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 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:32 am
No problem. Slick Southpaw Christians aren't, yes, but we're not having a modern Inquisition here; extremist Muslims are. And what little control there is...gets bashed by the majority it seems. Religious discrimination is old. Suicide bombings at specific religious centers is not. Darfaur's situation is not. gonk I just want to see some sanity worldwide. Sure there's a whole new deal of problems with bombings and what not, But the point is people are still dying whether it be by sword and arrow massacres or random suicide bombings, I dislike and practically hate both but that's how the world's been and that's probably how it will be before I die myself. And if we're gonna talk about extremist Muslims, Don't bother to forget other genocides like Israel's air-strikes on the Gaza strip not too long ago, Whether Israel did it out of Self defense or just going overboard it was still uncalled for either way. Slick Southpaw Hindus haven't had a problem with it, and they've been here a lot longer than Islam, in real history, not Muslim-version history. And Buddhists have also made peace with it, since most of them don't seem to have a qualm with their religion about the sudden pop of souls. You go through cycles. It's not like the moment someone dies their soul gets instantly popped into another body. It takes time to be reborn, for some, decades, other centuries... Oh I see, That makes more sense then.
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:52 pm
Glad we could get on the same page for some parts. I disagree with the next part, though. Haydar Al-Sidq And if we're gonna talk about extremist Muslims, Don't bother to forget other genocides like Israel's air-strikes on the Gaza strip not too long ago, Whether Israel did it out of Self defense or just going overboard it was still uncalled for either way. Israel was not doing a genocide. They were trying to exterminate Hamas LEADERS. Do you even know what genocide means? Quote: genocidethe deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. It was not uncalled for as Hamas leaders were lobbing ROCKETS into Israel. If Palestine can't keep an effing cease-fire pledge, then why should Israel sit back and enjoy being blown apart bit by bit? They (Israel) were targeting specific buildings and WARNING people that they were going to bomb it. And you know what? Hamas dresses exactly like civilians and they HIDE BEHIND CIVILIANS. Now try and defend yourself when you don't know where to effing shoot. The point was to remove the leaders of Hamas; as they orchestrate ceaseless rockets and refuse to listen to reason. neutral where Israel failed though, was with taking care of the civilians; they should have been more active with humanitarian aid. But I digress, this stuff should be in the General Debate forum, so I will leave it to you to continue this conversation there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, on topic, I am still further convinced that no one worships the same God. A large part of it, especially with Islam, is its refusal to adapt to the changing times. Judiasm has in some ways; other ways, like with Orthodox Jews, do not seem willing to deal with the era changing. Christianity has fractured into several thousands of pieces; some which change to the times so rapidly its unbelievable, others have struck their foot back in the 17th century, Middle ages,...and some only change at absolute necessity in order to keep the faith alive.
By change, I do not mean altering core values. What I mean is adjusting to the new ways of thinking that improve society, that bring a community closer to their god, that brings true righteousness and stability to individuals and the religion.
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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:43 pm
Slick Southpaw was not uncalled for as Hamas leaders were lobbing ROCKETS into Israel. If Palestine can't keep an effing cease-fire pledge, then why should Israel sit back and enjoy being blown apart bit by bit? They (Israel) were targeting specific buildings and WARNING people that they were going to bomb it. And you know what? Hamas dresses exactly like civilians and they HIDE BEHIND CIVILIANS. Now try and defend yourself when you don't know where to effing shoot. The point was to remove the leaders of Hamas; as they orchestrate ceaseless rockets and refuse to listen to reason. neutral where Israel failed though, was with taking care of the civilians; they should have been more active with humanitarian aid. But I digress, this stuff should be in the General Debate forum, so I will leave it to you to continue this conversation there. Genocide still seems to fit that picture even if the excuse was to take out a select group of leaders. More civilians died than needed to, Or at the very least take better care of the civilians, But instead they've had to apparently suffer the effects of the continuous air-strikes while they block out all the other nations attempting to give humanitarian Aid. Slick Southpaw Israel was not doing a genocide. They were trying to exterminate Hamas LEADERS. Do you even know what genocide means? genocidethe deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. I've already seen both sides of the issue, Regardless if Israel warned the civilians to leave they gave them a very short time to escape and even then they would still get hit by a airstrike since I doubt crowded groups of civilians can escape a big air-strike within some 5 minutes or whatever time they gave them. (I got it off a news article, If you don't believe me anyway.) There were many protests against Israel as they say it was a "Holocaust" simply by keeping Supplies away from the Many many countries wanting to Aid the poor civilians. Slick Southpaw b]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, on topic, I am still further convinced that no one worships the same God. A large part of it, especially with Islam, is its refusal to adapt to the changing times. Judiasm has in some ways; other ways, like with Orthodox Jews, do not seem willing to deal with the era changing. Christianity has fractured into several thousands of pieces; some which change to the times so rapidly its unbelievable, others have struck their foot back in the 17th century, Middle ages,...and some only change at absolute necessity in order to keep the faith alive.
By change, I do not mean altering core values. What I mean is adjusting to the new ways of thinking that improve society, that bring a community closer to their god, that brings true righteousness and stability to individuals and the religion.
Still typically depends on how strict the person is to the belief that they cannot be lenient of changing the rules even a little. Really having everyone worshipping the same God makes more sense to me because it would provide more unified means of believing. It's not like the teachings are completely unknown or alienated between the religions. They're similar in some way or another, But they just seem different because of these "Adapting changes to the modern era".
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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:10 pm
Haydar Al-Sidq Genocide still seems to fit that picture even if the excuse was to take out a select group of leaders. More civilians died than needed to, Or at the very least take better care of the civilians, But instead they've had to apparently suffer the effects of the continuous air-strikes while they block out all the other nations attempting to give humanitarian Aid. The civilians suffer because of Hamas. The UN is finally realizing that as well. The UN refused to send more aid to Palestine because they discovered that Hamas were TAKING THE SUPPLIES AND SELLING THEM, instead of distributing the much needed aid. More civilians died than needed to because Hamas uses them as human meat shields. Haydar Al-Sidq I've already seen both sides of the issue, Regardless if Israel warned the civilians to leave they gave them a very short time to escape and even then they would still get hit by a airstrike since I doubt crowded groups of civilians can escape a big air-strike within some 5 minutes or whatever time they gave them. (I got it off a news article, If you don't believe me anyway.) I do believe you. But it doesn't help the fact that Hamas were hiding among civilians either. Haydar Al-Sidq There were many protests against Israel as they say it was a "Holocaust" simply by keeping Supplies away from the Many many countries wanting to Aid the poor civilians. lulz. If Palestine actually used all the donations and aid given to them, they'd be rich as Las Vegas. People in Palestine are in refugee camps because of their own leadership, not Israel. And the UN has calmed down against its tirade of Israel after discovering what Hamas does to Humanitarian Aid. How the hell are you supposed to help people when the leaders take the aid and use it for themselves to make a profit? It's like North Korea all over again. If the Palestinans don't do something...they're not going to get any more major aid from rich countries. And trust me, there will be far more suffering than there is now if this happens. Haydar Al-Sidq Still typically depends on how strict the person is to the belief that they cannot be lenient of changing the rules even a little. Really having everyone worshipping the same God makes more sense to me because it would provide more unified means of believing. It's not like the teachings are completely unknown or alienated between the religions. They're similar in some way or another, But they just seem different because of these "Adapting changes to the modern era". We have similar values, but not the same God, in my opinion. Each religion takes a little bit and tries to improve on the other (and whether each religion is an improvement is up to the individual's choice). We all have our own constructs of God is, how we should worship him and how to follow him. Especially on how to follow God's teachings is big separation. Sure, there's the general 'love one another, don't murder, don't do adultry, don't lie, don't steal and worship only one God'. Those are big general statements, and really, just common sense. Cheating, lying, murder and adultery wreck havoc on families. Families are the foundations of societies, and if the family system is ruined, then you don't have much of a society at all. The belief in a certain being helps unify a community and stimulate good moral values as well as people of strong character. Is it the sole case for a good community? No, but it certainly helps when struggling through hard times.
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:15 am
Slick Southpaw The civilians suffer because of Hamas. The UN is finally realizing that as well. The UN refused to send more aid to Palestine because they discovered that Hamas were TAKING THE SUPPLIES AND SELLING THEM, instead of distributing the much needed aid. More civilians died than needed to because Hamas uses them as human meat shields. So Israel couldn't just take a group of civilians and give them Aid themselves while searching out for the obvious weapons or bombs any Hamas militants may have? They had to just use air-strikes without clearing the area of completely harmless civilians who obviously didn't have any weapons of any sort, The only way Hamas could really get by is either if Israel's soldiers didn't have a sharp enough eye to see something like a AK-47 on some random persons back in a crowd. Then again the Human meat shield deal comes up again but it still would have saved more lives I would think. Slick Southpaw I do believe you. But it doesn't help the fact that Hamas were hiding among civilians either. Again I would think even if they were among the civilians a gun clearly pointing out who was a militant and who was a innocent civilian would suffice. Basically whoever was holding a gun should be shot while anyone without a gun should be avoided for gunfire. But it's already over with all these cease-fires and what not. Slick Southpaw lulz. If Palestine actually used all the donations and aid given to them, they'd be rich as Las Vegas. People in Palestine are in refugee camps because of their own leadership, not Israel. And the UN has calmed down against its tirade of Israel after discovering what Hamas does to Humanitarian Aid. How the hell are you supposed to help people when the leaders take the aid and use it for themselves to make a profit? It's like North Korea all over again. If the Palestinans don't do something...they're not going to get any more major aid from rich countries. And trust me, there will be far more suffering than there is now if this happens. I already know that it'll only get worse with how things are going, All we can really do for now is wait I suppose. But that was the term used for the occasion before the donations stopped. I also don't feel as bad for the Palestinians who sold their homes or supported terrorist groups like Al-Quada(SP), Just the ones who are utterly innocent and who were apparently kicked out of their homes into these occupied territories. Slick Southpaw We have similar values, but not the same God, in my opinion. Each religion takes a little bit and tries to improve on the other (and whether each religion is an improvement is up to the individual's choice). We all have our own constructs of God is, how we should worship him and how to follow him. Especially on how to follow God's teachings is big separation. Sure, there's the general 'love one another, don't murder, don't do adultry, don't lie, don't steal and worship only one God'. Those are big general statements, and really, just common sense. Cheating, lying, murder and adultery wreck havoc on families. Families are the foundations of societies, and if the family system is ruined, then you don't have much of a society at all. The belief in a certain being helps unify a community and stimulate good moral values as well as people of strong character. Is it the sole case for a good community? No, but it certainly helps when struggling through hard times. Sure we have the general "Love one another, Don't murder, Etc..." But the big separation seems to be within the doctrines produced only after the Holy books are made. The trinity for example which only belongs to Christianity, Although not all the doctrines are separated really, I believe there was a doctrine that shows God as One? I'm not positive but I'm sure all three books clearly explain that. The trinity and Sin that only moves down from generation to generation from Adam and Eve until Jesus dies seem to be the major points of where separation occurs. Don't Jews pray 3 times each day? Didn't Jesus renew that law by praying himself? And in the Qur'an it says to pray at certain times of the day whether it be 3, 4, or 5. But it still remains that prayer is needed again although either people do it wrong or don't do it at all. The three religions generally speak the same message of those morals and beliefs as said at the beginning of my post so I don't think little differences would change the entire face of God really. Also the only Major sin that God will never forgive is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit in Christianity, And to Allah In Islam. "Indeed Allah does not forgive associating anything with Him, and He forgives whatever is other than that to whomever He wills." (Al Nisa: 4 cool "
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:10 pm
Haydar Al-Sidq So Israel couldn't just take a group of civilians and give them Aid themselves while searching out for the obvious weapons or bombs any Hamas militants may have? They had to just use air-strikes without clearing the area of completely harmless civilians who obviously didn't have any weapons of any sort, The only way Hamas could really get by is either if Israel's soldiers didn't have a sharp enough eye to see something like a AK-47 on some random persons back in a crowd. Then again the Human meat shield deal comes up again but it still would have saved more lives I would think.
You can't have a ground force doing precise sweepings unless there's a plow to do some of the dirty work. If Israel just did a ground force, it would have lasted a lot longer. I'm presuming that the initial bombing was a "shock and awe" effect. Hamas knew they were getting their asses handed to them; they knew that innocent people were dying, their leaders were getting killed, but they persisted on firing rockets. You wanna try and take out those rockets as soon as possible before sending in your infantry, or your army is going to suffer severe casualties and the fight would drag on far longer than it would have this way. More civilians would have died through a ground force entering, due to the prolonged amount of time they would have been there, trying to sort out the militants from the civilians. Haydar Al-Sidq Again I would think even if they were among the civilians a gun clearly pointing out who was a militant and who was a innocent civilian would suffice. Basically whoever was holding a gun should be shot while anyone without a gun should be avoided for gunfire. But it's already over with all these cease-fires and what not. Haydar Al-Sidq But the big separation seems to be within the doctrines produced only after the Holy books are made.
*cough*Maccabees*cough*Haydar Al-Sidq The trinity for example which only belongs to Christianity, Although not all the doctrines are separated really, I believe there was a doctrine that shows God as One? Quote: Genesis 1:26 26 God said, 'Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.' Haydar Al-Sidq I'm not positive but I'm sure all three books clearly explain that. The trinity and Sin that only moves down from generation to generation from Adam and Eve until Jesus dies seem to be the major points of where separation occurs. Don't Jews pray 3 times each day?
Incorrect again. Jews do not believe in original sin; Christians do, and are the only ones that hold that belief.
The concept of the Trinity only becomes clear with the death of Jesus that gives people freedom from the chains of Original Sin. Haydar Al-Sidq Didn't Jesus renew that law by praying himself? . Haydar Al-Sidq And in the Qur'an it says to pray at certain times of the day whether it be 3, 4, or 5. But it still remains that prayer is needed again although either people do it wrong or don't do it at all. The three religions generally speak the same message of those morals and beliefs as said at the beginning of my post so I don't think little differences would change the entire face of God really. Haydar Al-Sidq Also the only Major sin that God will never forgive is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit in Christianity, And to Allah In Islam.
My God is not as harsh as Allah, basing on what I see in your post.
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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:10 pm
Well, it may not have been said before, but us Christians worship Jesus as God...
There's one difference! :]
Oh, also, I was reading through some of the stuff. Just out in the blue, and off topic, is Purgatory a place where everyone has a second chance?
I am a Protestant and don't beleive in Purgatory, but just curious~
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:43 am
_rainarai_ Haydar Al-Sidq _rainarai_
If I believe in god, would the one I believe in be nothing for you christians?
Why do you always have to be right? that "your god, or jesus" is god?Depends how tolerant the Christian is and how strict they are to their religion. I've actually asked this myself, Why is it that Islam is the only religion of the Abrahamic Religions that respects the other two, While Christianity and Judaism simply refuse to take the other religions into consideration? I mean I've seen Jews who simply make fun of Jesus (A), And Christians that make fun of Muhammad (S). Why not just respect and believe what you can believe?
I don't know, here are the names of god in different languages:
AEolian.....................Ilos
Arabic....................Allah
Armorian.................Teuti
Assyrian.................. Eleah
Celtic......................Diu
Chaldaic............. Eilah
Cretan...................Thios
Chinese..................Prussa
Coromandel..............Brama
Danish.....................Gut
Dutch.....................Godt
Egyptian (old).............Teut
Egyptian (modern).........Teun
English....................God
Finch...................Jumala
Flemish...................Goed
French.....................Dieu
German....................Gott
German (old)...............Diet
Greek...................Theos
Gallic.......................Diu
Hebrew...........Elohim, Eloha
Hindoostanee..............Rain
Japanese................Goezur
Irish........................Dia
Italian......................Dio
Madagascar..... .......Zannar
Malay.....................Alla
Norwegian.................Gud
Latin.....................Deus
Low Latin.................Diex
Low Breton................Done
Lapp ..........................Jubinal
Olalu Tongue..............Deu
Old Saxon..................God
Peruvian..........Puchecammae
Persian....................Sire
Pannonian..................Istu
Polish.....................Bog
Pollacca.................Bung
Portuguese................Debs
Provencal.................Diou
Runic... ...................As
Russian...................Bojh
Spanish...................Dios
Swedish...................Gud
Slav....................Buch
Swiss......................Gott
Tartar................Magatal
Zemblain................Fetizo
See? they're all different. But we believe it's the same god.In Malay we call Allah, Tuhan. Tuhan means God itself. & god is ALLAH ONLY. un?
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:50 am
Kidaisuke around 70% of it is not right... Soo razz
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:07 pm
mazuac Well, it may not have been said before, but us Christians worship Jesus as God...
There's one difference! :]
Oh, also, I was reading through some of the stuff. Just out in the blue, and off topic, is Purgatory a place where everyone has a second chance?
I am a Protestant and don't beleive in Purgatory, but just curious~
Not all Christians acknowledge the Trinity, like Greek Orthodox. The term 'father and son' in the Nicene creed, which is the creed of the Catholic church is what created Catholicism and Greek Orthodox as the beginning officially organized Christian branches from a coalition of similarly-minded followers of Christ Jesus.
Purgatory, for Catholics, is where you do your penance, because not everyone has a pure soul and only pure souls go to heaven. Hell is punishment for those who absolutely and utterly reject God. There are many levels in puragatory, those that are the 'least clean' of souls are closer to the levels of hell and the purer souls are closer to heaven. I guess you could say that Purgatory is like a series of baths that you have to take to remove the ugliness of sin on your soul. What's supposedly agonizing is the wait for heaven and yearning for God and fulfillment while trying to prepare yourself for God.
It's not really a second chance, persay, but rather like pouring alcohol on an open wound. It stings and hurts like hell, but it helps to clean the wound and encourage healing of the skin so that it can become whole again.
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:16 pm
Slick Southpaw mazuac Well, it may not have been said before, but us Christians worship Jesus as God...
There's one difference! :]
Oh, also, I was reading through some of the stuff. Just out in the blue, and off topic, is Purgatory a place where everyone has a second chance?
I am a Protestant and don't beleive in Purgatory, but just curious~
Not all Christians acknowledge the Trinity, like Greek Orthodox. The term 'father and son' in the Nicene creed, which is the creed of the Catholic church is what created Catholicism and Greek Orthodox as the beginning officially organized Christian branches from a coalition of similarly-minded followers of Christ Jesus.
Purgatory, for Catholics, is where you do your penance, because not everyone has a pure soul and only pure souls go to heaven. Hell is punishment for those who absolutely and utterly reject God. There are many levels in puragatory, those that are the 'least clean' of souls are closer to the levels of hell and the purer souls are closer to heaven. I guess you could say that Purgatory is like a series of baths that you have to take to remove the ugliness of sin on your soul. What's supposedly agonizing is the wait for heaven and yearning for God and fulfillment while trying to prepare yourself for God.
It's not really a second chance, persay, but rather like pouring alcohol on an open wound. It stings and hurts like hell, but it helps to clean the wound and encourage healing of the skin so that it can become whole again.
Not talking about the trinity, but... I suppose Jesus being God is a trinity aspect! :]
And shouldn't the death of Jesus and His blood washing out our sins make us clean and holy? After all, the Bible says "we are made perfect, in Christ Jesus." Or something along those lines~
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:19 pm
mazuac Slick Southpaw mazuac Well, it may not have been said before, but us Christians worship Jesus as God...
There's one difference! :]
Oh, also, I was reading through some of the stuff. Just out in the blue, and off topic, is Purgatory a place where everyone has a second chance?
I am a Protestant and don't beleive in Purgatory, but just curious~
Not all Christians acknowledge the Trinity, like Greek Orthodox. The term 'father and son' in the Nicene creed, which is the creed of the Catholic church is what created Catholicism and Greek Orthodox as the beginning officially organized Christian branches from a coalition of similarly-minded followers of Christ Jesus.
Purgatory, for Catholics, is where you do your penance, because not everyone has a pure soul and only pure souls go to heaven. Hell is punishment for those who absolutely and utterly reject God. There are many levels in puragatory, those that are the 'least clean' of souls are closer to the levels of hell and the purer souls are closer to heaven. I guess you could say that Purgatory is like a series of baths that you have to take to remove the ugliness of sin on your soul. What's supposedly agonizing is the wait for heaven and yearning for God and fulfillment while trying to prepare yourself for God.
It's not really a second chance, persay, but rather like pouring alcohol on an open wound. It stings and hurts like hell, but it helps to clean the wound and encourage healing of the skin so that it can become whole again.
Not talking about the trinity, but... I suppose Jesus being God is a trinity aspect! :]
And shouldn't the death of Jesus and His blood washing out our sins make us clean and holy? After all, the Bible says "we are made perfect, in Christ Jesus." Or something along those lines~
It is. I made a picture explaining this:
 This is how Catholics view and understand the Trinity concept.
And on that note, the death of Jesus has given us the spiritual cleansing to remove "original sin" through baptism. Catholics also believe that when you are baptized in the Catholic Church, you are also given the indelible mark on your soul. I'm not sure how exactly to explain it; but in layman's terms it means that once baptized as a Catholic, you will always and forever be a Catholic according to the Catholic Church, even if you leave it. But anyhow, for Catholics, we believe that just because Jesus died, doesn't automatically make us clean and holy. We have to work at it. He died to give us a specific path for eternal salvation. You still have to earn it; Jesus doesn't give handouts, according to my faith. You're not guaranteed an automatic spot in heaven because you believe in Jesus; that's a key factor that separates the Catholic Church from a lot of other Christian believers. It's all about earning your place in Heaven. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:04 pm
Kidaisuke In Malay we call Allah, Tuhan. Tuhan means God itself. & god is ALLAH ONLY. un? Yes, Indonesian too.. biggrin I dont want to offend anyone, so in every post I'll say this is Muslim's point of view. All religion that come from Allah different, adapting to the era (except Islam, which Allah promised it's originality and usable untill the end), except one that never change, that is "Tauhid" (Allah, being one and only God). If we look at this, the one we worship is the same. But when some people think that Allah is not the one and only God, that's when I believe the one we worship is no longer same.
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