Ugh

[oOGarrettOo]

The God and Goddess who?

And of course it would bother you. It'd bother anyone. No one likes being picked on, and we have a special name for those who do wink Just gotta figure out how to cope with it. 3nodding  

[TheStarlessSkye]

oOGarrettOo

The God and Goddess who?

And of course it would bother you. It'd bother anyone. No one likes being picked on, and we have a special name for those who do wink Just gotta figure out how to cope with it. 3nodding

Well I did a rite, invoked the Lord and Lady from Scott Cunningham's book, but I changed it to fit my liking, I felt strong energy and presences, so I suppose it must have been them.

I know people say "Oh, you can't know the Lord and Lady without being in a coven". I don't believe that. I believe ANYONE, ANYWHERE can know them, contact them, and work with them how they wish to. Be it watching the Sun and chanting, doing a rite and summoning them, leaving offerings on their altar, etc.  

[oOGarrettOo]

Azareas Aquarinus

Well I did a rite, invoked the Lord and Lady from Scott Cunningham's book, but I changed it to fit my liking, I felt strong energy and presences, so I suppose it must have been them.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it's who you think they were, especially since Cunningham isn't all that descriptive about who they are either. Unless you have a sure-as-hell idea of who they are and who you're aiming to reach, honestly, they could be anyone. This is a worrisome development and I'd take the necessary steps to find out exactly who these beings are, by name. And I say beings because as vague as it is to think "I invoke whoever this guy is talking about" means just about anything could be hovering around.

Which, oddly enough, could even have something to do with the drama at school.

Quote:

I know people say "Oh, you can't know the Lord and Lady without being in a coven". I don't believe that. I believe ANYONE, ANYWHERE can know them, contact them, and work with them how they wish to. Be it watching the Sun and chanting, doing a rite and summoning them, leaving offerings on their altar, etc.

Now don't get your panties in a knot, I didn't say anything negative about your "God and Goddess". I just asked who they were since I'm a mildly hard polytheist and title alone doesn't do it for me neutral

On that note, I'm not one to believe that "just anything" will do as offerings for a deity. If I were to offer Kali bright pink tulips and fruit punch, I wouldn't blame her if she struck me dead for doing something so obviously ignorant.

So don't get all uppity with me, I'm trying to help you.  

[TheStarlessSkye]

oOGarrettOo

Azareas Aquarinus

Well I did a rite, invoked the Lord and Lady from Scott Cunningham's book, but I changed it to fit my liking, I felt strong energy and presences, so I suppose it must have been them.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it's who you think they were, especially since Cunningham isn't all that descriptive about who they are either. Unless you have a sure-as-hell idea of who they are and who you're aiming to reach, honestly, they could be anyone. This is a worrisome development and I'd take the necessary steps to find out exactly who these beings are, by name. And I say beings because as vague as it is to think "I invoke whoever this guy is talking about" means just about anything could be hovering around.

Which, oddly enough, could even have something to do with the drama at school.

Quote:

I know people say "Oh, you can't know the Lord and Lady without being in a coven". I don't believe that. I believe ANYONE, ANYWHERE can know them, contact them, and work with them how they wish to. Be it watching the Sun and chanting, doing a rite and summoning them, leaving offerings on their altar, etc.

Now don't get your panties in a knot, I didn't say anything negative about your "God and Goddess". I just asked who they were since I'm a mildly hard polytheist and title alone doesn't do it for me neutral

On that note, I'm not one to believe that "just anything" will do as offerings for a deity. If I were to offer Kali bright pink tulips and fruit punch, I wouldn't blame her if she struck me dead for doing something so obviously ignorant.

So don't get all uppity with me, I'm trying to help you.

Well, I was careful with the Invocation, and I closed my eyes to envision the deities, it looked like them to me. And it was only a consecration rite.

How could I find out who they are? My pendulum?

And it isn't the cause of the drama. The drama happens all the time, be it discrimination against my faith or otherwise. The discrimination happened BEFORE I did the rite. Not the most recent event, but the one before it.


And sorry sweatdrop  

[oOGarrettOo]

Azareas Aquarinus

Well, I was careful with the Invocation, and I closed my eyes to envision the deities, it looked like them to me. And it was only a consecration rite.

How could I find out who they are? My pendulum?

Good meditation and being firm in who you want to contact. You need to know without a doubt that who you're looking for is who you're looking for. It's a difficult thing really. Perhaps someone with more experience working with deity would be able to better help you.  

[TheStarlessSkye]

oOGarrettOo

Azareas Aquarinus

Well, I was careful with the Invocation, and I closed my eyes to envision the deities, it looked like them to me. And it was only a consecration rite.

How could I find out who they are? My pendulum?

Good meditation and being firm in who you want to contact. You need to know without a doubt that who you're looking for is who you're looking for. It's a difficult thing really. Perhaps someone with more experience working with deity would be able to better help you.

Anyone in the guild who can help?  

[Morgandria]

Azareas Aquarinus

oOGarrettOo

Azareas Aquarinus

Well, I was careful with the Invocation, and I closed my eyes to envision the deities, it looked like them to me. And it was only a consecration rite.

How could I find out who they are? My pendulum?

Good meditation and being firm in who you want to contact. You need to know without a doubt that who you're looking for is who you're looking for. It's a difficult thing really. Perhaps someone with more experience working with deity would be able to better help you.

Anyone in the guild who can help?

You envisioned what the Lord and Lady look like, to you. You still have no way of verifying that image with Wiccan lore than it is indeed their specific god and goddess. That's the problem with saying they're definetely one thing or the other - you're missing the specific knowledge of the specific deities of Wicca to be able to verify that.

'Lord' and 'Lady' aren't names. They're titles, honourifics - and ones that other deities or entities may choose to answer to. The Gods of Wicca are best served by their oathbound rites - and while I think it isn't impossible for them to answer calls from other rituals, you have no guarantee they'd have any interest in rituals done outside of the Wica.

You may even be building your own egregore or thoughtform shaped as the deity you wish to contact. If your gods do exactly what you think they should, or say to you exactly what you want to hear, or act outside their lore...there's always a chance we've created a god for ourselves. You can test this in various ways - usually, gods acting far outside their lore is a sign they're thoughtforms, as well as if the gods give you whatever you ask for without asking for anything in return ever, or never disagree with you or say no. Gods that always arrive at your beck and call, or follow you everywhere are also a good sign of a thoughtform.

I find the simplest way to make contact with unknown entities is to light a candle, usually white, offer some simple incense (if I know the identity of the entity, I offer specific things they like, or candles in colours they prefer, but this is different), and state your intention. Be clear - you'd want to say something like 'Deities whom I made contact with in my last ritual - I would like to see you again, and I would like to know who you are. Please share with me your names, or give me some help to identify you." Then you can meditate and await an answer. If one isn't forthcoming, don't panic. You may instead get a sign or hint in your daily life over the next few days. You can also do this right before bed - meditate before sleeping, and they may answer in dreams.  

[Esiris]

Azareas Aquarinus

Esiris

Some of the work with the Loa I know about involves feeding them and doing things to make it so that when people say bullshit about you- it becomes really obvious they're lying. That has it's own social consequences.

Yes, they are lying. But they're not clever enough to look deep into it. It simply just "passes over them". They don't think before acting.

I'm not sure you understand how that working goes. When you find out someone is lying to your face- how do you feel?

oOGarrettOo

Which, oddly enough, could even have something to do with the drama at school.

That's a really good point I hadn't thought of before.

When I think about it- and all the drama that flows around the "High School cliques covens", maybe one of the reasons there's so much trouble is because the people doing the invoking are putting out generic calls because they're soft polytheists and someone or something that gets a kick out of watching them squirm is answering and stirring up drama.  

[TheStarlessSkye]

Morgandria

Azareas Aquarinus

oOGarrettOo

Azareas Aquarinus

Well, I was careful with the Invocation, and I closed my eyes to envision the deities, it looked like them to me. And it was only a consecration rite.

How could I find out who they are? My pendulum?

Good meditation and being firm in who you want to contact. You need to know without a doubt that who you're looking for is who you're looking for. It's a difficult thing really. Perhaps someone with more experience working with deity would be able to better help you.

Anyone in the guild who can help?

You envisioned what the Lord and Lady look like, to you. You still have no way of verifying that image with Wiccan lore than it is indeed their specific god and goddess. That's the problem with saying they're definetely one thing or the other - you're missing the specific knowledge of the specific deities of Wicca to be able to verify that.

'Lord' and 'Lady' aren't names. They're titles, honourifics - and ones that other deities or entities may choose to answer to. The Gods of Wicca are best served by their oathbound rites - and while I think it isn't impossible for them to answer calls from other rituals, you have no guarantee they'd have any interest in rituals done outside of the Wica.

You may even be building your own egregore or thoughtform shaped as the deity you wish to contact. If your gods do exactly what you think they should, or say to you exactly what you want to hear, or act outside their lore...there's always a chance we've created a god for ourselves. You can test this in various ways - usually, gods acting far outside their lore is a sign they're thoughtforms, as well as if the gods give you whatever you ask for without asking for anything in return ever, or never disagree with you or say no. Gods that always arrive at your beck and call, or follow you everywhere are also a good sign of a thoughtform.

I find the simplest way to make contact with unknown entities is to light a candle, usually white, offer some simple incense (if I know the identity of the entity, I offer specific things they like, or candles in colours they prefer, but this is different), and state your intention. Be clear - you'd want to say something like 'Deities whom I made contact with in my last ritual - I would like to see you again, and I would like to know who you are. Please share with me your names, or give me some help to identify you." Then you can meditate and await an answer. If one isn't forthcoming, don't panic. You may instead get a sign or hint in your daily life over the next few days. You can also do this right before bed - meditate before sleeping, and they may answer in dreams.

No, I know I said I envisioned how I see them, but what I meant was, I felt them through me, and I closed my eyes within the rite and meditated. When I meditated, I saw them. It could be how I want to see what I invoked, but I don't think it was. If it feels right, and the deity I wanted to invoke, then it must have been them. And after I did the rite, the room felt good, and pure. And on that night I felt a calling from the moon, as well as having a dream.

As far as I can tell, I feel as if you're jumping to a conclusion and telling me that what I invoked caused something bad to stir. Well, you weren't there when the rite was performed, that's all I can say. You didn't feel what I felt. You may have felt something like it, I don't know. For me, it's hard to explain the feeling of energy.

I'm not having a go at you, just telling you some things on my side of the discussion.

It may have not been THE Goddess and God of Wicca, but two of their many faces. Did you think of that?


I'll try the candle thing. Thanks.  

[TheStarlessSkye]

Esiris

Azareas Aquarinus

Esiris

Some of the work with the Loa I know about involves feeding them and doing things to make it so that when people say bullshit about you- it becomes really obvious they're lying. That has it's own social consequences.

Yes, they are lying. But they're not clever enough to look deep into it. It simply just "passes over them". They don't think before acting.

I'm not sure you understand how that working goes. When you find out someone is lying to your face- how do you feel?

oOGarrettOo

Which, oddly enough, could even have something to do with the drama at school.

That's a really good point I hadn't thought of before.

When I think about it- and all the drama that flows around the "High School cliques covens", maybe one of the reasons there's so much trouble is because the people doing the invoking are putting out generic calls because they're soft polytheists and someone or something that gets a kick out of watching them squirm is answering and stirring up drama.

When someone lies to me, I feel annoyed and angry. But, I have studied psychology, so I can tell when someone lies. But it's hard to watch their eyes to see if their blood pressure goes up.  

[oOGarrettOo]

Esiris

That's a really good point I hadn't thought of before.

When I think about it- and all the drama that flows around the "High School cliques covens", maybe one of the reasons there's so much trouble is because the people doing the invoking are putting out generic calls because they're soft polytheists and someone or something that gets a kick out of watching them squirm is answering and stirring up drama.

=O how true. It's too bad the world isn't open enough to let these things be taught honestly in school, it could save these cliques a lot of drama, not only because it would have the respect of being a valid thing, but also it could go over how invocation, especially at novice level, doesn't always go according to plan.

Heh, it's a good thing I never tried invoking anything when I was still in school xp  

[oOGarrettOo]

Azareas Aquarinus

It may have not been THE Goddess and God of Wicca, but two of their many faces. Did you think of that?

Which faces would those be?  

[Morgandria]

Azareas Aquarinus

As far as I can tell, I feel as if you're jumping to a conclusion and telling me that what I invoked caused something bad to stir. Well, you weren't there when the rite was performed, that's all I can say. You didn't feel what I felt. You may have felt something like it, I don't know. For me, it's hard to explain the feeling of energy.

I'm not having a go at you, just telling you some things on my side of the discussion.

It may have not been THE Goddess and God of Wicca, but two of their many faces. Did you think of that?


I'll try the candle thing. Thanks.

I in no way meant to say you were causing anything negative to happen - I don't feel that's the case at all. I was just trying to lay things out from my perspective, for you to consider.

It's possible, without meaning to, to create thoughforms out of our own strongest held desires. It's not a bad thing - but neither are those creations the same as actual deities. Many people aren't aware of thoughtforms, and that they can be created thus. It's just a possibility, and one I'm always aware of when I interact with the Gods - it would be hypocritical of me to call out others on potentially delusional behavior if I allowed it in myself. I wasn't in any way saying authoritatively that you were making up your own gods - rather, I was attempting to alert you to the possibility of doing so. I apologize if it seemed I was being rude or dismissive.

I am not a soft polytheist; rather, I am a hard polytheist. I do not believe in one overarching God or Goddess of which there are 'facets', 'aspects', or 'faces'. I have a hard time understanding that perspective, given that cultural differences make what is holy for one pantheon anaethma to another. I believe the Gods to be distinct, unique, and separate individuals from one another.

I'm not saying you didn't reach some kind of Lord and Lady - in fact, it's very likely you did. But many entities may answer to those titles - it's possible these are the same gods as the Wica serve, but without being an initiate you lack the ability to verify that one way or the other.

And, as Riri said, some deities/entitles -really- like being s**t disturbers. It's entirely possible you've attracted the attention of one of them, and your current situation is in part due to that. Not all deities have our well-being in their interests.  

[Esiris]

Azareas Aquarinus

When someone lies to me, I feel annoyed and angry.

Ok- what happens when you get annoyed and angry at someone who has lied to you?  

[TheStarlessSkye]

oOGarrettOo

Azareas Aquarinus

It may have not been THE Goddess and God of Wicca, but two of their many faces. Did you think of that?

Which faces would those be?

Did I mention that in my Invocation I called on Cernunnos and Diana?