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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:34 pm
Yeah, I've definitley heard that argument before. I too think it's rediculous. Just because you're Pagan doesn't mean you have to be a vegetarian. I know plenty of Pagans who enjoy meat quite a bit.
I also share your sentiment when it comes to militant vegetarians. I knew a veg. once who would insult people who ate meat. I myself am a veg., but I couldn't care less what other people eat. It's a personal choice.
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:02 pm
This might turn out quite long, so forgive me. sweatdrop
One thing we must get straight: "Pagan" does not automatically mean "one who is part of a nature religion", as not all of the religions under the Pagan Umbrella are nature religions. Being "Pagan" does not mean I have to follow the Wiccan Rede. "An ye harm none" is part of Wicca, not the entire Pagan Umbrella. Thus, when one wails "But, but, but... the REDE!" in my direction, I tend to ignore him/her. 3nodding
On that note, those who claim that being Pagan and being Vegan go hand-in-hand need to step into a more varied Pagan community than their own. Pose the question on Nonfluffypagans on LiveJournal, and see what happens. Ask a few Asatruar, a few Hellenic Recons, a few Celtic Recons, a few Kemetics, see what varied replies are given. Those groups may not consider themselves Pagan (Can't blame them, to be honest), however, they do fit under the Pagan Umbrella -- for now.
In my opinion, it's silly to say "I won't eat meat because that means I'm killing an animal", because plants are also living things, and I would be taking a life there, too. Some would argue that "it's just a plant", but another could argue "it's just a chicken." Either way, something suffers -- even if I cannot see it directly.
I could not become a vegetarian, and will not. I do not enjoy eating beef or pork, but I do eat fish and poultry. My religious path, thus far, has not told me that I need to change that. I don't usually have the time or money to invest in preparing a properly balanced diet (I'm a College student -- healthy eating with a microwave doesn't work very well razz ). I view the times that I am able to eat meat as a blessing from the Gods.
My ancestors were, at one point, hunters. I can't go out and hunt my own meat, but I honour them by remembering the sacrifices they made in order to feed their own families. I was built to be an omnivore, and that's what I am. If I can do something to help improve the way prey animals are kept and raised, that doesn't impact my own health, I'll do it. Selfish? Yes. Everything that we, as humans, do is for selfish reasons, whether we realize it or not. 3nodding
Whatever point I was trying to make is gone. Ha ha. That's what happens when I'm doing homework and typing here at the same time. xp
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:49 am
Well, I eat meat and so do most witches and other Pagans that I know or have known.
I feel that the Rede must be taken in context, not to extremes. After all, we are counted among those who we must not harm and so we muct keep ourselves healthy. Meat provides a lot of protein and other nutrients like iron.
Besides, Paganism is old, even if Wicca and the newer offshoots from the old ways aren't. In the old days, meat was not scorned. The spirit of the animal was thanked for its sacrifice and the meat was eaten, often shared by many.
I think that's where the early Christians got the idea of asking for their meal to be blessed - from those who came before them.
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:31 pm
Miss_Spell I think that's where the early Christians got the idea of asking for their meal to be blessed - from those who came before them.
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Nihilistic Seraph Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:31 am
WebenBanu It's odd for people to attempt tying Paganism in with vegetarianism, since Pagan religions generally teach respect for Mother Nature rather than telling Her that She is in violation of the Rede. Ah, I can allways rely on you for a good quote...
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:35 am
I think it just bottles down to a personal choice. If you're a vegetarian, be proud of it. If you eat meat, be proud of it. Just in both cases, don't bash the other group for it. That just makes you look silly. Like the time my sister went through a vegetarian phase (lasted as long as a trip to Holland and the prospect of Dutch cuisine) and viciously called me a carnivor when I was making some bacon.
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Nihilistic Seraph Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:48 am
WebenBanu Atma311 No one is doing that here. It was simply an expression of beliefs based on what I understand and what is right for me The topic of discussion in this thread was people saying that vegetarianism and Paganism go hand in hand, and that eating meat is a violation of the Rede. I'm also extending it to cover folks who cite their vegetarianism as a moral choice and accuse people who eat meat of being immoral. I don't have any problem with people who just don't eat meat because they don't want to- I won't cram food down somebody's throat if they don't like the taste. Especially not if I'd like to eat it, myself.^_~ Atma311 I also never said that I count plants as much of a living being as I do myself. However, I think of the plants more as "givers" than anything else. Plants have the type of personality that say "Here. Take my food that I offer you freely. I have no nerves, so plucking the fruit I offer will not harm me at all." However, I don't see animals as quite the same "givers". They don't have the tendancy too often to offer their limbs and say, "Here. Eat me." That's JUST MY OPINION, though. Plants do, in fact, react to adverse situations. They make very high-pitched screaming sounds when dying of thirst, or when someone approaches them with pruning sheers- these sounds are too high to be detected by our ears, but they have been measured. They have also been demonstrated to grow or wilt slowly away from people who have recently traumatized them or another member of their species. It's a slow process, so most people don't notice it unless they're using instruments to measure it, but it's as fast as they can move. Just because you don't see this, and can't hear what they're doing, doesn't mean that they're just sitting around saying "Eat Me." Atma311 No one is going up to Mother Nature and complaining that she's in violation of the rede simply by not wanting to kill her children. Also, did you just imply the Gods would be angry with vegetarians for not consuming meat? Just wondering Actually, people are suggesting that Mother Nature is in violation of the Rede, because they are saying that eating meat is against the Rede, and Mother Nature is the one who designed us (and other predators) to eat meat in the first place. And yes, I am saying that if you went to a God of Hunting and told him that hunting was evil, and therefore he was bad and immoral and should just be wiped off the face of the planet, he would be upset. Or do you think he'd just be fine with that?^_^ um... i dont think i can say it better than that. lol. can i be like you when i grow up?
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:12 pm
I am thinking of becoming what Wikipedia calls a flexitarian. I don't think I can give up meat 100% yet. I do think I can give it up 95-99% though. I order vegetarian dishes at the mall anyways. But I DO love those Campbell's Chunky Soups. They're so good! But my favorite one has some bacon in it. My second favorite one has chicken. So I can give up most meat. I may eat a little meat from time to time though. I normally stick to salads and veggies anyways.
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:59 am
My take on the whole thing is pretty well summed up by someone else's words. I direct you to the Sixth Commandment of Coyote:
VI. Of Course Thou Shalt Kill. Carnivores Do That. Also, Swatting Mosquitoes, Sort Of Instinctive. But All Creatures Are Alive Before You Kill Them, and So Thou Shalt Respect Them In Their Lives and In Their Deaths. Thou Shalt Not Kill Without Reason. Thy Neighbor Tapping Thy Wife's a**? Is Not A Reason. Don't Make Me Set A Plague Upon Thy a**. Thou Wouldst Not Enjoy It, I Promise.
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:52 am
funny. But I don't eat much meat anyways. So I wouldn't really be changing anything.
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:17 am
Pagan actually means "hill folk", and I'm Wiccan, and have no problem with eating meat.
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