From where do you learn grammar?

[Ame Yuki Kaze]

I learned it by asking my parents, both of whom know their grammar inside and out and backwards.

 

[Kukushka]

YasuoIV

I read immensely. I read a lot of Anne Mccaffrey, Issac Asimov, and when I was only nine years old, I read the Hobbit, that's the book I chose to do my Grade four book report on, I got a 100% Most students chose books like "Arthur" , and yet I read, and did a report on what was supposedly a Grade 11 book.

Continuing my crusade against the current state of the education system...

I was always way ahead of my reading age. When I was in the equivalent of grade 5, I wrote a book report on Christopher Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. My teacher gave me a failing grade and said "you are too old to have your parents write your essays for you." My parents appealed the grade since they are certainly not the type to ever help me with my schoolwork, but the school board decided that it was not possible for a child my age to have read and understood the play. Therefore, it was impossible for it to be my own work.

Impossible...

I suppose they've forgotten what kids that age would have been reading a mere century before?

And the Hobbit as a grade 11 book? It was written as a children's novel! I read that with my parents when I was very little and just learning to read. It's Lord of the Rings that are supposed to be for teens.  

[MadnessFreak]

I don't know the rules. I'm just not a retarded dumbass. :]  

[Lekonua]

abarrach

Okay, I think we've established that grammar isn't being taught in school well enough, if at all. So, that begs the question, where do you grammarians who are still in school learn the rules of grammar?

I can see how you can acquire some of the skills through osmosis by reading a lot, but that doesn't account for knowing the rules and the vocabulary used to describe the rules... at least not unless you're reading grammar references.

Grammar is being taught well enough. The problem is the fact that so few people care about it. It's not the teacher's fault.

You can assign homework, tests and daily reading from a text book, but you can't force anyone to actually give a crap about the subject. That's how I am with math. If I cared about it I could be the best mathematician in the world, but I don't care about it, so I don't learn it as well.

Regardless, should not a class of 9th graders already know the proper uses of a comma, period, colon etc.? I was in an advanced class, but got taken out when I couldn't keep my grade at B level (too many assignments, I didn't turn enough of 'em in. It wasn't because I was stupid or anything.) I got put in a regular English class, and the teacher was going on about commas and periods for the whole period! Ridiculous!

I was absolutely insulted by the school's assumption that a 14-15 year old did not know how to punctuate a sentence. evil  

[abarrach]

Lekonua

abarrach

Okay, I think we've established that grammar isn't being taught in school well enough, if at all. So, that begs the question, where do you grammarians who are still in school learn the rules of grammar?

I can see how you can acquire some of the skills through osmosis by reading a lot, but that doesn't account for knowing the rules and the vocabulary used to describe the rules... at least not unless you're reading grammar references.

Grammar is being taught well enough. The problem is the fact that so few people care about it. It's not the teacher's fault.

You can assign homework, tests and daily reading from a text book, but you can't force anyone to actually give a crap about the subject. That's how I am with math. If I cared about it I could be the best mathematician in the world, but I don't care about it, so I don't learn it as well.

Regardless, should not a class of 9th graders already know the proper uses of a comma, period, colon etc.? I was in an advanced class, but got taken out when I couldn't keep my grade at B level (too many assignments, I didn't turn enough of 'em in. It wasn't because I was stupid or anything.) I got put in a regular English class, and the teacher was going on about commas and periods for the whole period! Ridiculous!

I was absolutely insulted by the school's assumption that a 14-15 year old did not know how to punctuate a sentence. evil

Well, I said it wasn't being taught because I saw a number of people saying that it wasn't being taught. I wasn't relying on the crappy grammar all over gaia. I guess it varies from school to school...

There are some 30 year olds who don't know how to punctuate.  

[abarrach]

Kukushka

YasuoIV

I read immensely. I read a lot of Anne Mccaffrey, Issac Asimov, and when I was only nine years old, I read the Hobbit, that's the book I chose to do my Grade four book report on, I got a 100% Most students chose books like "Arthur" , and yet I read, and did a report on what was supposedly a Grade 11 book.

Continuing my crusade against the current state of the education system...

I was always way ahead of my reading age. When I was in the equivalent of grade 5, I wrote a book report on Christopher Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. My teacher gave me a failing grade and said "you are too old to have your parents write your essays for you." My parents appealed the grade since they are certainly not the type to ever help me with my schoolwork, but the school board decided that it was not possible for a child my age to have read and understood the play. Therefore, it was impossible for it to be my own work.

Impossible...

I suppose they've forgotten what kids that age would have been reading a mere century before?

And the Hobbit as a grade 11 book? It was written as a children's novel! I read that with my parents when I was very little and just learning to read. It's Lord of the Rings that are supposed to be for teens.

Umm... couldn't they have tested you on the contents of the book? Did you not do other work of the same calibre before? Do they not know how you work? I can't imagine this was the first time they've encountered a student like you if they've taught before.  

[Once Was]

I didn't learn to read until I was in second grade. And it wasn't the school that taught me. I went to tutoring and then I was taught the words but not how to comprehend(Sp?) what I was reading. I stopped learning grammar in 8th grade I think. Sometimes in high school we go over it but not really. My senior project teacher brings it up and asks about parts of speech, and I just look at her like 'what are you talking about?'. And I do blame my school system. Because like I said, they don't teach it. I make mistakes on grammar because of stuff I wasn't taught, so I end up with grades that are B's and C's. But what I do learn is just what I remember from middle and grade school or the times I go to my teachers and ask them. I just love to learn so I randomly ask them questions about stuff we aren't learning in school. Grammar, spelling, and comprehension follow under that as well.  

[red_moon_wolfess]

Kukushka

Continuing my crusade against the current state of the education system...

I was always way ahead of my reading age. When I was in the equivalent of grade 5, I wrote a book report on Christopher Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. My teacher gave me a failing grade and said "you are too old to have your parents write your essays for you." My parents appealed the grade since they are certainly not the type to ever help me with my schoolwork, but the school board decided that it was not possible for a child my age to have read and understood the play. Therefore, it was impossible for it to be my own work.

Impossible...

I suppose they've forgotten what kids that age would have been reading a mere century before?

And the Hobbit as a grade 11 book? It was written as a children's novel! I read that with my parents when I was very little and just learning to read. It's Lord of the Rings that are supposed to be for teens.

your kidding me? 11th grade book? The hobbit?! I got that for christmas when I was seven! I read it and did a book report on it later that school year! I still remember all the nursery rhyme riddles!

Seriously, I think that education in the English department is declining if the hobbit has become an advanced read.  

[applecyder]

'A verb is an action word.'

I still remember that from first grade. Everything in English during first grade revolved around grammar.

My mom read bedtime stories to me ever since I was little (not just sanitized fairy tales) so I became interested in reading at an early age. That must explain why I wear glasses burning_eyes  

[Killer Dwarf]

I think I learned what I know from books.

Because I'm not such a hawkeye in the language arts classroom.

I stand by my opinion that I can speak and write well enough to get my point across, and trying to delve deeper and naming absolutely every word I write, every group of words I write and every sentence I write.

I think it's a little unnecessary.  

[GirlPuck]

Although I was taught grammer in elementary school, I would never be able to tell you the names of different parts of grammer. I can use it well, mostly from seeing it used in all the books I read (and I am actually I horrible grammer nazi) but I would be unable to teach grammer to someone else.

I think part of the problem is that grammer is taught too early. I know that having things like the multiplication tables drilled into you at a young age works, but I think that maybe grammer is a bit complexe for most first or second grade children to comprehend. Perhaps if we learned grammer as young children and were then retaught the basics of it in junior high, we would all be better writers.

Even my younger brother makes fun of me for not knowing the difference between an adjective and an adverb (it makes French class a little awkward too, but I manage). Even so there are worse than myself out there. I tutor a student who cannot structure a sentence without serious help, and he's in grade 10!

It truly is sad that our schools are turning out students who wouldn't know a pronoun if it hit them in the face (and I lump myself into this category too, I know the terms but not their definitions).  

[abarrach]

GirlPuck

Although I was taught grammer in elementary school, I would never be able to tell you the names of different parts of grammer. I can use it well, mostly from seeing it used in all the books I read (and I am actually I horrible grammer nazi) but I would be unable to teach grammer to someone else.

I think part of the problem is that grammer is taught too early. I know that having things like the multiplication tables drilled into you at a young age works, but I think that maybe grammer is a bit complexe for most first or second grade children to comprehend. Perhaps if we learned grammer as young children and were then retaught the basics of it in junior high, we would all be better writers.

Even my younger brother makes fun of me for not knowing the difference between an adjective and an adverb (it makes French class a little awkward too, but I manage). Even so there are worse than myself out there. I tutor a student who cannot structure a sentence without serious help, and he's in grade 10!

It truly is sad that our schools are turning out students who wouldn't know a pronoun if it hit them in the face (and I lump myself into this category too, I know the terms but not their definitions).

I think you're on to something here. I don't think the problem is that they teach grammar too early so much as that they don't reinforce what they taught later on. They seem to think it's sufficient to teach it once. They don't build on it or do anything to practice what was taught. Whereas, multiplication is used constantly, you can't escape from it in math class.  

[Zombielight]

Well, I learned all my good grammar in school. Mostly high school though, not too much in middle school and elementary.  

[RiseToRebellion]

After witnessing the atrocious lack of any understanding of the English language and its rules, a group of seniors at my high school started Grammar Club.

No, I am not joking. I was one of those who pushed for the club to start.

That's probably where I've learned a decent amount about grammar, although I do remember some from grammar books in middle school, and in corrections my English teachers made to my papers throughout high school.

Also, I would concur and say that I learned a lot from reading many books in various different writing styles.  

[Miradora]

Grammar was part of language arts for me all the way through 9th grade. We had to "diagram" sentences. I don't know if schools do that any more, but it was like turning a sentence into a puzzle. Each word had a special place in the diagram depending upon its part of speech and how it related to the other words. My 7th grade teacher used to make the whole class diagram an extra-long and complex sentence for punishment. I happened to LOVE disgramming sentences, so it wasn't a punishment for me.

The thing that really cemented my knowledge of grammar was studying foreign languages. I think that U.S. schools would give a big boost to students' knowledge of grammar by requiring the study of a foreign language.

Playing with language and words can be fun. I've taught bilingual students in kindergarten and first grade, and we may not call it "grammar" but we explore how words are used and how sentences are put together.