Healthcare Bill

[Pumona]

captin bigshot911NK

you don't understand see my mom and sister are chronically ill they spend 100k a year on meds alone if it was not for are private insurance not and my father's plan from his work we would be on the streets and we damm near close now

Sorry about what your going thru, I was trying to help you feel a little better.  

[goodshot911SNK]

no its all good everyone has there bumbs in the road myns jjust biger then most

sweatdrop heart emo  

[Lord Bitememan]

Pumona

Like I have said before, right now since I got laid off I'm considered lower class financially and my healthcare is great. My husband and I are both working in fastfood (not managers). We were getting $4.00 an hour when we got our first place and 8 years ago bought a house.
So people stop the complaining and get a job or cut off your expensive cell phone bills. Anyone can get medical insurance (I have always had it). Sorry if this bothers some of you. Oh and by the way some of us do have to pay more because of people running to emergency rooms for colds,other unnecessary reasons and for them not paying their bills. Do you think that is fair for everyone else? I don't think so.

One quick question; what state were you living in when you did all this?  

[Pumona]

Lord Bitememan

Pumona

Like I have said before, right now since I got laid off I'm considered lower class financially and my healthcare is great. My husband and I are both working in fastfood (not managers). We were getting $4.00 an hour when we got our first place and 8 years ago bought a house.
So people stop the complaining and get a job or cut off your expensive cell phone bills. Anyone can get medical insurance (I have always had it). Sorry if this bothers some of you. Oh and by the way some of us do have to pay more because of people running to emergency rooms for colds,other unnecessary reasons and for them not paying their bills. Do you think that is fair for everyone else? I don't think so.

One quick question; what state were you living in when you did all this?

Still Minnesota, never lived anywhere else.  

[Lord Bitememan]

Pumona

Lord Bitememan

Pumona

Like I have said before, right now since I got laid off I'm considered lower class financially and my healthcare is great. My husband and I are both working in fastfood (not managers). We were getting $4.00 an hour when we got our first place and 8 years ago bought a house.
So people stop the complaining and get a job or cut off your expensive cell phone bills. Anyone can get medical insurance (I have always had it). Sorry if this bothers some of you. Oh and by the way some of us do have to pay more because of people running to emergency rooms for colds,other unnecessary reasons and for them not paying their bills. Do you think that is fair for everyone else? I don't think so.

One quick question; what state were you living in when you did all this?

Still Minnesota, never lived anywhere else.

Some facts about Minnesota that might bear hearing out here. Minnesota is not rated to have exceptionally high costs of living. That means the minimum wage you worked for was much closer to the market floor for wages in your area. This is as opposed to places like New York, with high costs of living, where the federal minimum wage is too low, and nobody works for it. Minnesota has lower housing costs than significant portions of the country, and also has a substantially lower crime rate, meaning there's less likelihood of a tradeoff between housing costs and safety. Insurance premiums in Minnesota are in the lower half of state markets, with your individual premiums in the lowest ten state markets. You have an 8% unemployment rate according to the bls, and that represents only a 2.6 percentage point increase over your 2008 performance. So, your state has been hit by the recession, but certainly hasn't been met with the hilt of the sword like some of your neighbors (Michigan, for example, is in a full fledged depression with a 15.2% unemployment rate). You had a stable partner with you when you moved in together, many people do not have this advantage and in tough economies it's difficult for both partners to find work. I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishment, but you do need to consider the context in which you achieved it. What you did, working for minimum wage, living independently, buying a house, and maintaining health insurance throughout it all would simply not be possible were some of your surrounding circumstances different.  

[Pumona]

Lord Bitememan

Pumona

Lord Bitememan

Pumona

Like I have said before, right now since I got laid off I'm considered lower class financially and my healthcare is great. My husband and I are both working in fastfood (not managers). We were getting $4.00 an hour when we got our first place and 8 years ago bought a house.
So people stop the complaining and get a job or cut off your expensive cell phone bills. Anyone can get medical insurance (I have always had it). Sorry if this bothers some of you. Oh and by the way some of us do have to pay more because of people running to emergency rooms for colds,other unnecessary reasons and for them not paying their bills. Do you think that is fair for everyone else? I don't think so.

One quick question; what state were you living in when you did all this?

Still Minnesota, never lived anywhere else.

Some facts about Minnesota that might bear hearing out here. Minnesota is not rated to have exceptionally high costs of living. That means the minimum wage you worked for was much closer to the market floor for wages in your area. This is as opposed to places like New York, with high costs of living, where the federal minimum wage is too low, and nobody works for it. Minnesota has lower housing costs than significant portions of the country, and also has a substantially lower crime rate, meaning there's less likelihood of a tradeoff between housing costs and safety. Insurance premiums in Minnesota are in the lower half of state markets, with your individual premiums in the lowest ten state markets. You have an 8% unemployment rate according to the bls, and that represents only a 2.6 percentage point increase over your 2008 performance. So, your state has been hit by the recession, but certainly hasn't been met with the hilt of the sword like some of your neighbors (Michigan, for example, is in a full fledged depression with a 15.2% unemployment rate). You had a stable partner with you when you moved in together, many people do not have this advantage and in tough economies it's difficult for both partners to find work. I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishment, but you do need to consider the context in which you achieved it. What you did, working for minimum wage, living independently, buying a house, and maintaining health insurance throughout it all would simply not be possible were some of your surrounding circumstances different.

You are correct with your unemployment rates. You are missing one piece of information thou. Our taxes in minnesota are more than a lot of other states (including Michigan(except your gas tax is more)). Here is a site that lists all taxes by state.
www.retirementliving.com/RLstate2.html
I would still have to say that it is not always easy, but in most cases you can make it fine. Of course it will keep getting worse with our leader that we have right now.  

[goodshot911SNK]

lol ty Washington state my god it is the most beautiful state with alot of republicans but in the city idiots run free and they are in charge of my state it sucks taxes are like unplayable and lord they don't even fix stuff like we had a really bad earthwatke in 2001 and are viaduct was critically wounded we still have not fixed it or destroyed it or rebuilt and next little earthquake witch we do get good sized ones its gonna go.  

[Latopazora]

Reading through this thread, we're real quick to mention "lazy" people who don't want to work, and then the elderly, disabled, people who really can't find work. I do agree, we shouldn't shoulder the costs of those who do not want to work to live. But as for those who can't work, for whatever reasons and there are good reasons- health care costs are through the roofs.
We do need to reform health care, I agree, something has to be done. The costs of health care can be reduced, so people like the elderly, disabled, unemployed can get quality health care. What we need to do take care of the reason the health care is so high in the first place.
For 1) frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers. I'm not saying we shouldn't sue bad doctors, but we shouldn't make it so easy for gold diggers to sue any doctor. These lawsuits are paid for through malpractice insurance, which the doctor must pay if they want to practice.
2) is overprice medical education- as we know, tuition is through the roof, and medical education is one the most expensive. So, doctors also have to pay off their huge student loans. Those two are huge costs the doctor has to add to the bill if they wish to take some money home to take care of their family.
Then 3) there the states that do not allow their residents to purchase insurance from other states, killing competition for the insurance companies in those states. And w/o competition, the rates go up.
I notice the government, whose doing its best to fight all private evil institutions, they're not going after lawyers or professors. I'm not sure how to deal with the rates of medical school, but we can at least stop the frivolous lawsuits and require all states to allow purchase of out-of-state insurance. That would make health care affordable to a larger majority of the populace.  

[goodshot911SNK]

I think that another factor is the stats disability waiting list.In my state it is a seven year wait to get disability and thus the sick can not pay for there meds.My mother has bin waiting five or six years for hers we think she is going to get it rite before christmas but that's what we herd last year but we knew that was not true.I honestly don't know why it is a seven your wait but i do know most states are not close to that.  

[Pumona]

Latopazora

Reading through this thread, we're real quick to mention "lazy" people who don't want to work, and then the elderly, disabled, people who really can't find work. I do agree, we shouldn't shoulder the costs of those who do not want to work to live. But as for those who can't work, for whatever reasons and there are good reasons- health care costs are through the roofs.
We do need to reform health care, I agree, something has to be done. The costs of health care can be reduced, so people like the elderly, disabled, unemployed can get quality health care. What we need to do take care of the reason the health care is so high in the first place.
For 1) frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers. I'm not saying we shouldn't sue bad doctors, but we shouldn't make it so easy for gold diggers to sue any doctor. These lawsuits are paid for through malpractice insurance, which the doctor must pay if they want to practice.
2) is overprice medical education- as we know, tuition is through the roof, and medical education is one the most expensive. So, doctors also have to pay off their huge student loans. Those two are huge costs the doctor has to add to the bill if they wish to take some money home to take care of their family.
Then 3) there the states that do not allow their residents to purchase insurance from other states, killing competition for the insurance companies in those states. And w/o competition, the rates go up.
I notice the government, whose doing its best to fight all private evil institutions, they're not going after lawyers or professors. I'm not sure how to deal with the rates of medical school, but we can at least stop the frivolous lawsuits and require all states to allow purchase of out-of-state insurance. That would make health care affordable to a larger majority of the populace.

I agree, healthcare for the elderly is really expensive. Another issue is for services that are done at a clinic or hospital cost way to much. For example $5000.00 to stay one night at a hospital and half the time they do not even feed you. Prices need to be reduced at these levels to help the elderly.  

[goodshot911SNK]

yeah when my mother shows me what the costs are of haer tests and meds are without are vary good insurance i about fell over you really don't know till you've seen it one of my mothers dumb doctors did before she dropped him is make her get a drug tests they tested her for like 10 different things it would have posted something like 2500.00 for that she still had to pay like 200 bucks but with 50K surgery's (without insurance) and stuff like that we don't have 2 hundred dollars  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

1) frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers. I'm not saying we shouldn't sue bad doctors, but we shouldn't make it so easy for gold diggers to sue any doctor. These lawsuits are paid for through malpractice insurance, which the doctor must pay if they want to practice.

A salient point. The problem, however, won't go away simply because we add a few more hoops to the civil suit process. There will always be the potential for a suit that looks bad, though grounded in sound medical procedure. That then will go to a jury that has the collective medical education between them to put a bandaid on a cut. Hospitals will still practice defensive medicine, still carry malpractice insurance, still have to retain attorneys to protect from lawsuits, and still have to pay out damages periodically. So, I will challenge one of your fundamental assertions. I say we shouldn't even be able to sue the bad doctors. Eliminate all malpractice law, and switch to a system where your insurance covers any health issues you incur as a result of malpractice. I know it sounds radical, but it's worked before in the field of automotive accident law, where we scrapped the system of suing for fault in the accident to one where the insurance companies cover your damages. The result has been to alleviate congestion in the courts and simplify the processes that happen as a result of accidents. Like with automotive, the state medical licensing board should still review malpractice complaints and decide if doctors should continue to practice medicine, but it should no longer be in the hands of civil courts. The benefits of a civil remedy system for bad medical outcomes simply do not justify the massive social cost of a health insurance system that is unaffordable to masses of people and has bankrupted employers.

Quote:

2) is overprice medical education- as we know, tuition is through the roof, and medical education is one the most expensive. So, doctors also have to pay off their huge student loans. Those two are huge costs the doctor has to add to the bill if they wish to take some money home to take care of their family.

The issue then is how to deal with these tuition costs. We can't simply get into tuition controls for the medical colleges. That's not going to work. Most of these schools rely on alumni donations to stay above board, meaning that tuition isn't sufficient to cover the operational costs. Limiting tuition would simply hit revenue harder. There is the issue of universities that focus on research, and student tuition in part going to help fuel research universities. While this helps inflate the costs of a medical education, not all universities are research universities. The real cost is a systematic one. It doesn't take a post-graduate education to diagnose pink eye. But, guess what sort of education the man you're going to go to for treatment of that pink eye has. That's needless. If my car has a cracked oil pump, I don't go to an automotive engineer, I go to a mechanic. We don't have mechanics for people, we have people engineers. That too is wasteful. There's no reason why we should clog our emergency rooms with people seeking treatment for the most basic of conditions and overwhelm the few doctors on staff with things you could treat on an associates degree. So, the answer to problem 2 is deregulation. Allow much less intensive degrees to treat much less serious conditions. Small clinics run by associate educated staff could alleviate much of the problem of medical care being burdened by the high costs of post-graduate tuition.

3 is a good point on face. No need for further elaboration.  

[goodshot911SNK]

wow that made sense and i wasn't confused when i read it  

[Hallie Neko-chan]

Latopazora

Reading through this thread, we're real quick to mention "lazy" people who don't want to work, and then the elderly, disabled, people who really can't find work. I do agree, we shouldn't shoulder the costs of those who do not want to work to live. But as for those who can't work, for whatever reasons and there are good reasons- health care costs are through the roofs.
We do need to reform health care, I agree, something has to be done. The costs of health care can be reduced, so people like the elderly, disabled, unemployed can get quality health care. What we need to do take care of the reason the health care is so high in the first place.
For 1) frivolous lawsuits and greedy lawyers. I'm not saying we shouldn't sue bad doctors, but we shouldn't make it so easy for gold diggers to sue any doctor. These lawsuits are paid for through malpractice insurance, which the doctor must pay if they want to practice.
2) is overprice medical education- as we know, tuition is through the roof, and medical education is one the most expensive. So, doctors also have to pay off their huge student loans. Those two are huge costs the doctor has to add to the bill if they wish to take some money home to take care of their family.
Then 3) there the states that do not allow their residents to purchase insurance from other states, killing competition for the insurance companies in those states. And w/o competition, the rates go up.
I notice the government, whose doing its best to fight all private evil institutions, they're not going after lawyers or professors. I'm not sure how to deal with the rates of medical school, but we can at least stop the frivolous lawsuits and require all states to allow purchase of out-of-state insurance. That would make health care affordable to a larger majority of the populace.

You are right. Although, it seems that this system is backwards. Recently, my dad who had been laid off and was looking for work tried to apply for health care. He is in his mid-fifties, like I'd mentioned earlier. Anyway, he applied for medical assistance and was turned down. What's worse is my step-mother lost her job and came down with a serious illness, and now, they don't have insurance so they have a ridiculous hospital bill to pay for.

I wish that this system could take a closer look at everything and be able to tell the difference between the struggling people and elderly, or the people who just plain don't want to work.

I am all for helping people who are trying to help themselves, but I've seen way too much of people abusing that system, and the struggling people paying for the consequences of it.

As far as lawyers go, that is true as well. And schooling. Everything is getting overpriced nowadays.  

[Enoine]

First, the bill mandates that beginning in 2013 any American not provided with health insurance as part of their employment benefit package must purchase their own policy. Non-compliance with this mandate would result in a penalty of 2.5% of the taxpayer’s adjusted gross income. There are notable exemptions to this dictate, however, including anyone not required to file income tax returns. Also, while illegal immigrants are prohibited from receiving federal financial aid for the purchase of insurance, they would be permitted to use their own money to buy a policy provided by the federal government.

Above is a paragraph from an article I just read on the proposed healthcare bill. I will post a link to it for those who care to read at the end of this post. I just wanted to say that what really gets to me is that it is this is aimed to start in 2013, when Obama may not even BE President anymore. Now, I don't know how easily it would be to remove this bill or to reinstate a new one once we get someone who knows what the hell is going on in their, but until then only one word is going through my mind with Obama in charge. "s**t".

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/health-care/2269-house-healthcare-bill-medicare-for-a-new-millennium