Dating

[Redwing~Shadow]

The Bookwyrm

redwing_shadow

honestly...dating shouldnt make a difference. love is one of thgose things that just comes to you or comes out of nowhere. but ppl try to hard to have love so you see alot of relationships go bad. it all depends on if its the right person.

I agree that people try too hard, but I really wonder if it's a matter of finding the "right" person. I've found the "right" one, someone that I can communicate with effortlessly, someone that I love beyond reason and who loves me back, but I have to let him go. I have to sit back and watch him marry someone else, which could pose the argument that he's really not the right one, but something tells me I'll never find anything like him again.

Love is a whole lot of things, combined to be agonizingly rewarding when all's said and done, and like Midara and Poetic have both said it's not always sunshine and rainbows; there's an element of sacrifice involved, it's something that needs work after the initial act of "falling in love." In the end, it comes down to what you make it.

honeslt...we cant really say what love is...well you kinnda can but, its more related to actions then words...i cant even expalin...  

[Kain Wynd]

PoeticVengeance

Kain Wynd

Actually, I must disagree on the unconditional love statement.

When you are willing to do for a person something that you wouldn't do for anyone, and you are not weirded out by it, or you don't feel strange doing it, then you have obtained that unconditional love state.

In the concept of unconditional love, there are, essentially, no strings attached. There is no, "If you do this for me, then I will love you." There exists only the will to love each other, and to continue to love each other.

That wasn't really what I was getting at.

You see if a person changes radically (personality wise) that love is not workable anymore.

I'm sure you're familar with these two lines correct?

"You aren't the person I feel in love with!"

and

"I don't even know you anymore!"


They represent the basic idea that one condition that must remain true is that person you fell in love with remain at least similar to that personality.

If someone you loved changed so radically that you didn't even recognize them anymore (personality wise) could you honestly say it wouldn't impact your love for them?

I doubt it.

Quote:

The only true condition that there should be in a situation of love is the condition of love. If there are other conditions, things a person must do in order to receive love from another person, then that's not love. But if the only thing a person has to do to receive love from a person is love that person and maintain the will to love that person, then we have only one condition for love: love. And in that situation, it can be said that the couple has unconditional love for each other, because both express freely their wills to love each other, not being forced to.

Unconditional love is characterized by one word. Unconditional.

That means that there are no conditions, whatsoever, placed on that love. It means that even if that person's personality changed to the personality of Genghis Khan, or their body became a beaver, or they destroyed an entire planet for not so good reasons, you would still love them.

And you can claim that such things are unlikely, and would be considered ridiculous lengths to go to challenge a love, but the word "unconditional" itself is ridiculous.

If you make the statement that something has no conditions ever, then that allows people to enter into the absurd to explore that assumption, as that assumption is absurd in itself.

True love has very few conditions, and is certainly not dependant on actions. But it does have conditions (ones that are usually outside of our control and rarely come up).

Its important to know that, because sometimes those conditions do come up, and take love away. You need to be able to handle that if it happens.

Quote:

Relationships are work. Love is not. The test for whether or not you love someone is if you have the will to love them. If you are tired of being with a person and want to see other people, you may not feel as strongly about your situation as you perhaps, led your self and the other person to believe. All love asks is that you have the will to love.

I disagree, based on the words I have expressed above.

Love does require work to maintain the flame. Even true love will run into its low points.

And love does have conditions.

Quote:

And on the subject of love spells, they should be used to help bring together people who would have otherwise missed each other. Beyond that, the two must express a will to get to know the other person. It was the spell that made them meet each other, but everything after that is on their own steam, sans magic.

I agree to a certain extent, but really I prefer to handle things with my own capabilities instead of using spells if possible.

Call me naturalist, call me energy stingy, I just like to make sure that whatever energies I call and channeling I do leave a very light touch and no more then a light touch on my world.

Quote:

Love DOES NOT EQUAL Relationship. Again, relationships require work, but love does not.

I never said love equals relationships.

But I firmly disagree that love doesn't require work. You strike me as a little naive about human nature.

Quote:

twisted

O_o

And after all that, dear, all I can say is that we both have very different views on the subject, but I'll thank you to not insult me, calling me naive on the subject of human nature. That's just unfair.

And leave my choice of smilie alone. I like to add it to the end of my messages, not for any personality significance, but simply because I like it. razz

I'm allowed to be silly.

twisted  

[PoeticVengeance]

Kain Wynd

PoeticVengeance

Kain Wynd

Actually, I must disagree on the unconditional love statement.

When you are willing to do for a person something that you wouldn't do for anyone, and you are not weirded out by it, or you don't feel strange doing it, then you have obtained that unconditional love state.

In the concept of unconditional love, there are, essentially, no strings attached. There is no, "If you do this for me, then I will love you." There exists only the will to love each other, and to continue to love each other.

That wasn't really what I was getting at.

You see if a person changes radically (personality wise) that love is not workable anymore.

I'm sure you're familar with these two lines correct?

"You aren't the person I feel in love with!"

and

"I don't even know you anymore!"


They represent the basic idea that one condition that must remain true is that person you fell in love with remain at least similar to that personality.

If someone you loved changed so radically that you didn't even recognize them anymore (personality wise) could you honestly say it wouldn't impact your love for them?

I doubt it.

Quote:

The only true condition that there should be in a situation of love is the condition of love. If there are other conditions, things a person must do in order to receive love from another person, then that's not love. But if the only thing a person has to do to receive love from a person is love that person and maintain the will to love that person, then we have only one condition for love: love. And in that situation, it can be said that the couple has unconditional love for each other, because both express freely their wills to love each other, not being forced to.

Unconditional love is characterized by one word. Unconditional.

That means that there are no conditions, whatsoever, placed on that love. It means that even if that person's personality changed to the personality of Genghis Khan, or their body became a beaver, or they destroyed an entire planet for not so good reasons, you would still love them.

And you can claim that such things are unlikely, and would be considered ridiculous lengths to go to challenge a love, but the word "unconditional" itself is ridiculous.

If you make the statement that something has no conditions ever, then that allows people to enter into the absurd to explore that assumption, as that assumption is absurd in itself.

True love has very few conditions, and is certainly not dependant on actions. But it does have conditions (ones that are usually outside of our control and rarely come up).

Its important to know that, because sometimes those conditions do come up, and take love away. You need to be able to handle that if it happens.

Quote:

Relationships are work. Love is not. The test for whether or not you love someone is if you have the will to love them. If you are tired of being with a person and want to see other people, you may not feel as strongly about your situation as you perhaps, led your self and the other person to believe. All love asks is that you have the will to love.

I disagree, based on the words I have expressed above.

Love does require work to maintain the flame. Even true love will run into its low points.

And love does have conditions.

Quote:

And on the subject of love spells, they should be used to help bring together people who would have otherwise missed each other. Beyond that, the two must express a will to get to know the other person. It was the spell that made them meet each other, but everything after that is on their own steam, sans magic.

I agree to a certain extent, but really I prefer to handle things with my own capabilities instead of using spells if possible.

Call me naturalist, call me energy stingy, I just like to make sure that whatever energies I call and channeling I do leave a very light touch and no more then a light touch on my world.

Quote:

Love DOES NOT EQUAL Relationship. Again, relationships require work, but love does not.

I never said love equals relationships.

But I firmly disagree that love doesn't require work. You strike me as a little naive about human nature.

Quote:

twisted

O_o

And after all that, dear, all I can say is that we both have very different views on the subject, but I'll thank you to not insult me, calling me naive on the subject of human nature. That's just unfair.

I don't consider the word naive an insult. I'm naive about plenty of things. But if you found it offensive, I apologize for its usage.

But yes, it does appear that we do have radically different views.

Quote:

And leave my choice of smilie alone. I like to add it to the end of my messages, not for any personality significance, but simply because I like it. razz

I'm allowed to be silly.

twisted

lol, okay, I enjoy silly. I thought it had some kind of specific meaning, and was confused.  

[Kain Wynd]

It's not so much the word, it's more in its use. It's like a spoon. It can be an eating utensil, or a weapon, depending on the way its used (the context of its usage).

Stop thinking so much, dear. You'll get wrinkles. smile

twisted  

[PoeticVengeance]

Kain Wynd

It's not so much the word, it's more in its use. It's like a spoon. It can be an eating utensil, or a weapon, depending on the way its used (the context of its usage).

Well I apologize for any slight I may have caused you with its usage. It was not intended to wound.

Quote:

Stop thinking so much, dear. You'll get wrinkles. smile

Can't stop, its an addiction. And there's always Botox.

^^  

[Kain Wynd]

PoeticVengeance

Kain Wynd

It's not so much the word, it's more in its use. It's like a spoon. It can be an eating utensil, or a weapon, depending on the way its used (the context of its usage).

Well I apologize for any slight I may have caused you with its usage. It was not intended to wound.

Quote:

Stop thinking so much, dear. You'll get wrinkles. smile

Can't stop, its an addiction. And there's always Botox.

^^

Funny thing about Botox... It can also be an addiction.

Stop thinking so hard.

twisted  

[ratgirl34]

My first (and so far only) boy friend stopped talking to me because I started looking into witchcraft. See I was all for talking about it and understanding our differences and keeping the relationship. But he had just turned Christianand refused to talk about it, and since that's all either of us could think about... He never spoke to me untill one day while we were both on msn the following conversation took place:

him: Are we still dating?
Me: Yes, but I don't think it's working out.
him: Same here.

And it was over. Funny thing is... I wasn't heart broken one bit. I was freaking pissed when he immediately started dating some other girl. Nice girl, but he could have shown some respect for our relationship by waiting for a week or two...  

[Hitara the Brave]

I've had a discussion in my 4th period class about love spells.

Since Im the only wiccan in my class, they were asking me what kind of spells I do, and what I dont do.

Im against doin' love spells. I beleve magic shouldn't interfere with love.

And besides that, I use my magic for protection of myself and others.

My friend however, uses it for curses.

And she's actually killed a few people.

Each one got hit by a car eek

I keep tellin' her I hope I dont piss her off.

I have yet to.  

[Pelta]

redwing_shadow

my case was more of love at first sight....kinnda...yeah...that dosnt seem that common or true....

I've had love at first sight. Twice.

I hope it never happens again.

People here seem to be attempting to quantify love into some sort of attainable ideal. If we only know what it is and how it works we will somehow grasp it. Things can be a lot more complicated than that.

First of all, has anybody ennumerated the extreme problems with actually searching for love? Does anyone really go around thinking, "Ooh he looks like a good choice for a boyfriend, but he hangs with the wrong sort of crowd and has long hair. Guess I'll have to fall in love with someone else then..." Love simply does not work like that. Hell, if I had been able to choose like that I wouldn't have already gone through two horrendously abusive relationships.

We do not choose who we fall in love with. We choose who we date, but that can be passing and sometimes just as meaningless as a one night stand. And one night stands can be more meaningful than long relationships. Love is not something that lends itself well to comprehension or definition. Trying to stick it in a box, labelled, organised and happy simply does not work

Trying to keep it in a box or put it on a pedestal are rather futile too. Many talk about love as if it's a wondrous, happy attainment that everyone should strive for. Then why do romantics in books often die together? Does anyone really want to feel the pain that comes with love? No... Of course it's all just good stuff. People often forget that Juliet kills herself. Is that something you really want to strive for? So be careful what you wish for. I'd put away those rose quartz and rose petals and really think about whether you really want to fall in love. Cuz it's a lot harder to get rid of once it's got you.



I'm not entirely sure that answered any questions posed by the OP. As for relationships, my worst were with pagans. My best was with a Christian. Religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether someone's a good or bad person.  

[phantomkitsune]

1) Nope. Boyfriend and I are both Pagan.

2) The romantic relationship I had with a Christian ended badly, but I've wonderful friendships with people of various fatihs. It's their ability to accept different ideas more than anything else that makes us get along. And political views have tended to be more important that religion. . .

3) Love spells piss me off. They manipulate people and mess with free will. They don't work for the most part, and definitely won't ever work if I find out about them in my vicinity. evil  

[Kain Wynd]

Why is it that the only love spells people seem to think about are those that enchant a person to make them fall in love with someone they wouldn't normally?

There are different kinds of love spells, people.

There are some that help two people already in a relationship grow closer, there are some that help to put two people in the right place at the right time to meet each other, and there are some that help two people who already know each other and want to be with each other remove obstacles from their being together.

Love spells don't just force a person to love another against their will.

Love spells, do indeed work.  

[Kain Wynd]

missmagpie

redwing_shadow

my case was more of love at first sight....kinnda...yeah...that dosnt seem that common or true....

I've had love at first sight. Twice.

I hope it never happens again.

People here seem to be attempting to quantify love into some sort of attainable ideal. If we only know what it is and how it works we will somehow grasp it. Things can be a lot more complicated than that.

First of all, has anybody ennumerated the extreme problems with actually searching for love? Does anyone really go around thinking, "Ooh he looks like a good choice for a boyfriend, but he hangs with the wrong sort of crowd and has long hair. Guess I'll have to fall in love with someone else then..." Love simply does not work like that. Hell, if I had been able to choose like that I wouldn't have already gone through two horrendously abusive relationships.

We do not choose who we fall in love with. We choose who we date, but that can be passing and sometimes just as meaningless as a one night stand. And one night stands can be more meaningful than long relationships. Love is not something that lends itself well to comprehension or definition. Trying to stick it in a box, labelled, organised and happy simply does not work

Trying to keep it in a box or put it on a pedestal are rather futile too. Many talk about love as if it's a wondrous, happy attainment that everyone should strive for. Then why do romantics in books often die together? Does anyone really want to feel the pain that comes with love? No... Of course it's all just good stuff. People often forget that Juliet kills herself. Is that something you really want to strive for? So be careful what you wish for. I'd put away those rose quartz and rose petals and really think about whether you really want to fall in love. Cuz it's a lot harder to get rid of once it's got you.



I'm not entirely sure that answered any questions posed by the OP. As for relationships, my worst were with pagans. My best was with a Christian. Religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether someone's a good or bad person.

Dear, you sound bitter.

No, you can't quantify love and put it in a box and label it, but people do know who they're attracted to, and they hope that person likes them, too. It's immature, but it's how relationships happen.

And yes, people do think that the only love they'll have is one who fits into their view. But for those that are open to love from everywhere, they know that it may come in any form. But the truth remains, you only love (in the sense of two people being together emotionally) who you're attracted to.

As far as Romeo and Juliet, the two loved each other so much that they were willing to die for each other. Putting yoursel;f out there, and making yourself available to feel is the point. The fact that you took the risk of pain to be with a person, says something about how you feel about that person.  

[Pelta]

Kain Wynd

Dear, you sound bitter.

Please don't patronise me. Thanks. biggrin

Quote:

No, you can't quantify love and put it in a box and label it, but people do know who they're attracted to, and they hope that person likes them, too. It's immature, but it's how relationships happen.

It is indeed how relationships begin. That doesn't mean it's what keeps them together.

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But for those that are open to love from everywhere, they know that it may come in any form.

Oh I hope not! I'd hate to fall in love with a slug! xp

Quote:

But the truth remains, you only love (in the sense of two people being together emotionally) who you're attracted to.

Yes. Again, that is extremely true. I never said it wasn't. I just said it isn't necessarily nice, or a good thing.

Quote:

As far as Romeo and Juliet, the two loved each other so much that they were willing to die for each other. Putting yoursel;f out there, and making yourself available to feel is the point. The fact that you took the risk of pain to be with a person, says something about how you feel about that person.

Yes, it does. It means I was in love. In love enough to allow myself to be continuously destroyed. Is that really something anyone should strive for? And I know that comes off as bitter but I've been controlling this for quite some time. I'm a lot stronger now than I was. This is a cautionary post just to remind people that things aren't necessarily that great. Things can definately go very, very wrong.

Love is incredibly powerful. It can make people do the most insane things. It can reduce the highest people to the smallest wrecks, and the smallest people into kings. That's not exactly something to be messed with, or really sought for. I mean, how do you know what's going to happen to you? Which way is it going to go? Being closed off to love when you need to be is not a terrible sin. It's a rather careful move to allow yourself space to recuperate.

I'm not saying people shouldn't fall in love. Hell, I wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't. Just be careful what you wish for. It may damn well come true.  

[phantomkitsune]

Kain Wynd

Why is it that the only love spells people seem to think about are those that enchant a person to make them fall in love with someone they wouldn't normally?

Because those are the ones that are heard about most, and those are the sort I've had to deal with.

Kain Wynd

There are different kinds of love spells, people.

There are some that help two people already in a relationship grow closer, there are some that help to put two people in the right place at the right time to meet each other, and there are some that help two people who already know each other and want to be with each other remove obstacles from their being together.

Those can't be qualified exclusively as love spells, though. Searching for something is far different from coercing it. Few people who've approached me about love spells want to wait, or to look.

Kain Wynd

Love spells don't just force a person to love another against their will.

Love spells, do indeed work.

Love spells of that sort would be lovely.  

[The Bookwyrm]

missmagpie

Being closed off to love when you need to be is not a terrible sin. It's a rather careful move to allow yourself space to recuperate.

I'm not saying people shouldn't fall in love. Hell, I wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't. Just be careful what you wish for. It may damn well come true.

Excellent point; too many people try to define themselves through their relationships, and it's almost sickening; they simply jump from one relationship to another without giving themselves time to look back and see how it's affected them or what they're looking for. It's my so many relationships go wrong, IMO. I've been single for the past two years; it's given me a great deal of perspective to watch close friends in relationships and why those people have relationships with they people they do. It's been terrifying to see how adults can make such childish decisions.

I'm opening myself up again, finally, and likely setting myself up for another fall, but it's finally time for me to let myself love someone again. It's taken a long time, and it's taken a lot of me work, but I've worked out a lot of issues I've had that kept attracting the wrong sort of partner. I may attract a new sort of wrong partner, but at least it'll be an evil and I haven't tried before.

People do indeed have to fall in love, but I agree that that doesn't mean that they have to actively case it. I've seen enough one night stands and rebound relationships go sour to prove it. Put yourself out there when you're ready, but not before, and don't jump at the first person you feel a twinge of something for.