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The Dead Terrorist Achmed
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 Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:01 am
Zaaki And if you think your a child of god, then u are also a god? lol
According to Christian belief, from what I could gather as an outsider, was that the term "children of God" meant that God was caring and loving and tender to his followers...not like the harsh punishing God of the Jews. People attributed God with "father-like" and "mother-like" qualities with the coming of Christianity.
....servant of God sounds harsher.....you don't love a servant the way you would your own child. That's i think what Ratri was trying to say.
If i was wrong, Ratri, feel free to correct me.
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:30 am
The Dead Terrorist Achmed Zaaki And if you think your a child of god, then u are also a god? lol
According to Christian belief, from what I could gather as an outsider, was that the term "children of God" meant that God was caring and loving and tender to his followers...not like the harsh punishing God of the Jews. People attributed God with "father-like" and "mother-like" qualities with the coming of Christianity.
....servant of God sounds harsher.....you don't love a servant the way you would your own child. That's i think what Ratri was trying to say.
If i was wrong, Ratri, feel free to correct me.
When you say you are a "servant of God" the term had a negative connotation, meaning, it sounds...unpleasant. If you are a servant, you are subject to your master's whims and obey out of reparation, not out of love. That's why Christians use the term "children of God".
We don't want to obey God because we fear punishment or desire an amazing afterlife. That's the wrong way to follow God's Word. You should follow God's Word because you love Him and respect him.
...that's how we view it anyways.
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:02 am
Ratri_Cat The Dead Terrorist Achmed Zaaki And if you think your a child of god, then u are also a god? lol
According to Christian belief, from what I could gather as an outsider, was that the term "children of God" meant that God was caring and loving and tender to his followers...not like the harsh punishing God of the Jews. People attributed God with "father-like" and "mother-like" qualities with the coming of Christianity.
....servant of God sounds harsher.....you don't love a servant the way you would your own child. That's i think what Ratri was trying to say.
If i was wrong, Ratri, feel free to correct me.
When you say you are a "servant of God" the term had a negative connotation, meaning, it sounds...unpleasant. If you are a servant, you are subject to your master's whims and obey out of reparation, not out of love. That's why Christians use the term "children of God".
We don't want to obey God because we fear punishment or desire an amazing afterlife. That's the wrong way to follow God's Word. You should follow God's Word because you love Him and respect him.
...that's how we view it anyways.but the master also loves his servant? if your are gonna say that it happens with few people that they love their servants then i would say that there are parents who do not love their children... what you would say on that?
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:03 pm
tassan but the master also loves his servant? tassan if your are gonna say that it happens with few people that they love their servants then i would say that there are parents who do not love their children... what you would say on that?
I'm talking about God being a caring loving parent. Not a Master. I believe God is rather different from us humans and would not abandon us. You're taking my words out of context
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:03 am
Ratri_Cat tassan but the master also loves his servant? But i will love my children and Servants the same! thats what Muslims are taught! and other thing if You are differentiating b/w human and God then i think using the comparison of love is useless as well!! Allah loves us 1000 times more then our mother. alternately we do not say exactly same as a mother but more than that.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:03 am
Salam everyone,
First of all, I think that Islam is not weird, people are weird. It's the society's fault, not Islam's fault.
But then here comes the real argument. We are really Allah's servants, let me tell you why. He's the one who created us, he's the one who is worthy to be worshiped, and he's the one who's going to punish us.
But Allah is different from any other lord, he's so loving and caring, he is willing to forgive us for our sins, he loves us, and cares about us. That's why he gives us many chances to believe in him and do good deeds. He always will accept our prayers, and answer what we want. He'll always guild us and help us. Is that like any other lord?
In my opinion, I worship God because I love him, because he's the most merciful! I won't be ashamed to be called his servant, I'll be so proud. Because he's not like any other lord. That's what I think of!
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:49 am
tassan But i will love my children and Servants the same! thats what Muslims are taught!
I'm speaking from a woman's and (possibly) mother's perspective (though I really hope not). Giving birth, going through pregnancy for 9 odd months....that is a unique bond that a mother forms with her child and not with any other being. It's something that no one else can have. I'm talking about in general, not the ones that have unwanted children. tassan and other thing if You are differentiating b/w human and God then i think using the comparison of love is useless as well!! Allah loves us 1000 times more then our mother. tassan alternately we do not say exactly same as a mother but more than that.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:13 pm
Ok, first of all, Allah is not like any other creature, he's something else no one can imagine. So you can't compare his love with a mother's love. Because eventually it is Allah who created a mother and put a baby in her womb! He's the one who made this bond between a mother and he baby. So, you can't say that we're Allah's children, because Allah loves us more than if we were his children! He loves us in a way that no one can imagine. As a proof, he's willing to forgive our sins, no matter how big they are. As you just say, O Allah forgive me. He will forgive it! Why then do we argue on how much Allah loves us? Whether if Allah loves us as his children or servants. Allah's love for us is unimaginable! And you should not compare it to any human emotions, because everything in Allah is different.
But the phrase Servant or Children, it doesn't matter. But we call ourselves his servants, because we have no power compared to his power, and Allah says that he didn't take a wife or children. So who are we to say that we are his Children?!
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:47 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, first of all, Allah is not like any other creature, he's something else no one can imagine.
dear lord, do you not understand alliteration when you hear it?
Of course we Catholics know God is different and so much more powerful and all that jazz. So we use human attributes to better describe him. Because he is beyond our comprehension
Like a mother's love. When we say this, we are referring to the undying love and help and mercy that God gives to us. That God loves us no matter what (and that's how mothers should and ought to be).Mini_Angel_1994 But the phrase Servant or Children, it doesn't matter. But we call ourselves his servants, because we have no power compared to his power, and Allah says that he didn't take a wife or children. So who are we to say that we are his Children?!
It's a matter of style of belief. You call yourselves servants of God, because you fear and submit to his power. It's not wrong to fear him, no, but the fact of the matter is that it seems impossible to establish a personal relationship with God when you put yourselves in that position.
Yeah God loves us unconditionally. I'd rather have a warm bond born out of respect for God's awesome might than fear of reprisal.
That's why Christians call themselves children of God. We believe that we should respect and fear God, but not out of being scared of punished and desiring of rewards. We want to call God our Father, our Friend, our Love; we're not like the Jews of ancient times that did what they did out of avoiding punishment and trying to earn pleasure. We do good because we want to have a good relationship with God. I like being called a 'child of God'. I don't feel like I'm worshiping some deity that is watching me from behind the stars. I feel his presence without praying. I feel the power of God through daily interactions. And that, is something I will always cherish. And no amount of ignorant talking from any religion will make me change that.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:11 am
Ratri_Cat Mini_Angel_1994 Ok, first of all, Allah is not like any other creature, he's something else no one can imagine.
dear lord, do you not understand alliteration when you hear it?
Of course we Catholics know God is different and so much more powerful and all that jazz. So we use human attributes to better describe him. Because he is beyond our comprehension
Like a mother's love. When we say this, we are referring to the undying love and help and mercy that God gives to us. That God loves us no matter what (and that's how mothers should and ought to be).Mini_Angel_1994 But the phrase Servant or Children, it doesn't matter. But we call ourselves his servants, because we have no power compared to his power, and Allah says that he didn't take a wife or children. So who are we to say that we are his Children?!
It's a matter of style of belief. You call yourselves servants of God, because you fear and submit to his power. It's not wrong to fear him, no, but the fact of the matter is that it seems impossible to establish a personal relationship with God when you put yourselves in that position.
Yeah God loves us unconditionally. I'd rather have a warm bond born out of respect for God's awesome might than fear of reprisal.
That's why Christians call themselves children of God. We believe that we should respect and fear God, but not out of being scared of punished and desiring of rewards. We want to call God our Father, our Friend, our Love; we're not like the Jews of ancient times that did what they did out of avoiding punishment and trying to earn pleasure. We do good because we want to have a good relationship with God. I like being called a 'child of God'. I don't feel like I'm worshiping some deity that is watching me from behind the stars. I feel his presence without praying. I feel the power of God through daily interactions. And that, is something I will always cherish. And no amount of ignorant talking from any religion will make me change that. I'm honored that you feel this way, and it's something in common between us and you , Ratri. However, as I said Allah said that he didn't take a wife or children. So in order not to fall in sin, we call ourselves his servants. I love Allah, I love him, I just would do anything for him. Isn't that what you do for someone you love? You'd just go with him in anyway he wants. So, that what us muslims do. We love Allah, we wear Hijab for Allah, we pray for Allah, we fast for Allah. Allah loves me, I love him back, but loves means nothing without action. As he loved me, he created me in a muslim family, and gave me this great mother and father, and even my grandfather ( May Allah's mercy be upon him ) is the greatest man ever, he made me in this family, I'm greatful, then he just made for me alot, he presented me with a life which is full of science, I'm born in full health, I have no killing sicknesses, I'm feel that he just guilded me to the right path. And I'm so greatful, he did all of this stuff for me, and I'm the one who should be worshipping him? That's Allah actions that prove to us that he loves us! And in my turn, I'll do some actions that prove that I love him. Anyways Ratri, even if you're not convinced with what I have to say, I sure only have one thing to ask from Allah, ( May Allah guild you to the right path, and have you believe the truth, and keep Shaytan away, O Allah please accept ).
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:14 am
Mini_Angel_1994 However, as I said Allah said that he didn't take a wife or children. So in order not to fall in sin, we call ourselves his servants.
we call ourselves children of God to describe the type of bond we have with God. How is that a sin?
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:24 am
Ratri_Cat Mini_Angel_1994 However, as I said Allah said that he didn't take a wife or children. So in order not to fall in sin, we call ourselves his servants.
we call ourselves children of God to describe the type of bond we have with God. How is that a sin?How do you say that you know that God didn't say he took a wife, then how was Jesus made? I'm really getting confused..
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:18 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 How do you say that you know that God didn't say he took a wife, then how was Jesus made? I'm really getting confused..
Scriptures and Catholic Tradition teach otherwise.
From what we know, it was through the Will of God that the Virgin Mary, the Blessed Mother, conceived Jesus without intercourse with another man.
How is it possible? With God, anything is possible.
We never said that God took a wife. Even though we don't take the Scriptures literally, nothing has ever supported that. not one bit.
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:53 am
Ratri_Cat Mini_Angel_1994 How do you say that you know that God didn't say he took a wife, then how was Jesus made? I'm really getting confused..
Scriptures and Catholic Tradition teach otherwise.
From what we know, it was through the Will of God that the Virgin Mary, the Blessed Mother, conceived Jesus without intercourse with another man.
How is it possible? With God, anything is possible.
We never said that God took a wife. Even though we don't take the Scriptures literally, nothing has ever supported that. not one bit. Islam believes in that too. That the Virgin Mary conceived Jesus without the intercourse with another man. But we didn't say that Jesus is the son of God, or he's God himself. I can't seem to understand how did you get this idea? ( Jesus is God in flesh, or he's the son of God ) Islam believes that Jesus didn't get crossified, but Allah made a guy who just looks like Jesus, and he lifted Jesus to the sky. And prophet Mohammad (PBUH) met him in the journey to the sky ( Isra' and Al me'raj ) And he'll get down to earth in the future (Which is the sign of the jugdement day). That's all in Hadith and Quran. But the idea of Jesus being God in Flesh, didn't come in any book. And you previously said that you didn't take Bible litterly. So the idea of Jesus being God in Flesh, is just from your mind? Or did it come in any other book? And if so, how did it come to your generation? Like, from grandfather to grandson? And how do you know that Jesus said that he's God in flesh? ( I'm taking the idea that you don't take Bible litterly as a base for my questions ). You can't just believe in a part of a bible, and leave another part of it?
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:08 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 Islam believes in that too. That the Virgin Mary conceived Jesus without the intercourse with another man. But we didn't say that Jesus is the son of God, or he's God himself. I can't seem to understand how did you get this idea? ( Jesus is God in flesh, or he's the son of God )
Mini_Angel_1994 Islam believes that Jesus didn't get crossified, but Allah made a guy who just looks like Jesus, and he lifted Jesus to the sky. And prophet Mohammad (PBUH) met him in the journey to the sky ( Isra' and Al me'raj ) And he'll get down to earth in the future (Which is the sign of the jugdement day). That's all in Hadith and Quran. Mini_Angel_1994 But the idea of Jesus being God in Flesh, didn't come in any book.
If it's the Jews, more's the pity, because they don't acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.
If it's our Scriptures (from the Qu'ran) even more of a pity, since you don't have our complete scriptures and are acting like a protestant debating with a catholic about the "extra" books in the bible.
If it's the Catholic Canon that you are talking about, then you haven't read the entire New Testament.
Check my hyperlink. It has biblical quotes in it. So does my Catechism link down at the bottom of my post. If you want more, feel free to ask...since y'know, the New Testament is kinda dedicated to that central idea and branched off of it... *sigh*
Mini_Angel_1994 And you previously said that you didn't take Bible litterly. So the idea of Jesus being God in Flesh, is just from your mind? Or did it come in any other book? And if so, how did it come to your generation? Like, from grandfather to grandson? And how do you know that Jesus said that he's God in flesh? ( I'm taking the idea that you don't take Bible litterly as a base for my questions ). You can't just believe in a part of a bible, and leave another part of it?
We don't take out sections as we please. Its been a Tradition since the dawn of Christianity. It's not a new fad. We don't take all sections literally. Some we do take literally, because it makes sense both literally and taking account of ALL OTHER factors like we do with the rest of the bible. But we acknowledge it all as divine Wisdom written by mankind
Again, check my initial link to see the connections with the bible as well. If you want more information, then here:
The Character of Jesus Christ
The Incarnation
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ
.....
The above is from the Catholic Encyclopedia
This is from the Catholic Catechism<---this by far makes the most sense anyhow to me.
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