The Choice

[FireonYce]

Isis horis and Osiris I believe are worshiped in a triad for the most part. To my knowledge i could be wrong. They are the family triad i believe? They are by far the most popular. As for books its always best to learn up on egyptian history and mythology a bit before delving into the religious side. Because everything was religion to the egyptians therefore the best place to start I say is in thier general history. ^^  

[FireonYce]

Nihilistic Seraph

Just a warning though, that site isn't very accurate. Isis wasn't the only Goddess from the Egyptian pantheon to be displayed with wings; Ma'at also was often shown with them. The ankh as well is not just rhe symbol of Eternal Life. In fact, as we have so little about the Egyptians, we're really not very sure what the true meaning is.

I believe along with being the symbol of life it was also a symbol connecting the heavens earth. It Was also a good luck charm along with the eye of horus. They were both commonly used in the upper families to bestow good luck to them on days when they felt the need.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Christo Minaverus

Isis horis and Osiris I believe are worshiped in a triad for the most part. To my knowledge i could be wrong. They are the family triad i believe? They are by far the most popular. As for books its always best to learn up on egyptian history and mythology a bit before delving into the religious side. Because everything was religion to the egyptians therefore the best place to start I say is in thier general history. ^^

Aren't Horus and Osiris related by Father-Son bond? Horus being the son of the sun, pun intended?  

[The Bookwyrm]

Nihilistic Seraph

Aren't Horus and Osiris related by Father-Son bond? Horus being the son of the sun, pun intended?

I can't confirm the pun itself, but Horis is indeed the son of Osiris and the son of Isis, concieved after Osiris's death after Isis had reunited all of the scattered pieces of Osiris's body. Osiris then assumed the throne of the Underworld.  

[Ezinu]

Christo Minaverus

Isis horis and Osiris I believe are worshiped in a triad for the most part. To my knowledge i could be wrong. They are the family triad i believe? They are by far the most popular. As for books its always best to learn up on egyptian history and mythology a bit before delving into the religious side. Because everything was religion to the egyptians therefore the best place to start I say is in thier general history. ^^

well i prety much got the general histroy still in my mind from high school and yes relgion was a very active part of life or is it the other way around lifes a very active part of the religion. In the culter what with there being a living god always around.  

[[Life is a Glitch]]

mouseyanna

the egyptan religion isnt my religion. Though it always has interested me but not on a spiritual basis. Shes the goddess who reached out to me and i accepted. I will incorpoate any traditional egyption ceromonies (im a horrible speller keep in mind) i can find relating to her to the best of my ablititys though.

Ah, I see. So, do you believe that all Goddesses are one Goddesses and all Gods are one God? Your Isis being but a face of the Goddess?  

[Ezinu]

[Life is a Glitch]

mouseyanna

the egyptan religion isnt my religion. Though it always has interested me but not on a spiritual basis. Shes the goddess who reached out to me and i accepted. I will incorpoate any traditional egyption ceromonies (im a horrible speller keep in mind) i can find relating to her to the best of my ablititys though.

Ah, I see. So, do you believe that all Goddesses are one Goddesses and all Gods are one God? Your Isis being but a face of the Goddess?

Umm no not really but the thought has occured to me in the past. I feel like they all come from one originating being though. Which may or may not be a goddess or a god or maby parenting gods! i have not figured that out. there is still alot that is hazy to me about my beliefs.  

[[Life is a Glitch]]

mouseyanna

[Life is a Glitch]

mouseyanna

the egyptan religion isnt my religion. Though it always has interested me but not on a spiritual basis. Shes the goddess who reached out to me and i accepted. I will incorpoate any traditional egyption ceromonies (im a horrible speller keep in mind) i can find relating to her to the best of my ablititys though.

Ah, I see. So, do you believe that all Goddesses are one Goddesses and all Gods are one God? Your Isis being but a face of the Goddess?

Umm no not really but the thought has occured to me in the past. I feel like they all come from one originating being though. Which may or may not be a goddess or a god or maby parenting gods! i have not figured that out. there is still alot that is hazy to me about my beliefs.

Mmm, I see. So are you saying that you believe all Gods and Goddesses are true beings in their own right, created from some sort of origional Diety?

Sorry if I am being nosy or coming off as rude. I am just always interested in other people's beliefs.  

[Ezinu]

its ok i dont mind yeah that seem right but maby its not a deity maby like something like a huge lump of clay that when there is need for a new diety by someone it pops one out. kinda like a humans need for a god or goddess brings one to life. That might just be coming from the fact that i relate things to art though.  

[WebenBanu]

Wow, lots to cover in this thread- so sorry if I leave anything out! I'll try to get to it all.

On using the Greek names of deities- I don't think that "offensive" is quite the right word for it, but it is certainly inaccurate. The Greeks basically created their own deities as spinoffs on the Egyptian originals, and so as Seraph mentions Thoth is quite different from Djhwty, and Isis a different goddess from Ast. Egyptological texts use the Greek names for some gods and goddesses because those were the names which were in use before they learned how to read hieroglyphs, and academia decided it was too much bother to switch from the Greek names which everyone was already used to using and substitude the more correct Egyptian names. So gods which were known before we learned to read the 'glyphs are commonly referred to by Greek names, and those discovered after the language was learned are referred to by Their Egyptian names. Another thing to note on this subject is that, since the hieroglyphs obviously aren't written in the Roman alphabet which most of academia is used to using, several systems of rendering them in text-print have developed. These are called "transliteration" systems, and since there are a few different versions, you might see the same name written in several different ways (Djhwty, Tehuty, and DHwtj for example, are all the Egyptian god Who is often simply called "Thoth")- they are all still pronounced the same way, they just use different symbols to represent the same sounds.

In my experience, the Egyptian gods will usually begin Their relationships with modern people under whatever name we know and recognize- after all, if Djhwty were to introduce Himself to most people by His Egyptian name, they'd have no clue what He was talking about, Who He was, or where to look for more information. In my case, I didn't even know Thoth- so He and Bast simply used the image of the ibis (one of His sacred animals) to get me looking. But words- and particularly names- are sacred and have power, and so the appropriate use of words and names is a very big thing in this path. It has, again, been my experience that once They establish a certain level of familiarity with a would-be devotee, They start sending nudges and hints toward a more traditional form of worship and address. Tradition is also big in the Egyptian religion and always has been- though there was some change in some aspects of the religion over time, the Egyptians overall did not consider "new and improved" to be an improvement. What mattered to them were the timeless things, the essence of the religion which did not change- and nothing was more pure or perfect than the form of the world right after it was first created, at the First Time, and traditional Egyptian religion teaches a continual return and renewal to this mythical event.

It has been my experience that the ntjrw (the Egyptian word for "gods") don't always come in pairs with Their consorts, although I do agree that it would not be a good idea to pair Them with another deity as a consort. Especially not Ast, as She is very much the faithful wife as Jameta points out- She is with Wsyr (Osiris). But it's OK to worship Her alongside another, male, deity- just don't try to match Them up as a divine Couple.

Horus' Egyptian name is Hrw, also spelled Heru.

Ast's wings are important not only in that She used them to waft the breath of life through Her dearly departed husband, but also in that She uses them to shield and protect Her son (and sometimes Her worshipers, who often magically identify with Her son or otherwise address Her as a mother in order to gain Her protection). One of Ast's forms is that of a kite (the bird of prey- not the wind-sail), which is where She gets Her wings. Other commonly winged ntjrwt (goddesses) are Nbt-Ht (Nephthys- Her twin sister), and Ma'at. I have an amulet which shows Skhmt (Sekhmet/Sachmis) with wings- this is uncommon for this goddess, but it is a reproduction of a genuine antiquity.

I really can't speak much for the accuracy of information as far as the cult of Isis is concerned; my religious studies and involvement with deities tend to focus on the Egyptian pantheon. I've sent a PM to mouseyanna already with my perceptions of Isis and Ast, so in order to keep this lengthy post somewhat shorter, I won't repeat it all here.

The symbol of the ankh, as Seraph has mentioned, is somewhat mysterious. It's amazing when you think about it- the ankh is one of the most iconographic symbols of ancient Egypt that we have, and yet we can't all agree on what it is! The most popular theory is that it depicts a sandal strap- this is because most hieroglyphic signs can be used as a shorthand method of writing whatever object they actually depict, and this is done by following the sign with a short, straight vertical dash called a "stroke determinative." When the ankh sign is followed by a stroke determinative, it reads as a sandal strap, so it seems reasonable to assume that this is what it is. As a symbol, it represents life and when shown in a deity's hand it represents that deity's power to bestow life- it's a very common symbol, as pretty much any Egyptian deity has that power. Perhaps the sandal strap can be understood as a symbol of life in the sense that we are all walking our life's path. Or perhaps it was chosen because one of the biggest, most obvious differences between a living body and a dead one is that the dead one isn't walking around anymore. wink

There are other theories for possible interpretations of this symbol's iconography, however- some say that it is the image of the sun (the loop at the top) setting over a watery horizon (the horizontal bar) and casting a long reflection in its waters (the long vertical stem). Others say that it is the image of a phallus (the long vertical stem) penetrating a v****a (the loop is the v****a, while the cross bar represents the spread inner thighs). One linguist has published that in some early depictions of the ankh, that long vertical stem is split in two and appear somewhat less stiff- he interprets this symbol as an amuletic knot, much like Ast's famous tjet knot. I find this last option fascinating, as I'm very intrigued by the Egyptian style of magic, which they called "heka." I hadn't heard of the scoll of wisdom version, but that's another very interesting interpretation and I'm not surprised to hear that it's a possibility.^_^

Esteloth, I think that what you are refering to with the ankh and the snake is the amuletic formula, dj anx Dt- the longer version written dj anx nHH Dt- which mean "given life forever/eternally" and "given life forever and always/eternally," respectively. The word Dt, which is one of two words for eternity, is written with a snake and a small loaf of bread. It represents a concept of eternity as an everlasting existence, much as what we think of when we envision a line disappearing into infinity. The other word for eternity is nHH and describes of concept of eternity which is more cyclical, like the eternal repetitions of the seasons of the year.

Ancient Egypt does have many different creation stories, and they often seem to conflict. This is a trait which is very characteristic of Egyptian religion, known as "polyvalent logic." In a nutshell, it's the concept that great truths can be approached from many different angles and each approach will give you a partial appreciation of that truth. No one of them is the whole answer, but all are helpful, and all can be true without invalidating the others. It's like sending a bunch of people out into a field to photograph it- they will take pictures of various landmarks from various different angles and at different times of day. Many of the pictures will look completely different, but they are all equally valid snapshots of different parts of the same field.

In this way, many different cults with different theological understandings coexisted more or less peacefully in ancient Egypt- it was a remarkable thing that they all got along so well, and I think provides a wonderful example for us today. Of course, things got a little rough when Ankhenaten showed up, but recovered quickly after he passed on. And that is a whole different post, so I'll stop myself right there.^_~

Egypt was very Egypt based. They viewed themselves as a bubble of order in a sea of chaos- which in many ways, they were. However, by all accounts it seems that all one had to do to become Egyptian was to live among them and take on their cultural ways. Egypt was a very progressive society in many ways- not to make it sound too idealized, but they had many races and religious views living peacefully side by side, women had more rights there than in any other culture, and it was possible- if you worked hard and were lucky- to work your way up from being a peasant to a noble. Some people did just that. Modern Kemetics view themselves as the modern body of Kemet (the ancient Egyptians knew their country as "Kemet"). The borders of Kemet now lie largely in cyberspace, along the boundaries of the various Kemetic communities which we have established here. There was actually a sociology study done on one of the larger Kemetic sects, published in Religion Online: Finding Faith on the Internet, edited by Lorne L. Dawson and Douglas E. Cowan and published by Routledge in 2004. Most Kemetic communities do tend to be very focused on our own "Kemet" and do not consider themselves a part of the larger Pagan movement. I personally do, but then again I guess that's why I'm here.^_~

Ast (Isis), Wsyr (Osiris), and Hrw (Horus) are a very popular triad and can certainly be worshiped as such. In ancient times, They would have each have had at least side chapels in each other's temples. Modern Kemetics frequently worship only one or any combination of these gods, however, and may revere Them along with other Kemetic gods as well. If you chose to worship only one of them, you might still have experiences with the Relatives dropping in from time to time, though. I wouldn't be surprised.

Christo Minaverus

As for books its always best to learn up on egyptian history and mythology a bit before delving into the religious side. Because everything was religion to the egyptians therefore the best place to start I say is in thier general history. ^^

Very, very true. Religion intertwined with all things- and though you don't have to go out and learn everything right now (and really, you never will- it's an ongoing study for all of us) it's a good idea to get some background in all parts of the culture, including dance, dress, food, daily life, history, and... well, everything. xd

And I'm going to have to leave it there for tonight, because it's getting pretty late over here. I'll take this up again as soon as I can get back to it.^_^  

[Ezinu]

wow that was a huge amount of information thanks very much for the post and the pm Banu I excited about learning more now. I can probably go find books that are actualy half decently credible with the information you just gave me but if there are any you could recomend that would be great.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Infodump a la Banu biggrin  

[Esteloth]

WebenBanu

Esteloth, I think that what you are refering to with the ankh and the snake is the amuletic formula, dj anx Dt- the longer version written dj anx nHH Dt- which mean "given life forever/eternally" and "given life forever and always/eternally," respectively. The word Dt, which is one of two words for eternity, is written with a snake and a small loaf of bread. It represents a concept of eternity as an everlasting existence, much as what we think of when we envision a line disappearing into infinity. The other word for eternity is nHH and describes of concept of eternity which is more cyclical, like the eternal repetitions of the seasons of the year.

Yes. I think so... that rings a bell. Thank you Banu.