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 Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:05 am
That is possible, if everyone follow Allah.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:06 am
Sir_Zaki That is possible, if everyone follow Allah. NO! Because then it wouldent be respecting and allowing everyones belifes at all. It would be totalitarian Theocracy, and that has never got anyone anywhere. What you just said can be likend with "Lets have an end to war!" "BY killing everyone who disagrees with us" Zaki you really get worse and worse.
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:34 am
We may have different beleifs, and we disagree with each other on a lot, but that doesn't mean that we can't say "You have your beleifs, and I respect that."
And I would have to agree with Syrokal~
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:42 pm
mazuac We may have different beleifs, and we disagree with each other on a lot, but that doesn't mean that we can't say "You have your beleifs, and I respect that."
And I would have to agree with Syrokal~ exactly even in the Quran it says for you your religion and for me my religion. Its as simple as that... 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:46 pm
Sir_Zaki That is possible, if everyone follow Allah. or its possible if everyones openminded yes... and Not like how your acting... 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:03 pm
well islam isnt a forcing religion....
the problem is the "people" that practicing it gives that kind of image
even if you say everyone follows Allah may but existence of free will make it almost impossible....Allah send His messengers to bring wisdom and all but it is still up to us to accept it or not
so it is still like everyone else is saying..openmindedness
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:58 pm
0_o___V mazuac We may have different beleifs, and we disagree with each other on a lot, but that doesn't mean that we can't say "You have your beleifs, and I respect that."
And I would have to agree with Syrokal~ exactly even in the Quran it says for you your religion and for me my religion. Its as simple as that... 3nodding Mhm! :] But, also, it says...
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Sura (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."
Sura (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."
I know that you guys are really nice and peaceful! :] But what does this mean for others who beleive in a different religion than you?
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:52 pm
mazuac 0_o___V mazuac We may have different beleifs, and we disagree with each other on a lot, but that doesn't mean that we can't say "You have your beleifs, and I respect that."
And I would have to agree with Syrokal~ exactly even in the Quran it says for you your religion and for me my religion. Its as simple as that... 3nodding Mhm! :] But, also, it says...
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Sura (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."
Sura (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."
I know that you guys are really nice and peaceful! :] But what does this mean for others who beleive in a different religion than you? Sura (2:193) can be explained as simply resisting persecution and oppression until things lay peaceful in God/Allah's(SWT) way. Also not to be hostile except to people who are hostile and violent. Sura (9:5) Seems to explain during Muhammad's(PBUH) time to do what it says without hurting them after they have stopped oppressing. Sura (9:29) Can be said as the same as 9:5.
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:45 am
But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:50 pm
mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ You misraid 9:29 It is still reffering to those Who do not belive in Allah when it mentions its a continuation Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:32 pm
mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ I was actually questioning those two first verses as well (9:5 & 29) and I read a copy of the Qur'an I have, It states as a explanation that during those times Islam was different from other scriptures, And that it required protection. But if I were to say myself, I'd simply say those first two verses are one of the few misinterpreted verses used to justify terrorists like Al Qauda (SP) and the Taliban. The verse is something that focuses on that state of time, During the time the verse was revealed, Muslims were defending themselves from the pagan tribes around Saudi Arabia. This verse cannot be used for this day and time. (Because you can't have random Muslims following the verse and killing innocent Jews/Christians/Pagans whatever other religion it may be, That's absolutely what Islam displays, Rather it displays conversion through peace and knowledge)
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:14 pm
Haydar the Truthful mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ I was actually questioning those two first verses as well (9:5 & 29) and I read a copy of the Qur'an I have, It states as a explanation that during those times Islam was different from other scriptures, And that it required protection. But if I were to say myself, I'd simply say those first two verses are one of the view misinterpreted verses used to justify terrorists like Al Qauda (SP) and the Taliban. The verse is something that focuses on that state of time, During the time the verse was revealed, Muslims were defending themselves from the pagan tribes around Saudi Arabia. This verse cannot be used for this day and time. (Because you can't have random Muslims following the verse and killing innocent Jews/Christians/Pagans whatever other religion it may be, That's absolutely what Islam displays, Rather it displays conversion through peace and knowledge) Ah, I see~ That makes more sense! :] Thanks~!
@Syrok: I was just summarizing the Surah from my previous post! :]
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:41 pm
mazuac Haydar the Truthful mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ I was actually questioning those two first verses as well (9:5 & 29) and I read a copy of the Qur'an I have, It states as a explanation that during those times Islam was different from other scriptures, And that it required protection. But if I were to say myself, I'd simply say those first two verses are one of the view misinterpreted verses used to justify terrorists like Al Qauda (SP) and the Taliban. The verse is something that focuses on that state of time, During the time the verse was revealed, Muslims were defending themselves from the pagan tribes around Saudi Arabia. This verse cannot be used for this day and time. (Because you can't have random Muslims following the verse and killing innocent Jews/Christians/Pagans whatever other religion it may be, That's absolutely what Islam displays, Rather it displays conversion through peace and knowledge) Ah, I see~ That makes more sense! :] Thanks~!
@Syrok: I was just summarizing the Surah from my previous post! :] My pleasure to assist you in understanding. Might I also mention The Qur'an has Verses that are both meant to be taken Literally and Spiritually, But never one side or the other completely.
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:45 am
Haydar the Truthful mazuac Haydar the Truthful mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ I was actually questioning those two first verses as well (9:5 & 29) and I read a copy of the Qur'an I have, It states as a explanation that during those times Islam was different from other scriptures, And that it required protection. But if I were to say myself, I'd simply say those first two verses are one of the view misinterpreted verses used to justify terrorists like Al Qauda (SP) and the Taliban. The verse is something that focuses on that state of time, During the time the verse was revealed, Muslims were defending themselves from the pagan tribes around Saudi Arabia. This verse cannot be used for this day and time. (Because you can't have random Muslims following the verse and killing innocent Jews/Christians/Pagans whatever other religion it may be, That's absolutely what Islam displays, Rather it displays conversion through peace and knowledge) Ah, I see~ That makes more sense! :] Thanks~!
@Syrok: I was just summarizing the Surah from my previous post! :] My pleasure to assist you in understanding. Might I also mention The Qur'an has Verses that are both meant to be taken Literally and Spiritually, But never one side or the other completely. Just as the Bible! :] And I was thinking, and I have another question~
Shouldn't the Quran be universally true to all times? Like, if it was true back then, then it should have been true now, yes?
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:23 pm
mazuac Haydar the Truthful mazuac Haydar the Truthful mazuac But Surah 9:5 says nothing of opression against Muslims. It looks like, in other words, it is saying "Kill and slaughter the Pagans wherever they are, but if they become a Muslim, then open the way for them."
And 9:29 seems to be saying "Fight those who don't beleive in Allah, until they pay the tax in submission" And also, what does it mean "not acknowlege the religion of Truth?" It can't be talking about Islam, otherwise you the Quran would be saying "don't acknowledge the religion of Islam."
And 2:193 makes sense now~ I was actually questioning those two first verses as well (9:5 & 29) and I read a copy of the Qur'an I have, It states as a explanation that during those times Islam was different from other scriptures, And that it required protection. But if I were to say myself, I'd simply say those first two verses are one of the view misinterpreted verses used to justify terrorists like Al Qauda (SP) and the Taliban. The verse is something that focuses on that state of time, During the time the verse was revealed, Muslims were defending themselves from the pagan tribes around Saudi Arabia. This verse cannot be used for this day and time. (Because you can't have random Muslims following the verse and killing innocent Jews/Christians/Pagans whatever other religion it may be, That's absolutely what Islam displays, Rather it displays conversion through peace and knowledge) Ah, I see~ That makes more sense! :] Thanks~!
@Syrok: I was just summarizing the Surah from my previous post! :] My pleasure to assist you in understanding. Might I also mention The Qur'an has Verses that are both meant to be taken Literally and Spiritually, But never one side or the other completely. Just as the Bible! :] And I was thinking, and I have another question~
Shouldn't the Quran be universally true to all times? Like, if it was true back then, then it should have been true now, yes? There are verses that should be taken for all times, Yes. These verses would be the more Spiritual ones let alone legislation, But the Qur'an gives events that are also in the Bible and as such is used as a lesson to show morality within Society and how to treat others, Reminding Muslims who read the Qur'an on how to follow the Prophet's(Peace be upon them all) rulings and actions. Such as the stories of Abraham(AS), Moses(AS), Or Jesus(AS). Some actions can't be put into effect because there are also events that show the actions of Pious believers during Muhammad's(PBUH & SAW) time, Such as when Muhammad(PBUH & SAW) was made to leave Mecca and migrate to Medina, Ali(PBUH) slept in his bed so that the tribes planning to kill Muhammad(PBUH & SAW) would be tricked, Risking Ali's(PBUH) life for the sake of Islam, Here is the verse to show the merit of Ali's(PBUH) deed. (This is the Shi'a view of course, I believe the Sunni view believe this verse was attributed to Abu Bakr who was with Muhammad(PBUH & SAW) in the cave as they hide from the tribes) 2:207 - and there is the type of man who gives his life willingly to earn the pleasures of Allah; and Allah is full of kindness to his devotees - These amazing deeds can't be replicated in this day or age, But they are used as a example to be followed for everyone who believes/follows it.
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