Tolkien Q&A and Informative Thread -Open!

[Thranduil_of_Greenwood]

I believe I may be of service of the wizards. And dark elves.
First of all thank you very much for you kind words.
Now the wizards were known as the Istari, they were Maiar. They were sent by the Valar to Middle Earth in the Third Age. There is much that is not clear about them. But there were five.. Saruman the White who had been a Maia of Aule, Gandalf the Grey/ later white who was a Maia of Manwe, Radagast the Brown who was a Maia of Yavanna, and the two blue wizards Alatar and Pallando Maiar of Orome. Not much is known of these two because they wandered off into the east and were never heard from again. whether they were killed or switched sides, or anything else is unknown. Saruman of course was killed, Radagast turned away from his cause and was forsaken, Alatar and Pallando never heard from again. So basically the only one who kept to their mission and returned to the Valar when it was over was Gandalf. This might also explain why he was brought back after the balrog fight. Manwe sent him back because he had not finished his mission yet.

And as for Dark Elves. Elves that were twisted into orcs, and I could be incorrect but I believe only Morgoth could do this, were just orcs. They have nothing to do with Dark Elves nor were they referred to as dark elves because they ceased to be elves. The term "Dark Elf" is used in two instances in Tolkien's work. First to the Moriquendi, elves who never saw the Trees of Valinor. This applies to three races of Elves, the Avari, the unwilling ( they became the orcs but were not classified as dark elves for that), The Sindar (The Elves of Doriath), and the Nandor who became for the most part the elves of Lothlorien and Mirkwood (excluding a few elves like Galadrial). Of course they aren't called dark elves really nor are they thought of them. The only real dark elf was Eol, who just went creepy on everyone.

Edit: FIRST PAGE BREAK CELEBRATION!!! *throws confettii* razz  

[Thrain Okensheild]

Ya well nicely put my friend i was about to post somthing along theose lines but you beat me to it.  

[Aeliara]

This is such a wonderful reference! You have an incredible amount of patience.  

[Thranduil_of_Greenwood]

Aeliara

This is such a wonderful reference! You have an incredible amount of patience.

^__^ Hannon le  

[Pwale]

(Whistles appreciatively)

That's something else, it really is.

(Remembers all those volumes and volumes of LOTR books other then the main series that have horrible depressing introductions that make poor girls like me cry...and winces)  

[Thrain Okensheild]

Thank You we realy apprieceate it. *bows deeply beard sweeping the floor*  

[mage_justarius]

The five Istari's names are in Unfinished Tales (is that the right name?).  

[Thranduil_of_Greenwood]

Yes.. I suppose, why? I gave their names in the post at the top of the page.
Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando  

[Lady Pole]

I thought I remembered a quote from The Silmarillion where Tolkien makes the point that the Elves got into trouble when they attached too much importance to their creations. Worshipping the work of their own hands or something like that. Can anyone find it for me?  

[Lady Pole]

Thranduil_of_Greenwood

I believe I may be of service of the wizards. And dark elves.
First of all thank you very much for you kind words.
Now the wizards were known as the Istari, they were Maiar. They were sent by the Valar to Middle Earth in the Third Age. There is much that is not clear about them. But there were five.. Saruman the White who had been a Maia of Aule, Gandalf the Grey/ later white who was a Maia of Manwe, Radagast the Brown who was a Maia of Yavanna, and the two blue wizards Alatar and Pallando Maiar of Orome. Not much is known of these two because they wandered off into the east and were never heard from again. whether they were killed or switched sides, or anything else is unknown. Saruman of course was killed, Radagast turned away from his cause and was forsaken, Alatar and Pallando never heard from again. So basically the only one who kept to their mission and returned to the Valar when it was over was Gandalf. This might also explain why he was brought back after the balrog fight. Manwe sent him back because he had not finished his mission yet.

When Gandalf refers to his "order," it gives the impression that there are enough Wizards to need more than one "order". What do you think he might have meant? The Istari as an order within the Maiar?  

[Thrain Okensheild]

Lady Pole

I thought I remembered a quote from The Silmarillion where Tolkien makes the point that the Elves got into trouble when they attached too much importance to their creations. Worshipping the work of their own hands or something like that. Can anyone find it for me?

I can't tell you because I dont have the book. stressed but that does sound more like Dwarf's, all though that could also be my remebering of the wrong thing.(can't spell)  

[beaulolais]

i wonder about Dunland

it seems to exist outside the old Numenorean kingdoms by itself.

but isn't it a relic of an older land?

is there any trace of that older civilization there?  

[Thranduil_of_Greenwood]

Sorry preparing for highschool graduation has been pulling me around. Okay in order asked.
Lady Pole, the whole of The Silmarillion is pretty much about that sort of problem. The elves got far too attached to the Silmarils which caused alot of trouble and bloodshed and in some cases defience of the Valar. Though the only works of the elves at the time that were really worshipped to the point of being dangerous were the Silmarils and not really anything else.
As for the "order" of the Istari he refers to all five of them. I believe they could be counted as an order within the Maiar because they were sent down together into Middle Earth for a special purpose. By order it is also shown that there are rankings, such as "White" being the highest and most powerful, where the others follow in due rank. "Grey" and then "Brown" and "Blue".

beauloais- It does doesn't it, not much is written of it. They were a war like people and "blood-enemies" of the Rohirrim. I don't know how much purpose they would have other then just being a race adding to the depth of Arda.  

[Thrain Okensheild]

A land in the eastern regions of the Enedwaith, beneath the southern Misty Mountains. Its warlike inhabitants were known as Dunlendings, blood-enemies of the Rohirrim.



1 Dunland was founded by Hill-men travelling northward from the White Mountains during the Dark Years, which places its foundation during the Second Age. We also know that it did not exist at the time when the Númenóreans began their exploitation of Middle-earth in about II 1800, so it must have come into existence within a few centuries of this date.

2 At different times in its history, Dunland played host to colonies of Stoor Hobbits, and to Longbeard Dwarves, but it was always a primarily Mannish settlement.

Thats form the The Encyclopedia of Arda