Misconceptions about Wicca

[RubyLight]

Jenny Artucio

I used to pass off Neo-Wicca as true Wicca, because I was under the impression that Wicca was the sugar-coated crap I was led to believe. I was never one of the "shock value" kids, though. I was a genuine Seeker, still am.
I grew out of that and now identify with just plain-old paganism. 3nodding

I understand that alot of genuine seekers were taken in by RavenWolf. (myself included sweatdrop )

WitchyBoy, not to long ago, I was in this same argument, with the same members of the guild. Trust me, they know what they are talking about. All they are asking is to use the proper term for your faith.

Out of curiosity, who was our teacher? What did she teach you? Did she claim to be Wiccan? If so, did she bother to initiate you?  

[doistu]

RubyLight

Jenny Artucio

I used to pass off Neo-Wicca as true Wicca, because I was under the impression that Wicca was the sugar-coated crap I was led to believe. I was never one of the "shock value" kids, though. I was a genuine Seeker, still am.
I grew out of that and now identify with just plain-old paganism. 3nodding

I understand that alot of genuine seekers were taken in by RavenWolf. (myself included sweatdrop )

WitchyBoy, not to long ago, I was in this same argument, with the same members of the guild. Trust me, they know what they are talking about. All they are asking is to use the proper term for your faith.

Out of curiosity, who was our teacher? What did she teach you? Did she claim to be Wiccan? If so, did she bother to initiate you?

Even if she did it couldn't have been a proper initiation due to the absence of a coven.
I find it very...shameful that a person would go around spreading false knowledge and leading children down a path like this. It's really very poor and I don't see how anyone gains anything from it at all.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

doistu

I find it very...shameful that a person would go around spreading false knowledge and leading children down a path like this. It's really very poor and I don't see how anyone gains anything from it at all.

I concur.

Not much different than what the likes of Ravenwolf or McCoy are doing neutral  

[WitchyBoy]

you keep saying she but it was a he, his name was raven of the bear clan and was a native shaman who for a length of time was wiccan! so yes a modified initiation did take place. and btw the elemental weapons were the athame and chalice thank you very much.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

WitchyBoy

you keep saying she but it was a he, his name was raven of the bear clan and was a native shaman who for a length of time was wiccan! so yes a modified initiation did take place. and btw the elemental weapons were the athame and chalice thank you very much.

The athame and chalice are not the elemental weapons of ether.

People keep saying "she" because Wicca is cross-gender initiatory. You are a male. Thus you MUST be initiated by a woman. If you were not, you're not Wiccan.

QED.  

[RubyLight]

If he WAS a Wiccan, it wouldn't have been valid anyway.

(The nerve of these assholes! I can't stand peoplr who give false information! mad )  

[doistu]

WitchyBoy, I would suggest you challenge your "teacher" they have led you down a very poor path and I think they deserve a telling off.

It's not your fault by any means but you need to realise that what this person has done is very wrong. False advertising of the worst kind I guess you could say.

And as above posters have said your teacher/initator must be a woman as Wicca is cross-gender.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

WitchyBoy

you keep saying she but it was a he

Then it was not a Wiccan initiation.

Quote:

his name was raven of the bear clan and was a native shaman who for a length of time was wiccan!

If he was Wiccan, then he misled you.

Quote:

so yes a modified initiation did take place.

So he sodomized you then?

Quote:

and btw the elemental weapons were the athame and chalice thank you very much.

Fail.

Please respond to the points that have been raised by all of us, especially the fact that by teaching others something that is obviously not Wicca and telling them to call it Wicca makes you no better than Ravenwolf. Do you justify it because you're not taking their money?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

doistu

WitchyBoy, I would suggest you challenge your "teacher" they have led you down a very poor path and I think they deserve a telling off.

Actually, this is very true.

Witchyboy, you should ask your teacher's lineage and then report his actions to his initiator. He should be brought to task.  

[WitchyBoy]

Ultraviolett1127

WitchyBoy

you keep saying she but it was a he

Then it was not a Wiccan initiation.

Quote:

his name was raven of the bear clan and was a native shaman who for a length of time was wiccan!

If he was Wiccan, then he misled you.

Quote:

so yes a modified initiation did take place.

So he sodomized you then?

Quote:

and btw the elemental weapons were the athame and chalice thank you very much.

Fail.

Please respond to the points that have been raised by all of us, especially the fact that by teaching others something that is obviously not Wicca and telling them to call it Wicca makes you no better than Ravenwolf. Do you justify it because you're not taking their money?

how does it make me no better then ravewolf?! i taught others what i learned through my teacher and through my own hard work because i am meant to teach others and turn them away from a destructive path, i never claimed to be some guru or enlightened being just someone wanting to help. And no he didnt sodomize me! and on top of that hes dead so i cant take him up on it, thanks for brining up that pain again! like i said it was MODIFIED not exactly the way gardner did it ok.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

WitchyBoy

how does it make me no better then ravewolf?!

If you're teaching others something that is not Wicca and encouraging them to misappropriate the title of Wicca/n, then you're guilty of the same thing that Ravenwolf tries to do.

Quote:

i taught others what i learned through my teacher

Whom we've established already is, at best, questionably Wiccan.

Quote:

and through my own hard work because i am meant to teach others and turn them away from a destructive path,

What constitutes a "destructive" path for you?
If you're teaching others and not telling them to call it Wicca, fine and great. I personally however would be hesitant to learn from someone who calls his practice by a terribly incorrect term. If you can't even get the correct name for your path, who is to say that what you're passing on is even worth its weight?

Quote:

i never claimed to be some guru or enlightened being just someone wanting to help.

Fair enough. And I don't recall saying you were a guru.
Through the course of this conversation you've pretty much proven to be anything but.

Quote:

And no he didnt sodomize me!

Seeing as how Wicca is a fertility religion and you brought up a "modified" initiation, that was the only reasonable thing I could fathom.
Unless of course, it wasn't a Wiccan initiation....which is what we're trying to explain to you.

Quote:

and on top of that hes dead so i cant take him up on it, thanks for brining up that pain again!

It happens; we all have people in our lives that die.
So you accepted a supposed "Wiccan" initiation from someone and didn't even bother checking to see what their up-line was?
That doesn't seem questionable to you?'

Quote:

like i said it was MODIFIED not exactly the way gardner did it ok.

Then it wasn't a Wiccan initiation.
Thus you are not Wiccan.
Thus your practices are not Wiccan.

Gardner laid out the way the religion is supposed to function. Wicca is created as an orthopraxy, meaning that the correct practice is held in highest regards. To not follow the correct practice means that the religion stops being said religion. This is why it is impossible to have a "modified" initiation or any other ritual of sorts and still cal it Wicca/n.  

[MidnightLetter]

WitchyBoy... One thing that is very important to note. No one is saying that your beliefs and practices are in any way invalid. I am sure that you have worked very hard to get to where you are, and no one is questioning that. What is in question is the use of the word Wicca. There are so many people in the world that have misappropriated and misrepresented Wicca, that it is no wonder there is such confusion at its use. While ones path may be Wiccan inspired, unless it holds to the core tenants that make up the Wiccan religion (which include cross-gender initiation, among other things) then it technically doesn't have the right to claim that it is Wiccan. My understanding of it, is that most of what has been published, is (in the best of circumstances) only loosely based on outer-court Wiccan practices, and in many cases - doesn't even resemble their practices at all. So it becomes a bit easier to understand why calling oneself a Wiccan seems a bit silly, when ones practices really have nothing to do with what Wicca really is.

As others have said, we have all been in the exact same place, and truthfully it sucks to have someone tell you that Wicca is something completely different that what we all thought it was. In the end though, it's just a word - and as long as what I practice works for me, does it really matter that I can't call it Wicca? Not in the slightest. If I eventually am able to find a coven and become an initiate...that's great! If not, I'll just do what I do, and being a Witch and a Pagan suits me just fine.

I found out not too long ago, that both Buckland and Cunningham wished that they had never used the terms "self-initiation" in any of their books. Originally their books, and many similar ones were only published so that those of us who were waiting to find a coven would have something to practice with while we were waiting - as Wicca was never meant to be solitary.  

[Captain Eliana]

What MidnightLetter said.

To be direct, just call yourself a Pagan. It'll save you a lot of unnessesary s**t in the future.  

[too2sweet]

WitchyBoy

personally i dont see the issue, ... after all isnt it really up to the gods as to whos wiccan and who isnt?

Wicca is the priesthood of a specific God and Goddess, and one may be called by the Lord and Lady, but the only way to determine that is through discussion with a properly lineaged HPS or HP. Since info on the Lord and Lady is oath-bound, only an initiate can tell if it is actually the Lord and Lady who have called you, and not some other God or Goddess.  

[Morgandria]

Sanguina-chan

doistu

This is were all the confusion lies for neo-pagans who want to be wiccan. The line between Wicca and an electic neo-pagan path is never drawn in much of the material presented to them on the subject and it isn't untill they reach forums such as these that they get a swift and sometimes brutal kick in the face.

Definitely. One of the things that has annoyed me for a while is that none of the Traditional Wiccans have yet gotten off their arses to write a book. All they do is say "go read Gardner", which is great, until you remember how littered with falsities and errors it is in hindsight. 60 years was a long time ago. Someone needs to write a book that a) doesn't equate Wicca with witchcraft and vice versa and b) blatantly say that Wicca is an ancient religion hidden for centuries.

It just pisses me off that they b***h on and on about the bad books but no one can be fagged writing a good one.

I realize I'm necro'ing this, but...

Deborah Lipp is a 3* Gardnerian priestess, who has written several excellent books. You might enjoy them.