Wearing a Cross

[Esiris]

Ravynne Sidhe

The issue is that devotion to the Lord and Lady has to be more of a priority than YHVH.

My HPS hasn't said my other religion would have to come after my service to the Lord and Lady, so if someone can practice whatever other kind of paganism and Wicca, I don't see how your statement makes much sense.

I wouldn't try and be a Christian and a Wiccan, and I wouldn't call it a good idea either, but just going by what you said- it doesn't make sense to me.  

[rmcdra]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

It can't. Within the Ten Commandment set down by God it says that one cannot worship any other gods.

Depends on how worship is defined. In my tradition of Christianity, worship is defined as emulation. Giving praise and offerings are nice but not necessary and come secondary to emulating the Christ. I am free to give praises and offerings to whatever gods I want to just as long as it doesn't interfer with emulating Christ or makes me where I am enslaved to that god.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

neko-mata-01

yeah but the tradition of putting crosses on graves comes largely form Christianity confused
also its only a crucifix if it has Jesus' body on it. which of course also implies Christianity. its true that it is a method of execution, but for some reason (since it was a gift apparently) that seems a little weird xD

It does come from Christianity. It is now a massive symbol of death because of that tradition, and there is a secular association there to the point where a cross will mark a place of death without the assumption that any individual is Christian.

Not just in roadside crosses either - crosses are a popular symbol in goth culture because of the association with death and places of burial.

I didn't use the word "crucifix". I said the cross is a method of execution - and it is. It's called "crucifixion", from the Latin meaning "to fix to a cross". Jesus was hardly the only person to die in this manner. The cross is as potent a symbol of death as the gallows or the guillotine.

Now the gallows is a symbol of Odin, but not everyone is going to think "Odin" when they see a gallows and I have no problem with that myself.

I say again - I live in and was raised in a secular culture. Christianity is not the only nor the first place my mind goes when I see a cross of any kind, and I'm far from the only person who feels this way. The most frequent place you see crosses here is on the side of the road.

Symbols do change in their meaning and some interpretations become more strongly associated than others. Need we bring up the example of the swastika? The pentagram?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

rmcdra

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

It can't. Within the Ten Commandment set down by God it says that one cannot worship any other gods.

Depends on how worship is defined. In my tradition of Christianity, worship is defined as emulation. Giving praise and offerings are nice but not necessary and come secondary to emulating the Christ. I am free to give praises and offerings to whatever gods I want to just as long as it doesn't interfer with emulating Christ or makes me where I am enslaved to that god.

I feel though that that interpretation would take the verse out of context. The Jews had a tendency to adopt worship of Caananite gods (in fact YHWH may be El himself). I really can't imagine that given this context, it meant "bow to them, honour them, give them offerings and sacrifices if you like, just don't emulate them".

Of course one might choose to ignore the ten commandments and that's fine, I just don't think you can read that commandment in the way you've described.  

[rmcdra]

To the OP:

It's a gift from your mom and it has value to you, wear it. Don't let others give you s**t for thier ignorance or their bigotry. If they still hassle you about wearing it after you explain that it's a memento, it's their problem, not yours. Have confidence in yourself and don't let your peers bully you.  

[neko-mata-01]

Sanguina Cruenta

neko-mata-01

yeah but the tradition of putting crosses on graves comes largely form Christianity confused
also its only a crucifix if it has Jesus' body on it. which of course also implies Christianity. its true that it is a method of execution, but for some reason (since it was a gift apparently) that seems a little weird xD

It does come from Christianity. It is now a massive symbol of death because of that tradition, and there is a secular association there to the point where a cross will mark a place of death without the assumption that any individual is Christian.

Not just in roadside crosses either - crosses are a popular symbol in goth culture because of the association with death and places of burial.

I didn't use the word "crucifix". I said the cross is a method of execution - and it is. It's called "crucifixion", from the Latin meaning "to fix to a cross". Jesus was hardly the only person to die in this manner. The cross is as potent a symbol of death as the gallows or the guillotine.

Now the gallows is a symbol of Odin, but not everyone is going to think "Odin" when they see a gallows and I have no problem with that myself.

I say again - I live in and was raised in a secular culture. Christianity is not the only nor the first place my mind goes when I see a cross of any kind, and I'm far from the only person who feels this way. The most frequent place you see crosses here is on the side of the road.

Symbols do change in their meaning and some interpretations become more strongly associated than others. Need we bring up the example of the swastika? The pentagram?

im sorry about the crucifix thing. i actually forgot to change that while writing it. because i meant to say that as long as its not a crucifix its not directly related to Christianity. however that connotation does remain.
and yes the pentagram and swastika are good examples. (for people not familiar with them)
the pentagram is associated with evil, satanism, etc
despite this its also used in, for example, Taoism to represent 5 elements
the swastika is also used in things such as Japanese culture where it can imply good luck (yep absolutely no relation to Nazis or antisemitism)  

[rmcdra]

Sanguina Cruenta

rmcdra

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

It can't. Within the Ten Commandment set down by God it says that one cannot worship any other gods.

Depends on how worship is defined. In my tradition of Christianity, worship is defined as emulation. Giving praise and offerings are nice but not necessary and come secondary to emulating the Christ. I am free to give praises and offerings to whatever gods I want to just as long as it doesn't interfer with emulating Christ or makes me where I am enslaved to that god.

I feel though that that interpretation would take the verse out of context. The Jews had a tendency to adopt worship of Caananite gods (in fact YHWH may be El himself). I really can't imagine that given this context, it meant "bow to them, honour them, give them offerings and sacrifices if you like, just don't emulate them".

Of course one might choose to ignore the ten commandments and that's fine, I just don't think you can read that commandment in the way you've described.

Worship in the early Christian context was different then today or from other religions at the time of it's origins. "Worship Christ" meant "emulate Christ" or so my mentor has taught me. In Judaism, worship meant worship, not emulation. That was unique to early Christianity. You can't emulate YHVH in Judaism, depending on how you see YHVH it's either not even possible and/or hubristic.

Yes you are right, it did mean something stricter in Judaism. But things are interpreted differently in my tradition.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

neko-mata-01

im sorry about the crucifix thing. i actually forgot to change that while writing it. because i meant to say that as long as its not a crucifix its not directly related to Christianity. however that connotation does remain.
and yes the pentagram and swastika are good examples. (for people not familiar with them)
the pentagram is associated with evil, satanism, etc
despite this its also used in, for example, Taoism to represent 5 elements
the swastika is also used in things such as Japanese culture where it can imply good luck (yep absolutely no relation to Nazis or anti antisemitism)

The swastika is actually a very sad example, because it's almost a world-wide positive symbol. It appears in some American cultures, in Hinduism, in Norse Paganism. It's remarkable that it's so widespread a symbol, but all of those uses are eclipsed. Which ******** pisses me off.

The pentagram is also associated with Christianity and can represent the five wounds of Christ.  

[neko-mata-01]

Sanguina Cruenta

neko-mata-01

im sorry about the crucifix thing. i actually forgot to change that while writing it. because i meant to say that as long as its not a crucifix its not directly related to Christianity. however that connotation does remain.
and yes the pentagram and swastika are good examples. (for people not familiar with them)
the pentagram is associated with evil, satanism, etc
despite this its also used in, for example, Taoism to represent 5 elements
the swastika is also used in things such as Japanese culture where it can imply good luck (yep absolutely no relation to Nazis or antisemitism)

The swastika is actually a very sad example, because it's almost a world-wide positive symbol. It appears in some American cultures, in Hinduism, in Norse Paganism. It's remarkable that it's so widespread a symbol, but all of those uses are eclipsed. Which ******** pisses me off.

The pentagram is also associated with Christianity and can represent the five wounds of Christ.

yep its kinda annoying
(also i noticed i accidentally put anti twice XD)  

[Venra Axel Prey]

rmcdra

To the OP:

It's a gift from your mom and it has value to you, wear it. Don't let others give you s**t for thier ignorance or their bigotry. If they still hassle you about wearing it after you explain that it's a memento, it's their problem, not yours. Have confidence in yourself and don't let your peers bully you.

Thank you, dearie. I shall do so C:  

[rmcdra]

Venra Axel Prey

rmcdra

To the OP:

It's a gift from your mom and it has value to you, wear it. Don't let others give you s**t for thier ignorance or their bigotry. If they still hassle you about wearing it after you explain that it's a memento, it's their problem, not yours. Have confidence in yourself and don't let your peers bully you.

Thank you, dearie. I shall do so C:

No problem. Also I, as a Christian, don't find it offensive that you, or any pagan, wears a cross.  

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

rmcdra

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

It can't. Within the Ten Commandment set down by God it says that one cannot worship any other gods.

Depends on how worship is defined. In my tradition of Christianity, worship is defined as emulation. Giving praise and offerings are nice but not necessary and come secondary to emulating the Christ. I am free to give praises and offerings to whatever gods I want to just as long as it doesn't interfer with emulating Christ or makes me where I am enslaved to that god.

But from what I've seen from when I went to church was even thinking about other gods was putting them before God. One church I went to even went as far as saying that society was worshipping money.

It's from these couple branches of Christianity that makes me think it's not possible. But as you have pointed out it would be possible through yours but to me that gives me the feeling of just going through the motions somewhere.  

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

Sanguina Cruenta

neko-mata-01

im sorry about the crucifix thing. i actually forgot to change that while writing it. because i meant to say that as long as its not a crucifix its not directly related to Christianity. however that connotation does remain.
and yes the pentagram and swastika are good examples. (for people not familiar with them)
the pentagram is associated with evil, satanism, etc
despite this its also used in, for example, Taoism to represent 5 elements
the swastika is also used in things such as Japanese culture where it can imply good luck (yep absolutely no relation to Nazis or anti antisemitism)

The swastika is actually a very sad example, because it's almost a world-wide positive symbol. It appears in some American cultures, in Hinduism, in Norse Paganism. It's remarkable that it's so widespread a symbol, but all of those uses are eclipsed. Which ******** pisses me off.

The pentagram is also associated with Christianity and can represent the five wounds of Christ.

Wasn't the swastika also associated with Hermes in Greek mythology?  

[rmcdra]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

But from what I've seen from when I went to church was even thinking about other gods was putting them before God. One church I went to even went as far as saying that society was worshipping money.

Yeah for a lot of churches that's common. Other churches would regard it as being superstitious since they don't believe such beings exist. In some ways I'd agree in that there seems to be this streak of materialism developing lately where there are many who are more concerned with a massive income at the expense of others and will neglect the poor and needed, regarding them as "getting what they deserve".

You also have the other extreme in some Christian traditions, New Age Christians, who regard all gods as various aspects of YHVH.

Quote:

It's from these couple branches of Christianity that makes me think it's not possible. But as you have pointed out it would be possible through yours but to me that gives me the feeling of just going through the motions somewhere.

Understandable. My tradition is a bit of an anomaly and a work in progress.

I don't feel that way personally. I probably wouldn't be able to give a life long commitment to any other deity but if I am given the feeling that there was a god who gave me a favor or I needed to ask another god for a favor, I'm free to offer prayer, praise, and offerings, under the pre-established conditions of course.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

Wasn't the swastika also associated with Hermes in Greek mythology?

I don't know! Could be.