Ninja Relationships. Really?

[CrabappleRed]

Captain Verd

I seriously doubt Orochimaru and Kabuto have anything going on. Orochimaru's too wrapped up in himself to care about anyone, and even though Kabuto dogs him alot, he has a hidden agenda. See the Orochimaru shower scene when Kabuto announces they're out of time.

I disagree. I never said it had to be a healthy, loving relationship. Just that there is one there. Orochimaru doesn't have to be gracious and loving towards Kabuto, because that doesnt seem to be what Kabuto wants. He admires Orochimaru deeply, says so several times. Orochimaru thinks Kabuto is smart and terribly useful. And there's a weird sort of playfulness in their banter. There's familiarity there, and an odd sort of equality you won't find in any of Orochimaru's other realtionships. I would not be at all surprised if there was a Master/Servant sort of sexual relationship there.

And despite Kabuto's hidden agenda, he's still all "you can use my body", etc, etc. Plus, I get the feeling that Orochimaru knows exactly what Kabuto's agenda is. Of course, Kabuto's hidden agenda could always be that uh, thing we find out about in the time skip.  

[Captain Verd]

CrabappleRed

I disagree. I never said it had to be a healthy, loving relationship. Just that there is one there. Orochimaru doesn't have to be gracious and loving towards Kabuto, because that doesnt seem to be what Kabuto wants. He admires Orochimaru deeply, says so several times. Orochimaru thinks Kabuto is smart and terribly useful. And there's a weird sort of playfulness in their banter. There's familiarity there, and an odd sort of equality you won't find in any of Orochimaru's other realtionships. I would not be at all surprised if there was a Master/Servant sort of sexual relationship there.

And despite Kabuto's hidden agenda, he's still all "you can use my body", etc, etc. Plus, I get the feeling that Orochimaru knows exactly what Kabuto's agenda is. Of course, Kabuto's hidden agenda could always be that uh, thing we find out about in the time skip.

Even though they have a master/servant relationship, I seriously doubt Orochimaru would bother with it, since he's so wrapped up with himself. Of course they're familiar with each other; they've basically lived in the same house/cave/lair for ten years. Also, alot of conversations between other characters in Naruto can be taken sexually. Like Sasuke and Naruto. They're not gay, but the way they talk, alot of people think they are.  

[CrabappleRed]

Captain Verd

Even though they have a master/servant relationship, I seriously doubt Orochimaru would bother with it, since he's so wrapped up with himself. Of course they're familiar with each other; they've basically lived in the same house/cave/lair for ten years. Also, alot of conversations between other characters in Naruto can be taken sexually. Like Sasuke and Naruto. They're not gay, but the way they talk, alot of people think they are.

Why wouldn't he bother with it, though? Seriously, self intrest doesn't mean he's asexual. In fact, a realtionship with Kabuto would be ideal, simply because Kabuto asks nothing more than to follow Orochimaru around. . . and for the ocasional dead body.

As for "well, it's just subtext", what about Zabuza and Haku? How far do you want to take this idea of "they must say they are in a relationship before I'll agknowledge it?" . I'm not being sarcastic, either. It's an important question. Because Orochimaru shows a level of respect and attachment to Kabuto he's shown only a few times elsewhere: Tsunade, and Sasuke. The relationship he has with Kabuto is deep and complicated, and considering Orochimaru's dubious heterosexuality, and Kabuto's blatant worship, it's not at all hard to imagine them going farther. They they havn't said anything concrete doesn't necessarily mean anything, since it's a shounen anime/manga and. . . well. I may not say the grass is green, but that doesn't mean it's purple instead, you know?

*shrug* it might not be hard canon, but it's a very possible, realistic relationship.  

[Captain Verd]

CrabappleRed

Why wouldn't he bother with it, though? Seriously, self intrest doesn't mean he's asexual. In fact, a realtionship with Kabuto would be ideal, simply because Kabuto asks nothing more than to follow Orochimaru around. . . and for the ocasional dead body.

As for "well, it's just subtext", what about Zabuza and Haku? How far do you want to take this idea of "they must say they are in a relationship before I'll agknowledge it?" . I'm not being sarcastic, either. It's an important question. Because Orochimaru shows a level of respect and attachment to Kabuto he's shown only a few times elsewhere: Tsunade, and Sasuke. The relationship he has with Kabuto is deep and complicated, and considering Orochimaru's dubious heterosexuality, and Kabuto's blatant worship, it's not at all hard to imagine them going farther. They they havn't said anything concrete doesn't necessarily mean anything, since it's a shounen anime/manga and. . . well. I may not say the grass is green, but that doesn't mean it's purple instead, you know?

*shrug* it might not be hard canon, but it's a very possible, realistic relationship.

Kabuto's "obvious worship" isn't as obvious as you think. He admires Orochimaru, but he's sticking with him to use that power for his own means. We're not sure what his hidden agenda is yet, but he definately wants Orochimaru's body to use as his own. Unlike Sasuke, who simply wants power, he probably thinks his mind is more strong-willed than Orochimaru's, which would enable him not only to keep the body but his mind as well. Kabuto knows Orochimaru is stronger than him, but he believes he's more cunning.

It's been made clear he's willing to do a number of things to get Orochimaru's body. In fact, he tried to kill Sasuke once to keep Orochimaru from using him instead. Trying to sabatoge your master's plan is anything but "obvious worship".

Haku and Zabuza's relationship is nothing like Orochimaru and Kabuto's. Orochimaru needs Kabuto far less than Zabuza needs Haku. Haku was far more dependant on Zabuza than Kabuto is on Orochimaru. If he felt like it, Kabuto could do anything he wanted and be fine with it. Haku needed to be needed, whereas Kabuto does not. Those two examples have hardly anything in common once you scratch the surface.  

[CrabappleRed]

Captain Verd

Kabuto's "obvious worship" isn't as obvious as you think. He admires Orochimaru, but he's sticking with him to use that power for his own means. We're not sure what his hidden agenda is yet, but he definately wants Orochimaru's body to use as his own. Unlike Sasuke, who simply wants power, he probably thinks his mind is more strong-willed than Orochimaru's, which would enable him not only to keep the body but his mind as well. Kabuto knows Orochimaru is stronger than him, but he believes he's more cunning.

It's been made clear he's willing to do a number of things to get Orochimaru's body. In fact, he tried to kill Sasuke once to keep Orochimaru from using him instead. Trying to sabatoge your master's plan is anything but "obvious worship".

Haku and Zabuza's relationship is nothing like Orochimaru and Kabuto's. Orochimaru needs Kabuto far less than Zabuza needs Haku. Haku was far more dependant on Zabuza than Kabuto is on Orochimaru. If he felt like it, Kabuto could do anything he wanted and be fine with it. Haku needed to be needed, whereas Kabuto does not. Those two examples have hardly anything in common once you scratch the surface.

I think what Kabuto says to Yamato makes it pretty obvious how much he worships Orochimaru. Not to mention the offering of his own body for Orochimaru's use. Though perhaps worship is the wrong word? Strong admiration would probably be better. He's not slavishly to Orochimaru, but he very much admires him and respects him, despite whatever other game he's playing.

And motives for whatever Kabuto might want to do doesn't cancel out the possibility of a relationship. Both of them already know the other knows they have hidden agendas. You can pick that up from what they say to each other. Why should it get in the way of sex? They'd still be mutualy using each other, enjoying a very pleasurable activity, and probably cementing power roles in their current relationship. Again, I never said it was healthy or loving, just that there seemed to be a very likly chance that it's there.

As for Zabuza and Haku, I know that their dynamic is totaly different. I just meant that they never come out and say "we are in love" or some such. They don't proclaim it. So, I was wondering how canon or possible you felt that relationship was, since you seem to feel that the lack of hard evidence (ie, declarations of "we're sexing each other up" or some such) seems to take away from the possibility of Orochimaru and Kabuto being 'together'.  

[Captain Verd]

CrabappleRed

I think what Kabuto says to Yamato makes it pretty obvious how much he worships Orochimaru. Not to mention the offering of his own body for Orochimaru's use. Though perhaps worship is the wrong word? Strong admiration would probably be better. He's not slavishly to Orochimaru, but he very much admires him and respects him, despite whatever other game he's playing.

And motives for whatever Kabuto might want to do doesn't cancel out the possibility of a relationship. Both of them already know the other knows they have hidden agendas. You can pick that up from what they say to each other. Why should it get in the way of sex? They'd still be mutualy using each other, enjoying a very pleasurable activity, and probably cementing power roles in their current relationship. Again, I never said it was healthy or loving, just that there seemed to be a very likly chance that it's there.

As for Zabuza and Haku, I know that their dynamic is totaly different. I just meant that they never come out and say "we are in love" or some such. They don't proclaim it. So, I was wondering how canon or possible you felt that relationship was, since you seem to feel that the lack of hard evidence (ie, declarations of "we're sexing each other up" or some such) seems to take away from the possibility of Orochimaru and Kabuto being 'together'.

Kabuto offered his body to Orochimaru for reasons I stated before. He's not offering his body so Orochimaru will live longer, he's offering it over because he wants it.

Yes, Kabuto admires Orochimaru. That doesn't mean he's having sex with him. Why wouldn't those things get in the way of sex? Kabuto doesn't want to bang Orochimaru, he wants to use him, and vice versa. Neither Orochimaru nor Kabuto has shown any interest in sex between the two of them or anyone else, so why would you infer that?

It looks like we're joined by the Count from Sesame Street!
One hopelessly devoted ninja
One ninja in need of acceptance
Two ninja find acceptance in each other
One ninja sacrifices his life for
One crying ninja
One apologizing ninja
One regretful ninja holding
One ninja's hand.

Kabuto isn't hopelessly devoted, nor would he sacrifice his life for Orochimaru. That's why he told Yamato and friends where Sasuke was. He doesn't care about Sasuke or how much Orochimaru needs him, and he certainly isn't going to die protecting either of them. In fact, he told Kimimaro he was crazy for doing so.  

[Syndactyly]

Neither of you have evidence. What's the point? gonk  

[attila the fun]

CrabappleRed

I think what Kabuto says to Yamato makes it pretty obvious how much he worships Orochimaru. Not to mention the offering of his own body for Orochimaru's use. Though perhaps worship is the wrong word? Strong admiration would probably be better. He's not slavishly to Orochimaru, but he very much admires him and respects him, despite whatever other game he's playing.

And motives for whatever Kabuto might want to do doesn't cancel out the possibility of a relationship. Both of them already know the other knows they have hidden agendas. You can pick that up from what they say to each other. Why should it get in the way of sex? They'd still be mutualy using each other, enjoying a very pleasurable activity, and probably cementing power roles in their current relationship. Again, I never said it was healthy or loving, just that there seemed to be a very likly chance that it's there.

As for Zabuza and Haku, I know that their dynamic is totaly different. I just meant that they never come out and say "we are in love" or some such. They don't proclaim it. So, I was wondering how canon or possible you felt that relationship was, since you seem to feel that the lack of hard evidence (ie, declarations of "we're sexing each other up" or some such) seems to take away from the possibility of Orochimaru and Kabuto being 'together'.

Okay, uh, I don't think Kabuto admires Orochimaru all that much. Actually, I'd place bets on Kabuto having much less respect for Orochimaru than you'd think. Kabuto is the second most--if not the most--manipulative character in the series, and also one of the most pragmatic. I can see where you're coming from, but these little incidences, like the time he thought about killing Sasuke, call everything he says most of the time into question.

That said, I don't think he'd dare get involved with Orochimaru that way, either. Not necessarily out of fear, but just to be cautious--and frankly, although I wouldn't call Orochimaru asexual, and he obviously isn't against using his subordinates, I think his mind is a little too one-track for him to be interested in them, really--and it seems more likely that he views Kabuto with a mix of approval, for his usefulness, and scorn, for his weakness. (See, again, that whole thing were Kabuto was going to kill Sasuke and Orochimaru was all LOL, yeah, you do that.)  

[churrlo]

Interesting debate ninja  

[okami_41]

wow, does it rly matter that much?  

[churrlo]

You underestimate the members of this guild xd  

[Syndactyly]

churrlo

You underestimate the members of this guild xd

Their ability to be stupid? Gah! I'm just so sick of arguing. It's... it's... so... so... annoying. mad

Their debate was pretty good, though. Too bad it ended. I wanted substance.  

[churrlo]

I agree... it's getting rather... troublesome xd  

[Syndactyly]

churrlo

I agree... it's getting rather... troublesome xd

MENDOKUSEE.

I used to say "troublesome" on occasion. Now I avoid it like the black plague to avoid being flamed. xd But one time at school I was saying something, and I couldn't think of another word; my friends and I roared in laughter. No one else got it.

"This is rather... rather... *ahem* Err... troublesome." xd  

[churrlo]

I couldn't resist ninja