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Reply 51: Philosophy.
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Eros Conoirus

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:36 am
bluecherry

Oh no, I used the word "magician" correctly and purposefully in my above post. I would want really good magicians, illusionists, there to try to make sure you are not simply pulling a fast one on the scientists and merely tricking them with illusions. For just one example, as this was a test of gravity I was mentioning, the illusionist magician Chris Angel has done tricks where he appears to defy gravity, but they are still just tricks.

And by the way, I agree all ideas should be given consideration, and science DOES indeed give them consideration. Don't confuse things getting quickly eliminated (such as things that are logically impossible and absurd to the extreme, such as the FSM example of "the decline in the number of pirates causing global warming") with never being considered at all. And I'm glad you do agree with cell theory and germ theory of disease at least. xd I'd think your life might be in great danger if you didn't. I could imagine if you decided to go run around people with the Ebola virus because you didn't think there were germs you could catch. Really, they make sense is exactly the point. That's how science works over all, by trying to use what we do know, logic, and tests and exploration to find out more evidence all working together to see what makes sense. Science is entirely about finding the sense in the workings of the world to find truth. Sometimes that leads us to obvious conclusions, sometimes we find by following the facts that truth really is stranger than fiction. Some things may be harder for the average person to understand, but they do ultimately come down to what really does make sense. If something eventually comes up to show an old answer no longer makes sense, then you go back and work on the problem again factoring in this new evidence until you get what does make sense again. Science makes no claims of omnipotence. Nor omniscience. You can only work with what is possible (this includes the laws of physics and the things that cause apparent exceptions to them to come into play, you can't do this impossible, only find out new ways to do things in what is possible so that they may look like the impossible) and you can only work with what you know or try out what you suspect. Which is why expanding scientific knowledge is always good to do. It helps with accuracy.
And I've already stated that I personally do not know enough about "higher brain functioning" claims to be 100% positive about them, only that at this time I find them suspicious for their failures to be sufficiently demonstrable thus far under decent testing conditions as far as I myself have heard of. In fact, there's a million dollars up for grabs even to anybody who can do something similar to the challenge I gave you earlier, so in fact you don't have to take my Gaia stuff which is mere virtual value alone (though I was being entirely serious. As a question of reality I take it quite seriously. I'm not freaking out or anything, in fact I'm trying to keep this to a very civil and rational exchange. I just wanted to have some kind of possible reward up for grabs and to show my sincerity and commitment to the truth and to make it a little more interesting and desirable to actually try to prove your claims instead of just making them. Please do not mistake my zeal for stress), but a million dollars if you or anybody you know can demonstrate something of a "paranormal" nature sufficiently. See the challenge here. So far, many have tried, none have succeeded to live up to their claims in the test here. As for the Discovery channel thing, haven't seen it, maybe if it's on some time I'll watch it, but being on TV alone, even the Discovery channel, doesn't guarantee it is 100% reliable truth. Remember, the Discovery channel may be generally accurate and scientific, or at least try to be, but they are in the entertainment business in the end, so they may do things some times that are more for fun and to get viewers and not draw definitive conclusions because it may put off viewers. wink
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Hm, ok then...you do know that Criss Angel,<- the correct spelling of his stage name, has already stated that his acts of "illusion" were done by...oh what's this, oh yeah, meditation...what now? If you were at least a bit more than informed about Criss, or Christopher Sarantakos you probably would've known that on the DVD of the 1st or 2nd season, he explained that his acts of "illusion" such as teleportation and his "walking-on-water" stunt, not to mention his wood-chipper stunt as well, were done AFTER he had meditated. Oh and to combat your claims on how noone has ever succeeded in the "challenge".....there are reasons why nobody has ever been able to succeed in that challenge. Let me ask you something, if you were persecuted in the past for being a "freak" and having paranormal powers, would you risk being persecuted again for the sake of a million dollars..I mean think about the old saying "money can't buy happiness". There's also many, many witches with ESP who are oathbound by Wiccan covens, making it nearly impossible to either stake the claim that they have psychic powers or how they were even able to obtain psychic powers. Then there's the matter of skeptics. And to combat your blind faith in science, let me ask you one more thing before I digress and teach my students on my guild. Science cannot answer all..yet..but if they could, wouldn't they be seen as gods? All-knowing and all-seeing? The keepers of infinite knowledge? And yet they deny this? How daft can they possibly be? Riddle me that!  
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:37 pm

Actually, yes I do know that Chris Angel in particular likes to keep up a mystique, admit some of his stuff is illusion, but keep people questioning if maybe some of it isn't. He uses this to help draw interest in him. Again, it's a good marketing technique. As for if I had "powers": everybody pretty much gets persecuted for SOMETHING. It's not like I have nothing at all to be treated as a freak for. Been there, done that, decided the people doing the persecution were naught but assholes and moved on with my life as I saw fit anyway. So short of persecution to the point of having my life in imminent danger because of it, I know I could handle it. Also, I've already considered this situation and I long ago came to the conclusion that I'd like it, screw the assholes, and I'd gladly and freely head myself straight to being studied by science. So a million dollars for it to would just be even better. I would want to know what it was that made me work the way I did. I like knowing how I and the rest of the world operate in order to best handle them, react, adjust, and utilize them for the benefit of myself and those I care about. If the scientists found in their tests for some reason that I was not of the ability I thought I had I would first check myself again to be sure I really was correct in my thought that I could do something and then if I really was sure, move on and try to be tested again, maybe by other people. Go until we got to the bottom of it. And I would really think the presence of people skeptic about my claims was a GOOD sign. People just taking my word for it on a question of this nature and magnitude is no way to find out the truth at all. It takes an appropriate level of skepticality in order to approach any scientific question without bias to get a real factually sound answer.

LOL, no, scientists would NEVER be seen as gods. Knowing all about the way the world works would never give you the ability to do whatever you wanted. You'd still be human and limited by those rules you discovered. And they wouldn't "see all" either. Scientists by the sheer virtue of being scientists don't have little cameras all over the face of existence that they somehow manage to see all of at once. XP And even if they could why would they? They aren't interested at all in say, watching you do laundry. It has nothing to do with them and wouldn't help them figure anything out about the nature of the world generally. Well, unless you want to say you do your laundry via moving all the objects with just your mind and can demonstrate this for example. And again I must point out as I said earlier -- they ARE humans like the rest of us. Of course they are not all in perfect agreement about this matter instantly. If they DID know everything about how the world worked, then they would have settled this issue already. Until then disagreement and constant testing and skepticism is the healthy approach. If you or anybody else can get your abilities demonstrated well enough and to a wide enough audience (the wide amount of attention is to draw many different scientists in different areas with different opinions on the subject to investigate the claims and to hopefully then get them all to draw a general consensus) to become accepted as truth and then hopefully examined so we can understand how it works, then hey, great. I'd look into it myself gladly. May as well, it sounds like it could be fun/useful and I've already had people make claims to me that supposedly I do have some kind of such "abilities" and have done things before, so while I have every reason for now to find the claims to be silly, if it were shown that such things were definite reality, then I'd love to see if there was indeed be more to those claims.
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bluecherry
Vice Captain


CheKage

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:24 pm
Wow wow wo there guys. Let's end this riot once and for all! Criss Angel or whatever his name is spelled like, has admited on youtube that his tricks were realy tricks. He probably meditated, but he still made trick with holes in his pants. Search on YouTube, please. And bluecherry didn't try to offend you. This is just a debate as you said. Please, if you want to say your different opinions, please tell them without arguing! We are by "normal standards" "smart, rational people" Homo Sapiens Sapiens! Please, stop emanating this negative energy! You are both right! Don't wreck your standards and lower them to madmans' way of life. Thank you!  
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:57 am
I know what you are talking about. You are talking about ESP. But why bring the Matrix Theory in? Yes they may be related a bit but...
Anyway:
1. ESP is possible to develop, though it doesn't work for 100% of the people. I myself try to develop my ESP. Tough we don't know how, most of the time it works. It can be used to double the capacity of the brain. In our case, we already using our brain regurarly, will be able to accumulate inforation even faster. BUT ESP HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN BY ANY KNOWN SCIENTIST, so bluecherry has a lot of reasons to do not trust it.
2. MAGICK has not been known to be proven by any known scientist either. neutral Ifmy magick or however you call it you don't mean The Matrix Theory or ESP, or the theory that says that everything is vibration, I don't know what you are talking about, so please post a document on what are you talking about and give us credible proof.
3. Please, post what is your exact view of the universe in detaioled sentences.
Thank you for your patience!
 

CheKage

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51: Philosophy.

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