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 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:42 pm
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I hope you had a great birthday!^_^
Rioto_Kish This might be irrelevant, but speaking about Kemetic beliefs and Ancient Egyptian in general, I'm seriously considering on buying a gold ankh necklace. I have always loved and been fascinated by Egyptian symbols (especially ankhs) and so I am thinking of purchasing one. I know this sounds crazy, but when I wear symbolic jewellery, it gives me comfort (I know that this sounds superficial-I'm not trying to be!
I don't think that's superficial at all- nearly all of my jewelry is symbolic in some way, and most of it has been offered to a particular god or goddess and therefore carries His or Her special blessing with it.^_^ To me, it is a physical meditation on my relationship with Them- the jewelry belongs to Them and is kept on Their shrine, sometimes wrapped around a statue's neck, sometimes lying at Their feet. I borrow it each morning when I put it on, and I return it to Them each night- so one of the first things I do in the morning when getting ready for the day is to visit the shrine, and I do so again at least once more before I sleep.
Gold is a good color for an ankh- for one thing, it's more traditional than silver. The Egyptians called gold "the flesh of the gods" for its radiance and eternal beauty, gold was used in the making of the temple's holiest statues as well for this reason (regular folk were not required to have golden statues, though- it was... and still is... beyond their means in most cases). It's interesting to note that in ancient Egypt, silver was actually more precious than gold- gold was readily mined in Egypt, but silver had to be imported from foreign countries and was therefore more costly. Still, gold seems to have been prized for religious purposes, which isn't surprising when you consider how silver tarnishes whereas gold does not corrupt.
For another, more practical reason, gold ankhs are commonly mistaken by Christians for crosses- and I have found that this fact allows many of us to practice our religion in peace. I used to live in Alabama, and even during my transitional phase where I wore a pentagram and an ankh together, I noticed that I got less flak from the witnessing fundies. Now that I wear the ankh alone, I sometimes even get complimented on my "Egyptian cross"- and I have the option of evaluating my audience and how much time I wish to invest in a conversation before I decide whether to share its true meaning, or simply thank the nice person for their kind compliment. wink
Rioto_Kish Oh, you have to be joking: Someone has actually been so arrogant as to say that if a GOD/ESS wants to be worshipped by them, then they will have to learn to do things their way???? ... Do they honestly think that a god/godess cares if someone doesn't worship them?
Honestly? Sometimes I wonder if these folks really even believe in the gods at all, or whether they're just playing along to look cool and therefore resent the intrusion of any expected effort on their part. But I can't say for certain, and they will vehemently deny it if you ask. But of course they would, regardless.
The problem is that this sort of attitude is perpetuated in a lot of the New Age books which are out there, simply by people's lack of awareness of the cultures and deities they're attempting to tap into- it's not so much intentional I don't think, but whenever someone takes a bit of information out of context and then passes it along to a student as Truth, it takes a really dedicated student to do the background work to notice that something's missing or out of place. And if that student then teaches it to another person, now the person teaching it really has no idea what the original context was and is a completely unwitting accomplice to perpetuating this misinformation. Each time the information is handed down, it becomes more difficult to spot- much less break- the cycle. Nowadays, this sort of ignorance- in a less obvious form, but there nonetheless- is so prevalant in New Age books that it is nearly impossible to break away from the deluge of books assuring you that they know what they're doing, and/or telling you to do "whatever feels right" rather than to commit to the sort of study which will help you to learn what is proper and why. And people love it- that sells, and so that's what authors who want to prosper will write. And when you've got that many books all around you telling you that this is right, it's really hard to see where it's not. That's why the reconstructionist movement was formed, in my opinion- placing an emphasis on academic rather than NeoPagan authors, to get around this disturbing trend which keeps feeding back into itself.
I can see how it started, and I think some of it was honestly well-intended- the early Wiccan movement quickly became a political force: fighting for freedom of religion, womens' rights, environmental issues, and a lot of other generally good stuff. But in order to do so, they had to rally supporters- and in order to rally as many people as possible they had to drop a lot of their discipline (because that made it inconvenient and people didn't want that) and much of their identity (because that required discipline). It became a religion of "anything goes," and those who joined due to that attitude quickly decided that they were now 3rd degree master High Priest/esses of their own tradition- and who could say that they weren't, since anything goes? New traditions started springing up overnight by people who'd never even met a lineaged Wiccan, much less been introduced to the mysteries which were the core of Wiccan belief and practice- which is why we now have so many "Wiccan" traditions which aren't actually Wiccan. The expectation of an "anything goes" attitude then began to seep into other areas of the Pagan Community- it's been largely warded off in the reconstructionist groups, but in order to do that they have become very reactive against anything which smells of that sort of philosophy.
The tide in the Pagan community seems to flow back and forth between the extremes of strict academics and historical accuracy on one hand, and "feel good" anything goes religion on the other- what we really need is a happy medium: an approach to religion where personal inspiration is informed by an academic quality of information- and applied with respect to tradition- while knowing where one begins and the other ends. The only way to do that is to stop reacting and just start living it, as best we can. It's hard to do, though- even I get into a rant sometimes, and come off sounding haughty and dismissive when I don't mean to belittle anyone. sad
However, the fact remains that Wicca and NeoWicca make up a very large and influential part of the community- it is the first encounter which most people have with the Pagan religions, and so it forms the basis of their expectations where ever they go from there. I guess that's part of the reason why I find the development of their theology and practice to be so fascinating... and frustrating at the same time.
Heh, and reading back through that now it sounds like I really got up on a soapbox. wink But I don't mean to rant, these are just the facts as I see them- plain and simple.
Rioto_Kish A deity isn't going to kowtow to some pagan/Wiccan/witch (I'm saying all three in case someone gets offended by being called 'pagan') no matter what the person does. I'm not saying that we should grovel at their feet like a servant: rather we should work WITH them, but always ensuring that we follow their practices and rituals (the practices were around WAY longer than I was, so I would just being arrogant and rude if I thought I could make them change just for my sake) and remembering that all deities/spirits are more powerful than us. Sorry, what I'm trying to say is respect them at all times, but don't be a slave.
Yeah, I think you'd do well with Wepwawet.^_^ The Egyptian gods, in my experience, aren't big on the groveling, self-debasing attitudes. We are Their creations, after all- a part of Their world and it is a wonderful one. People are full of potential, and the part we have to play in holding this great place together is as important as anyone else's- no more and no less. My gods prefer for Their children to be strong and independent, but ethical- and not above asking for help when you need it. They want to be involved, after all- They need to fulfill Their role, too.
Rioto_Kish On the other hand, I will NEVER assume that I can control the will of the gods/spirits and make them do my will. I don't even want to think about what the consequences of thinking this would be....
Good idea.^_^
Rioto_Kish I am going to do some serious research about various deities/spirits. I just got quite a lot of money in bursaries from Awards Night, birthday money (I'm seventeen today) and from working 8:30-5 yesterday, so I'm saving most of it, but I also have a book voucher, so I might use some of my money and my voucher to buy some good books and a deck of Tarot cards (I'm really interested in divination, mainly Tarot and runes) plus an ankh. Having a deck would enable me to learn how to do readings.
I love Tarot decks, and am fascinated by divinatory systems of many kinds. I own several, though I rarely ever use them. Weird, huh? But although I am fascinated by divination systems, I just have don't seem to be drawn to actually using the ones I've found so far. ^_^' Kind of like how I was always fascinated by Western magical theory, but never really settled on a personal magical practice until I started studying the Egyptian one- heka. Perhaps after I've learned more about Egyptian divinatory systems I'll settle on one for personal use.^_^ For now, though, I appreciate Tarot for the artwork. If Tarot really clicks with you, you might consider using the cards as signifiers in spells, or as paper talismans.^_^
I also have several mock-Tarot decks (decks which are not Tarot, but spin-offs which work on a similar theme), runes (and mock-runic sets), a scrying mirror, a leopard agate scrying ball, and some pendulumns. I tried water scrying but I think my favorite was fire scrying, and for a while I made a special flamable liquid to serve as a fuel for sacred fires... but I ended up spending more time just laughing and communing with the dances of the fire-spirit than fortune telling. There wasn't much of anything that I wanted to know. redface
Rioto_Kish Oh, I was wondering, can you use the Tarot to see whether (can I say 'calling a certain god?' or is calling not the right word to use? I'm not sure) a certain god/ess/spirit for a ritual/spell (waaay down the track, don't worry) is a good idea, before you actually perform the ritual? Or do you need to call on any deities/spirits in order to read the Tarot?
Interesting question- sure, I suppose that any divination system could be used that way. Your skills with the system in question, of course, will determine the reliability of the results- and I like to bear in mind that most divination systems are subject to errors in interpretation, and it's always possible for either you or the deck to have a "bad day." As Starlock says, the decks are more than "just a tool." They each do have a spirit, and if you want to study the Tarot you will need to get in tune with the spirit of your deck. Wish I could tell you more about how to do that, heh, but I never really "got with the program" in Tarot myself. Treating the deck with respect is a good start, however- and as a devout Kemetic I might also suggest pouring and offering a small glass of water, and/or burning an offering of incense for that spirit before a reading when possible. The incense could be chosen to align with the theme of your questions for the night, or it could be a blend to supplement psychic talents, or when you get a feel for what your deck likes you might chose something just for it. The water is a little trickier- I would say drink it before the reading, because when spirits consume a part of an offering they leave a little bit of themselves behind. When you drink the water, you will internalize that essence- which might be helpful in activating that spiritual link for a good reading. On the other hand, some people might say that the act of physically consuming something would ground you into the physical, and so it would be better to drink it at the end.
Arcane (my room-mate, and an infrequent poster in this guild- but he sometimes comments through me) says that he likes the idea of the incense, but that he would shy away from offering water or any kind of food or drink to the deck. Instead, he says that you could offer that food or water to a deity- and that in fact you could offer the deck itself to an appropriate deity- but that the act of using the deck is in itself an offering to the spirit of the cards. Without the person reading them, the cards are just pretty artwork- but when you use the cards you both become something more than you were on your own. It's a partnership. To strengthen your bond and honor that partnership, he recommends keeping the deck near your person when possible or storing it in a place of honor, and treating it specially- the example he gave was to keep it in a silk wrap, and/or a special box. For anything more than that, I refer you to him via private messages- because I am nowhere near as informed or eloquent on the subject as he is. sweatdrop Bear in mind that he doesn't get onto Gaia very frequently, however.^_^
Rioto_Kish I'm going to save up, and next year (I'm starting uni next year, so hopefully I'll be able to work more) I'll be able to get my hands on more books about the different religions/cultures/gods/esses and I'll be able to study more.
That's fabulous, and I also prefer to own my books- they're handy to have around when someone asks me to cite my references. However, bear in mind that you can start before then- your library can get books for you, and if you start your reading before you start buying then you'll know more about which books to buy and which to avoid. You might just avoid some of the embarrasing purchases I have on my shelves... redface
Rioto_Kish I wish my local library was more useful...they have maybe 25 books in the entire building under 'Philosophy' and only 5 are of any relevance. Most of them are the kind of books written purely for people looking for a 'quick-fix spell' for their love lives.
The program which Starlock mentioned to you for getting books from other libraries is called Inter Library Loan (ILL for short). Ask the librarians at your public library about it- they'll be thrilled to find someone who is interested in books and learning, and will be happy to show you how it works. Then you can get books from all over the place. Stick to academic qualities of books and you can pass it off as an interest in archeology- there are several people in my life who think that I just have an obsessive, but purely scholarly, interest in ancient Egypt.
Libraries also sometimes have sales to move old books off their shelves- if yours does this, then you might want to keep an eye on it. I bought a book today from my library for $12 which would have cost me around $50-$60 if I had bought it from the museum where I first saw it. XD
Rioto_Kish Considering I don't believe in love spells (I don't mess with what is not mine to touch) these are not helpful to me. I've gone through them to see if any had any information, but they don't talk about the religious side of it, just the spell aspect. It's very sad.
That's a comendable attitude, on both counts- and unfortunately you are correct that the religion- and worse, the ethics- part is left out or given only the briefest of treatments in many modern practice books. That's partially because in the Western world many people still differentiate between religion and magic- in my opinion, that's a fallacy. Magic is, among other things, the science of applied religion: it's what you do when you take what your religion teaches you about the Unseen world, and apply it to your daily life. But if you get a few leads on the sorts of religions you're interested in then post them here- one of us might be able to point you in the right direction. For Egyptian religion, I suggest Henri Frankfort's Ancient Egyptian Religion: An Interpretation and Erik Hornung's Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many as good places to start.
Rioto_Kish I borrowed three books from the section (I don't have them with me, so if the titles are somewhat incorrect, I apologise): 'To Ride a Silver Broomstick' by Silver RavenWolf 'Every Woman a Witch' by Cassandra (something, sorry!) and a yoga book. Not paganism, I know, but some of the breathing exercises helped me to focus really well, so I thought that if it didn't clash with what I'm trying to do, I could mix the yoga aspects with meditation to help me focus.
I have the RavenWolf book too, but I really wasn't impressed with it- I never bought another one of her books. Her history is screwed up- like many New Age books- and her approach to magic seems to run along the lines of "Hey let's throw energy around and never mind where it goes or what it does there! Pretty!!!" I've heard that in person she's a really nice lady, but still- she's the poster child for commerciallized Wicca. No harm in borrowing the book, though- I'm just glad that you didn't end up spending your money on it.
Rioto_Kish I've read some comments criticising(sp?) RavenWolf, so I just went through the book, taking everything with a grain of salt.
That's a good practice for books in general.^_^
Rioto_Kish I read RavenWolf's book (not entirely, but the parts relevant to me) and she did seem to focus a bit on the physical aspects of witchcraft. For example, what people usually have in their collection of spell items (there were several rare sounding items, and I was just thinking-'but wouldn't people's items vary depending on their beliefs/practices?'
Yeah, but she's probably just trying to give you a good "starting off" point- what does a well balanced magical cabinet look like? A few good herbs, oils, stones, etc. to get you started on a variety of spells- and then when you find something you'd like to add you can pick it up.
Rioto_Kish However, several things did coincide with what I've read elsewhere, so it wasn't too bad. I haven't read much of the other one, but it's okay, from what I've seen of it.
I haven't read Every Woman a Witch, so let us know what you think when you finish it!^_^ Beware of books, however, which try to convince you that women are any more suited than men to be spiritual or use magic- it's another backlash from that political movement I was telling you about earlier. sweatdrop We certainly have our share of feminazi activists in the Pagan community, who signed up with us just to fight The Patriarchy... and it sometimes results in embarrassing bouts of man-bashing which is extremely unbalanced and unhealthy.
As for yoga, my favorite is bakhti yoga: enlightenment through love and complete devotion to a deity. ^_^
Rioto_Kish I might start with some Egyptian, because of Wepwawet: if I ever become confident enough in myself and my knowledge to perform a dedication ritual, would Wepwawet be a good choice to invite to oversee the ritual, because in a way I am beginning a new path in my life and opening a new aspect.
That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You could do the Daily Rite and during that open space at the end, pray to Him to open the way for you and be your guide on the path. Here is a page which is under construction by various folks who work with Him, which might be helpful to you as you get to know Him select offerings and such. Offerings are mentioned on the page- and those are specific to Wepwawet, however every god likes water, bread, and frankincense. Offerings don't need to be costly- and they don't even need to be material. You can offer actions as well- dedicate an activity; the time you're putting in to learning about Him is an offering as well.
Rioto_Kish then again, I think the Ancient Egyptians believed that their gods were transcendent...I'll have to look that up and refresh my memory)
Some were- Amn ("The Hidden God") comes to mind as a pretty transcendent god, but even He is present in the wind- which is made clear by its movements yet remains invisible. The gods are mysterious, and there will always be more to Them than meets the eye at any given time. However, They are not apart from this world- They are a part of it, and are present here in the forms of natural phenomena, the workings of social concepts, and sacred animals. Once I learned to look properly, I began to see gods everywhere.
Rioto_Kish Anyway, I can start learning about Wepwawet, and branch out with more deities when I gain confidence before I decide which deity/spirit to ask to watch over my ritual. (If I ever perform it! )
Sounds like a plan to me. 3nodding
Rioto_Kish Thank you for the links! I love discussing beliefs with other like-minded people (okay, not all think like me, but believe in similar things, kind of...!) so I'll definitely check this site out and read as much as I can.
It's been a pleasure, really.^_^ Congratulations on your birthday- may Wepwawet open the way for many joyful, rewarding, and exciting new blessings in the year to come, and many more!
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:54 pm
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:52 am
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blaugh Thank you! Sweet seventeen and two days now!
You will not believe how hard it is to find a gold ankh in jewellery stores! I went looking yesterday after my acting class, and one store had one, another store said I could order one in, but the one I liked was going to set me back $109, and several other stores only stocked ones in silver. Argh! I suppose I could get silver, but I would like to get one in gold because, like you said, it's more traditional. I remember learning in my Ancient History class that gold was very common, and therefore, elements like steel which we take for granted were considered very valuable. Like the steel dagger over Tutankhamen's (I can never spell his name correctly, sorry!) heart. Well, where his heart used to be. I prefer gold anyway, because it doesn't tarnish, and I felt that if I'm going to purchase an ankh to symbolise my beliefs, I should follow the traditions of the Egyptians and get it in the element that they forged them from.
I'm not going to give up though! I will keep looking. Borrowing the necklace from them every day is a good idea (however, that means me actually having an altar...I might have to wait until I leave home to do that.)
I also thought of a way to escape the whole 'why are you wearing an ankh?' question. Everyone knows I love Ancient Egypt, so I can just say 'I'm into Ancient Egyptian stuff,' and I'm off the religious hook, so to speak. I don't even have to be articulate: 'stuff' covers everything from religion to culture!
I'm with you on that one about people expecting to have deities bend to their will. I can understand how misinformation can lead to this, however. It's a good thing that reconstructionalists are around and other dedicated religions too, otherwise I don't think much of the actual religion would survive for long.
Um, am I one of those 'anything goes' denominations? If I am, please tell me! I don't like doing a slapdash work of anything, least of all my religion. gonk
blaugh Don't worry, you're not ranting! What you're doing is making people aware of a disturbing trend amongst people in the pagan belief systems. I do the same thing about religions too with my friends, and also about racism (I know someone who is quite racist, and he knows I have many mulitcultural friends, so he says offensive things around me because he knows he'll upset me, and then I go off at him: not screaming and yelling, but in a controlled, calm way)
Hehe, I leave my soapbox out all the time: I use it a lot! sweatdrop But in this case, you saying this helps me to learn, and anyone else who reads this.
Do you really think I'd do well with Wepwawet? blaugh That's good to know! I don't have anything against people who want to grovel at deities' feet, but I don't feel that pagan religions are the best religion for these people, as many of the deities that I have heard people communicate with seem to prefer people being sort of on par with them. Okay not on par, but closer than other religions. I really hope I'm not offending anyone-these are just my opinions! gonk Sorry! I don't think all deities would be like this...
May I ask what heka is? I don't think it's weird to own divination systems and rarely use them. I'm interested in scrying, but if I obtained any scrying objects, I'd probably use them occasionally. (I'd like to learn how to use a crystal ball, but everytime I see them I think carnival gypsies, which is not something I want running through my head when I'm trying to scry...)
I love some of the Tarot artwork! I really like the decks with beautiful drawings (not useful for divining, but hey!)
Talking to the fire-spirit sounded like fun! I don't think it (does the spirit have a gender? I don't want to call the spirit 'it' if it turns out to be male...I could end up offending gonk ) would mind too much if you just had a relaxed conversation, would it? If it was me, I'd probably end up getting burnt for being accidentally impertinent... emo I have a habit of putting my foot in it more often than not.
I've heard about wrapping the Tarot deck in silk before: my friend who's Wiccan does that with hers (black silk) but she says that this keeps the energy of the cards absorbed in the cards. I don't think that she believes in the spirit of the cards. She can be quite headstrong and set in her ways at times (that can be a good thing though! blaugh ) Actually, talking about my friend reminds me. She owns one of RavenWolf's books, but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called: it's really thick (about 500 pages, I think) and I'm pretty sure it has a brown cover. Have you read this one? I was wondering if you thought this one was more relevant than 'Silver Broomstick?' I'm not going to buy it in any case (way too expensive) but if I can borrow it, I might.
Sorry, back to Tarot: I should look up certain offerings before I start doing readings. I'll learn what the cards mean (so I don't need the book too much when I start) but I'll read up on offerings, and which ones would be appropriate for what spirit/deity my question is relevant to. Once again, I don't want to stuff this up and annoy any deities! I'm not living in perpetual fear of them, but I don't want to get all gung-ho about this, end up doing it wrong, and then not knowing what I did wrong so I can fix it. One step at a time... mrgreen
Thank you for Arcane's profile! biggrin When I find a deck, I'll ask him any questions I find. I have to say, though, you are being very eloquent and informative about the Tarot! I'm not even this eloquent about English, my first language!
I'm going to hit the library in a big way from now on!- I was in another thread (I think it was ED) and I mentioned that Australian laws forbade paganism, resulting in one year's jail time/hard labour, when people started giving me links, saying that I was wrong. I read them, and I learnt that the laws have changed! It's now illegal to discriminate against all religions! YES! I'm not going to be thrown in jail for my beliefs! blaugh blaugh blaugh *Clears throat* Sorry, I was a little excited about that!
I'm almost finished school, so I'll start going to the library in the holidays and reading up on various things. Are there any authors/books that you recommend I start with? I still have difficulty differentiating between fact and 'reading fodder.' (what I call something that's written purely for book sales.) I'll see if I can get into the city so I can go through some of the bigger bookstores (etc Borders!) I've always wished to have my own mini-library, because then I can read at my own leisure, and I know that they'll be kept in good condition and that I don't have to return them after two weeks-I can take my time to read everything properly. Unlike those books I borrowed last-I had to return them today. sweatdrop
I'll ask about ILL. The archeology thing will work for Egyptian, Hellenic and Celtic, but what about other beliefs, like Native American shamanism or Astaru? (I can never spell this right) Would saying that I'm studying religion at uni work? I'll also enquire about buying older library books. Books are way overpriced in my opinion. Knowledge should be accessible to everyone, not just for the people who can afford it.
Those books sound interesting-I'll see if I can find them. (I can ask the library! hehe! 4laugh ) This might sound kind of weird, but even though I'm not Kemetic, I thought that a copy of 'The Book of the Dead' might help me better understand Egyptian culture, therefore reducing my risk of stuffing up with Egyptian gods (ie: Wepwawet) and I know that it isn't required to speak the deities' ancient language during rituals, but I found a book ages ago on how to read and pronounce Egyptian hieroglyphics. If I communicated with any Egyptian deities, would making an effort to speak the ancient language help me in any way? Provided I say it correctly!
'Silver Broomstick' didn't really do much for me. I agree: she didn't really explain the consequences of your actions, which kind of frightened me-the thought of people splashing energy around haphazardly...*shudders in fear* It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
I had to give the books back today, so I didn't finish it, but if I can get my hands on it again, I'll tell you what describes. 3nodding May I ask why some believe that women are more suited to paganism than men? Is it because of the whole Church/other male-dominated religions thing? If it is, then wouldn't this be as bad, because they are oppressing men? Sorry, I'll stop getting political...
Bakhti yoga...sounds familiar. I think the book mentioned Bakhti yoga. Then again, the book I borrowed was for weight loss, so not the greatest book I could have borrowed...! redface
I'm glad you think Wepwawet sounds like a good choice for my dedication rite. (Now, all I've got to do is be confident enough in my knowledge to actually PERFORM it...) That link was very good! I'm going to keep that one in mind (it's good to have an entire site dedicated to one god-it helps with clarity) Uh, just with offerings-if you offer actual food, what do you do with it after the ritual? Leaving out to rot is probably not what I should do, so is there something/somewhere I can do/place it for the deity/ies? (Sorry about the split sentence!)
So Egyptian gods were kind of transcendent/immanent at the same time? That's a nice thought (sounds strange, I know, but knowing that they're always here is comforting to me, in some way... 4laugh )
Okay-research. Lots of it. Got it! 3nodding I might not be able to do much for the next three weeks: I've got five days of classes left, a week of exams, graduation ceremony, formal (prom) night and then I'm out of year 12!!!! Then I'll have more time to learn, though I'll do what I can now. As long as I pass year 12!
I'm so thankful to you, Starlock and Gypsy for teaching/helping me understand more about my own beliefs and the beliefs of others! I hope that one day I'll be able to use what I've learnt from you all to help someone else (I tutor, and there's nothing better than seeing her do well because of it! It's the best reward!)
Thank you again! blaugh
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:52 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:29 am
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Sorry for not replying earlier... most of the Kermetic stuff I can't answer, but I'll address what I can!
Rioto_Kish Talking to the fire-spirit sounded like fun! I don't think it (does the spirit have a gender? I don't want to call the spirit 'it' if it turns out to be male...I could end up offending gonk ) would mind too much if you just had a relaxed conversation, would it? If it was me, I'd probably end up getting burnt for being accidentally impertinent... emo I have a habit of putting my foot in it more often than not.
From a personal standpoint, I find the divine and all spirits to be fundamentally above and beyond the concept of gender. Gender is a social construct created by human societies that assigns what traits and tasks are 'appropriate' for each sex (sex being genetically male or female). As I believe all traits and tasks to be universally human, it wouldn't make sense for me personally to extend what I consider an archaic concept onto the divine except where attributing sex actually makes sense. Giving elemental entities a sex just... makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. stare
As for speaking with such entities... I've had a run-in with a fire spirit of sorts and I didn't have much trouble with it. Part of that is because I identify under a fire sign... I imagine that someone with less affinity for fire might get their hair singed. whee
Rioto_Kish I've heard about wrapping the Tarot deck in silk before: my friend who's Wiccan does that with hers (black silk) but she says that this keeps the energy of the cards absorbed in the cards. I don't think that she believes in the spirit of the cards. She can be quite headstrong and set in her ways at times (that can be a good thing though! blaugh ) Actually, talking about my friend reminds me. She owns one of RavenWolf's books, but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called: it's really thick (about 500 pages, I think) and I'm pretty sure it has a brown cover. Have you read this one? I was wondering if you thought this one was more relevant than 'Silver Broomstick?' I'm not going to buy it in any case (way too expensive) but if I can borrow it, I might.
Many do wrap their decks in protective cloth to keep negative energies away from them. I don't do that because I trust the cards. Sometimes I think being paranoid about negative energy brings it to you more than if you just dismissed it entirely! Mostly I just don't let anyone else handle my deck... that's enough security for me.
The book that she owns is probably Ravenwolf's spellbook for the solitary. I haven't given it much of a look-through, but it is basically a huge grimoire of spells. Personally, I think that these tomes can be useful for inspiration but writing your own stuff generally works better.
Rioto_Kish I'm almost finished school, so I'll start going to the library in the holidays and reading up on various things. Are there any authors/books that you recommend I start with?
Starlock's Book List Starter books? My growing must-read list goes something like this: Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religion by Joyce and River Higginbotham An absolute must-read book for general Neopagan practice. This book does what few others I have read even attempt: philosophy and theology. If you want a book with some actual meat in it; probing questions that will get you thinking about how you see the divine, magic, and the universe, this is a book you'll buy and return to again and again. Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham While I personally don't care for this book that much, it is just plain a classic starting poin in the literature. This was among the first manuals for solitary practice published. For that reason, it's on the must-read list. Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland This is on here for a similar reason as the above work. While I don't personally like it, this one is even more classic than Cunningham's work. For those of you who don't know, Ray Buckland is the guy who braught Wicca to America. Honor his contribution by giving this book a breeze through! Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler While some bits of this work are a bit dated, it's still an absolute must-read. This was among the first studies done on the Neopagan movement. I recommend this for more upper-level readers as it is largely academic in its approach. Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft (3rd Ed)Wow... a third edition has come out! I'll have to go read it! When I read through dozens of 101 books, this one struck me as one of the best. Presents things in an easy format and lacks most of the misinformation that some other 101 books have. Inner Temple Witchcraft by Christopher Penczak I was skeptical of this series at first until I bothered to sit down and read through an entire book of his. It's one of the densest, well put together works I've read in spite of areas where I personally disagree with his take on things. What I suggest is to take his first two books as guideposts and read further on each of the subjects he discusses in the chapters. The Spiral Dance by Starhawk Yet another early-movement author that is just a classic must-read. Some of her later stuff is quite fantastic, so don't stop here if you like her style. Triumph of the Moon by Ronald Hutton If you care even *remotely* about knowing the REAL history of the Craft as opposed to the typical innacurate or revisionistic crap you'll see in most 101 books (such as in Ravenwolf's works or even Buckland's early works and some recent works!) read this. It is *not* a light read. Heavily academic, properly-researched, but as of yet the best history out there. The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell Read as much of his stuff as you have the time and patience for. I haven't given his works the full treatment I would like, but this guy is seriously knowledgable in mythology.
There are a few others I might add for the more academically inclined. "Voices from the Pagan Census" by Helen H. Berger. Very interesting read to get a feel for the demographics of the Neopagan movement. You'll probably have to ILL to get that. Another great work is "Magic, Witchcraft and the Otherworld" by Susan Greenwood which you will also likely have to ILL. These two works are academic and can put things into a good perspective. Usually when you ILL, the librarian won't ask what you need the book for. I never got asked that question!
Rioto_Kish I had to give the books back today, so I didn't finish it, but if I can get my hands on it again, I'll tell you what describes. 3nodding May I ask why some believe that women are more suited to paganism than men? Is it because of the whole Church/other male-dominated religions thing? If it is, then wouldn't this be as bad, because they are oppressing men? Sorry, I'll stop getting political...
If you take a look at the "Voices from the Pagan Census" book I pointed you to, the movement has a skewed ratio in favor of women to men. It is speculated that the reason for this is because Neopagan religions, unlike the Abramaic ones, recognize a female divine. Women are attracted to a religion that no longer tells them that they're "less-thans" or where there is no recognized female divinity. There has been some criticism within the movement with regards to male-opression in the Craft and some have been working to counter this over-emphasis on the female.
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:04 am
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ARGH! gonk gonk gonk I HATE it when that happens! (I just answered your post, Starlock. It took me about half an hour to type, and then I moved the mouse, and because the shift key was stuck, it deleted EVERYTHING!)
Sorry, that was useless information and a half. Anyway, I'll start again:
I am glad that you are still willing to help, Starlock- I really do appreciate it! blaugh
Quote: From a personal standpoint, I find the divine and all spirits to be fundamentally above and beyond the concept of gender.
So, do you think I'm safe in using the pronoun 'it' in reference to the fire spirit? I'm pretty sure that I'm one of those people who will get their hair singed... emo I don't know what my element is. May I ask, how you learn what your element is, and how it weaves in with your beliefs? I'd like to know my element, but I'm not sure how I find out, and I don't know what the elements are related to in regards to magic and religion.
I'd like to write my own spells and rituals, but I'm not sure what is included in them. I believe that it should involve: protection, casting a circle, invoking(sp?) any deities/spirits (optional) the actual spell, farewell and gratitude to said deities/spirits, closing of circle. (I probably got that all wrong, sorry)
eek ... blaugh Wow, thank you so much for that reading list Starlock! I'll have to look them up in the holidays. 'Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religion' and 'The Power of Myth' sound really good-I'll look them up first, and go from there. The 'Paganism' one discusses philosophy and theology, not just magic, so that sounds like a very informative book. In my opinion, spells are all well and good, but I wish to learn about the religion side of things, not just the magic. Learning about the deities and their cultures is very important in my view too, as I'll (hopefully) be working with deities (someday) and I feel that I need to understand the 'backgrounds' of the deities that I will be working with.
I'm going to become very familiar with the ILL system at my local library... blaugh I'm glad they don't ask why you need the books! I'll just make sure that my friends who work at the library aren't the staff who serve me!
I'm not really in favour of religions that consider women 'less-than' men. (Just my opinion-no offense meant to anyone!) Then again, I'm not in favour of women being to superior to men either. I believe that we are all equal, and as long as we recognise that, we shouldn't have a problem with our beliefs. (Maybe that's just me being naive.... sweatdrop )
Thank you again so much, Starlock! 4laugh
(Oh, random news for today-I finally bought a gold ank necklace! blaugh I'm very happy with it! Hehe...sorry, I'm very happy with it! I had to look through a million stores to find it, but I finally found it)
Oh, by the way, Starlock- um, this sounds crazy, but do you live in Australia? I read the way you spelt 'Centered' and I realised that that is how it is spelt in Australia. Sorry, this is a bit odd, this question... 4laugh Just thought I'd ask.
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:05 am
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:16 am
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Rioto_Kish Quote: From a personal standpoint, I find the divine and all spirits to be fundamentally above and beyond the concept of gender. So, do you think I'm safe in using the pronoun 'it' in reference to the fire spirit? I'm pretty sure that I'm one of those people who will get their hair singed... emo I don't know what my element is. May I ask, how you learn what your element is, and how it weaves in with your beliefs? I'd like to know my element, but I'm not sure how I find out, and I don't know what the elements are related to in regards to magic and religion.
In the English language "it' is often regarded as impersonal, informal, if not mildly disrespectful. Unfortunately our language lacks any good non-sexed pronouns that get the job done. Sometimes I use "thy" and "thee" and "thou" as it is more honorific... I avoid using "it" at any rate. If you're careful how you word rituals you can slink around using pronouns altogether. Of course, you can use sexed pronouns if you want... I find myself using them sometimes.
As for what your element is, traditionally that comes out of astrology. I don't put a lot of stock in astrology right now, but it happened to be right in terms of my dominant element. Basically it goes like this: FIRE (Sagittarius, Aries, Leo), EARTH (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn), AIR (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius), WATER (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces). You can use this to figure your element or learn about them and figure out what attributes from the elements fit you best.
Generally the Elements complement a lot of the themes you'll learn about very well and if you understand them intimately they can be great for magical work. There's a lot of crap on the Four out there, though. While I hestitate to say anything is flat out wrong, the standard attribution of the elements you'll find in Wiccan literature is, at least per what the Greeks (who started the system) intended, incorrect. Most works put the order of the elements as Air-Fire-Water-Earth (makes me shudder just typing it) which violates the Greek elemental rotation which states the order MUST be Air-Fire-Earth-Water for reasons that are a bit complicated. I hope to see a shift in the literature in the future back to the original Greek model... all around the metaphors make about ten times more sense if you use that model.
Rioto_Kish I'd like to write my own spells and rituals, but I'm not sure what is included in them. I believe that it should involve: protection, casting a circle, invoking(sp?) any deities/spirits (optional) the actual spell, farewell and gratitude to said deities/spirits, closing of circle. (I probably got that all wrong, sorry)
When I first started off, I worried quite a bit about doing things the right way too. It ended up just being too much to handle at once so instead I adopted the elements that came easily to me first and then have let other things filter their way in over time. Not sure if that method would work for you. The most essential elements to doing any kind of magic or ritual are basically these, though: focus, intent, will. If you don't have those, chances are you'll get a fizzled spell or a bad ritual. Many of the ceremonial aspects seem to me to function towards one of these three ends. For example, while it is often said that we cast circles to consecrate the space and keep it protected, psychologically this helps us get into a magical mindset in terms of focus, intent, and will.
Oh, and sorry, but I don't live in Australia. I have some co-workers from there though. whee |
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:03 am
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Starlock Rioto_Kish Quote: From a personal standpoint, I find the divine and all spirits to be fundamentally above and beyond the concept of gender. So, do you think I'm safe in using the pronoun 'it' in reference to the fire spirit? I'm pretty sure that I'm one of those people who will get their hair singed... emo I don't know what my element is. May I ask, how you learn what your element is, and how it weaves in with your beliefs? I'd like to know my element, but I'm not sure how I find out, and I don't know what the elements are related to in regards to magic and religion. In the English language "it' is often regarded as impersonal, informal, if not mildly disrespectful. Unfortunately our language lacks any good non-sexed pronouns that get the job done. Sometimes I use "thy" and "thee" and "thou" as it is more honorific... I avoid using "it" at any rate. If you're careful how you word rituals you can slink around using pronouns altogether. Of course, you can use sexed pronouns if you want... I find myself using them sometimes. As for what your element is, traditionally that comes out of astrology. I don't put a lot of stock in astrology right now, but it happened to be right in terms of my dominant element. Basically it goes like this: FIRE (Sagittarius, Aries, Leo), EARTH (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn), AIR (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius), WATER (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces). You can use this to figure your element or learn about them and figure out what attributes from the elements fit you best. Generally the Elements complement a lot of the themes you'll learn about very well and if you understand them intimately they can be great for magical work. There's a lot of crap on the Four out there, though. While I hestitate to say anything is flat out wrong, the standard attribution of the elements you'll find in Wiccan literature is, at least per what the Greeks (who started the system) intended, incorrect. Most works put the order of the elements as Air-Fire-Water-Earth (makes me shudder just typing it) which violates the Greek elemental rotation which states the order MUST be Air-Fire-Earth-Water for reasons that are a bit complicated. I hope to see a shift in the literature in the future back to the original Greek model... all around the metaphors make about ten times more sense if you use that model. Rioto_Kish I'd like to write my own spells and rituals, but I'm not sure what is included in them. I believe that it should involve: protection, casting a circle, invoking(sp?) any deities/spirits (optional) the actual spell, farewell and gratitude to said deities/spirits, closing of circle. (I probably got that all wrong, sorry) When I first started off, I worried quite a bit about doing things the right way too. It ended up just being too much to handle at once so instead I adopted the elements that came easily to me first and then have let other things filter their way in over time. Not sure if that method would work for you. The most essential elements to doing any kind of magic or ritual are basically these, though: focus, intent, will. If you don't have those, chances are you'll get a fizzled spell or a bad ritual. Many of the ceremonial aspects seem to me to function towards one of these three ends. For example, while it is often said that we cast circles to consecrate the space and keep it protected, psychologically this helps us get into a magical mindset in terms of focus, intent, and will. Oh, and sorry, but I don't live in Australia. I have some co-workers from there though. whee
sweatdrop Whoops, I'm SO glad I haven't talked to any spirits yet... okay, so the pronoun 'it' is out. I'll make sure that when I'm communicating, I'll avoid using 'it,' or any other impolite pronoun (in case I'm missing one.) Maybe...I've read somewhere that they divide the element into male/female genders. I think fire falls under 'male,' water is 'female' etc. (I think) Can I find out which gender goes with what element, and use the appropriate pronouns (NOT when communicating with the actual spirit! Just when I'm talking to other people about the spirits.) Would that be okay? (I REALLY don't want spirits angry with me! eek )
Your element is kind of based on your starsign? That means that I've known what my element is for years without realising! I'm a Scorpian, so my element is water. (I'll look up the elemental attributes anyway, just to make sure)
Sorry, but what did you mean by 'themes?' I haven't been able to study much lately (exam week-Argh! gonk ) but I recall seeing the elements in a version of casting a circle. The person who wrote the spell invited the five elements to the circle, and then gave gratitude at the completion of the spell. (I'm not sure that this is what you're talking about...) Did you mean that each element may be better for certain aspects of magical work? I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you said. emo
I'll try to remember the Greek model of Air-Fire-Earth-Water for future reference. 3nodding I'll remember it in descending order. (I've just figured out how to remember it using some strange method in my crazy brain!)
Yeah, I wasn't sure if that method would work for me either, but I haven't really seen spells written in any other way, which is a shame. When I wrote down those elements of the spell in order, I kind of had a mini-panic. If I tried to do all of that straight away, I'd probably faint from the effort and concentration. I do think that I'd cast a circle at the very least to get me concentrating, but overall, I don't want to perform highly elaborate rituals all the time, because I'd end up burning myself out. I mean, I don't have anything against more complex rituals, but I don't want to get into the mindset that 'if it's not fancy and complicated, then it won't work.' I'll have to read up on more spells and rituals and see how other people do them. May I ask what you meant by 'adopting elements that came easily to you?' Sorry, I don't think my brain is keeping up with me anymore...
Quote: Oh, and sorry, but I don't live in Australia. I have some co-workers from there though.
4laugh It's okay! I was just wondering. I don't see many people who live outside Australia who spell words like I do.
Sorry, Starlock: I feel like I'm back at square one with all of this. I am seriously going to study in the holidays and make sure that the knowledge actually stays in my head this time... |
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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:56 pm
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Okay, I may be making something out of nothing, but I had a REALLY strange experience last night...
I was trying to finish my school assignment, which was due this morning, and I needed to reprint about 4 pages of analysis that I had typed and saved onto my USB stick so I could staple it to my assignment. And I couldn't find the USB stick ANYWHERE.
I was starting to panic, as it was already late at night, I was tired, stressed, and I really needed that information. My sister and I practically tore my room apart searching for it, and we checked the whole house, and we still hadn't found it. I was on the verge of tears, when, out of desparation (I didn't expect them to answer me- I just didn't know what else to do) I asked the gods to help me find it. I didn't ask any deity in particular (considering I don't know much about any particular deity,) but I held my ankh in my hands and just prayed (is that the right word?) for them to show me where my USB was.
I kept looking for another minute or so, and I just gave up. I sat in front of the computer again, picked up my assignment, and there was my USB stick. I couldn't believe it! I wasn't sure if it was the gods helping me, or just luck, but I thanked the gods for their help. A few seconds or so later, the lights flickered momentarily, (which freaked me out a bit) and then a huge thumping noise (like when large plastic containers fall down on top of each other onto the floor) came from the next room. I went into the room to see if anything had fallen off the table, and nothing had fallen or even moved. eek
Okay, now this might not have had anything to do with the gods, and maybe it's just me imagining things (the thumping sound and the lights were real though-my whole family noticed them) but could this have been the gods helping me?
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:29 am
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:23 am
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Rioto_Kish Sorry, but what did you mean by 'themes?'
Oh... sorry, that was a bit vague. Elemental theory is one of my specialty areas, so I have to hold back the water or risk drowning someone in it... sweatdrop I figured if you had any more questions, you'd ask anyway. Put another way, the themes I'm talking about could be said to be the Mysteries. Things such as the cyclical nature of time and existence, the nature of change and transformation, interconnectivity, and whatnot. I find them especially useful for seasonal changes... it's amazing how much the attributions of Water-Air-Fire-Earth paralell Winter-Spring-Summer-Fall.
Rioto_Kish I haven't been able to study much lately (exam week-Argh! gonk ) but I recall seeing the elements in a version of casting a circle. The person who wrote the spell invited the five elements to the circle, and then gave gratitude at the completion of the spell. (I'm not sure that this is what you're talking about...) Did you mean that each element may be better for certain aspects of magical work? I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you said. emo
Seems like you're talking about calling the quarters here. It does strike me as a bit odd that the fifth would be called... I haven't seen Aether usually called... most often when casting a circle, the Four are called and the Fifth is just intrinsically present. Traditionally you call the quarters (the four Elements) and when done with the ritual, release them and give thanks (gratitude) for their attendance and guardianship.
I wasn't specifically talking about which element might be better for certain magical works... I'm not sure exactly what you're responding to of what I wrote without a direct quotation OF what I wrote. sweatdrop At any rate, this idea is generally held as true; as Fire, for example, is an active element, you wouldn't want to use it to help you sleep (heh).
Rioto_Kish May I ask what you meant by 'adopting elements that came easily to you?' Sorry, I don't think my brain is keeping up with me anymore...
If your brain isn't keeping up... it's okay to slow down, take a breath, and give yourself a break! Anyway, I probably shouldn't have used 'elements' there as I wasn't refering specifically to the four elements... poor choice of words on my part. Basically what I was talking about was the aspects/elements of ritual design. For example... the circle, candles, cakes and ale, and whatnot. You don't have to try and adopt all of this at once and don't worry about getting it perfect. If doing cakes and ale for sabbat rituals isn't your thing right now or you don't have time to bake something, don't use it. I didn't use any food-drink elements in my rituals at first, and even now I only do it for sabbats. |
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Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:23 am
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Quote: Generally the Elements complement a lot of the themes you'll learn about very well and if you understand them intimately they can be great for magical work.
Okay, I think this is what I was referring to when I responded. (I haven't read this for a day or two, so I'm a little slow at remembering today, plus I haven't had much sleep due to exams.)
Quote: Put another way, the themes I'm talking about could be said to be the Mysteries. Things such as the cyclical nature of time and existence, the nature of change and transformation, interconnectivity, and whatnot. I find them especially useful for seasonal changes... it's amazing how much the attributions of Water-Air-Fire-Earth paralell Winter-Spring-Summer-Fall.
Mysteries...I've heard that before in regards to Wicca being called a 'mystery religion.' (Okay, I don't think that Wicca was what you meant, sorry) I'm still not understanding how you integrate the 'mysteries' into a rite. By seasonal changes, okay, I can see the connection (interesting!) but I'm still unsure as to how the mysteries are part of the rite. (I REALLY need to catch some sleep before I try and respond to these posts... gonk )
Quote: At any rate, this idea is generally held as true; as Fire, for example, is an active element, you wouldn't want to use it to help you sleep (heh).
I've got a 'four day' weekend starting tomorrow, so in between studying, I'll look up the Four elements more, and save you having to explain things to me eighty-three times (which I now must be getting tedious for you by now! sweatdrop Gosh, I wish I could keep up...I really am sorry!)
Quote: Basically what I was talking about was the aspects/elements of ritual design. For example... the circle, candles, cakes and ale, and whatnot.
So, does this mean that I don't have to do everything straight away? That's really good to hear-uh, hehe...I can't cook. sweatdrop I find candles help me to focus (sounds crazy, I know, but they give me a point to concentrate on)
This has been confusing me for ages- what do you do with food/drink offerings after the ritual? I've heard of them before, but I don't understand what you do with the food and drink as you offer them to the gods.
Okay, I will definitely slow down for the meantime, and when my brain decides it wants to function again, I will keep studying. For now, I'll begin to put what I have learnt into practice (Nihl told me a way to shield myself, so I'd like to be able to put up a strong defense before I start to perform rites) Oh, and one last question (promise it's the last one!) How do I know if what I'm trying to do is working? I mean, if I practice the shielding exercise, how do I know if it's actually there, and not just me imagining it all? Is there anyway to know that what I practice is really happening? I think that's my biggest fear: that I'll practice as a solitary, and if I happen to ever meet another pagan face-to-face and practice with them, they won't be able to recognize what I'm doing, as I'll being imagining it. gonk I'm so scared that this will happen...
Sorry, I'll stop here. Thank you again. |
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Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:06 am
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I'm not neccesarily the best person to talk to on the behalf of mysteries depending on how you approach mysteries. Some of the more Traditionalist Wiccans and Neopagan practitioners would take serious issue with how I approach mysteries. So bear that in mind. A Traditionalist mindset will generally tell you that the mysteries cannot be learned unless you're in a lineaged coven. This is a fair argument, as the term "mystery religion" typically refers to a religion whose knowledge is only confered upon initiation. It's basically set up as a contrast to "revealed religions" which have published scriptures so all the material is available from the get-go.
When I use the word 'mystery' I mean something a bit different though. I'm usually refering to (1) the root of all religious experience (mystical experiences) or (2) a depth of understanding about something that only comes with experience and cannot truly be taught.
When refering to (1), having mystical experiences is in many ways the whole point of ritual; rituals are designed to open the door for such experiences. Drawing down the moon, for example, is about inducing an undescribable feeling of the Moon fusing with your very essence. When refering to (2), here I'm moreso talking about knowledge. For example, when you make the connection between the elemental rotation and the seasonal rotation, suddenly the patterns of the world take on a greater clarity for you that they didn't have before.
There's a really good passage by Scott Cunningham on mysteries... let's see if I can find it again. I think it might help you. It capitalizes more on (2) by revealing that mysteries are often things that everyone is aware of, but are so obvious most people completely miss them. A phrase the Moon taught me in relation to this is to "Seek that which Hides in Plain Sight." I can't seem to find what S. Cunningham wrote on the net right now. At any rate, he prompts you to do what I just said. Find meaning and knowledge in the smallest, most insignifigant things!
Another note, while I did say you don't have to adopt all the elements of ritual right away, if you plan on following a specific tradition you should aim to integrate all of what that tradition requires eventually. Just a little caveat... whee
For food/drink offerings? There are different ways they can be used. Sometimes, particularly at sabbats who have sacrifice as a strong theme (ie, harvest festivals), they might be offered to the Earth. Other times they might be made in offering to some other deity or entity. Other times still they might simply serve as refreshments for the people partaking the ritual... somewhat like communion only much tastier. wink
Rioto_Kish How do I know if what I'm trying to do is working? I mean, if I practice the shielding exercise, how do I know if it's actually there, and not just me imagining it all? Is there anyway to know that what I practice is really happening? I think that's my biggest fear: that I'll practice as a solitary, and if I happen to ever meet another pagan face-to-face and practice with them, they won't be able to recognize what I'm doing, as I'll being imagining it. gonk I'm so scared that this will happen...
That's the million dollar question, isn't it? When reading Penczak's "Inner Temple" I think he put the answer to this question very well. He flatly said that in many ways, you ARE imagining it all, but that is nothing to be afraid of. You're not crazy. Crazy people can't turn the switch off, but you can. The magical mindset does not place the same value on imagination that mainstream society does. The magical individual values exploration of the inner worlds and imagination as much as external validation. Depending on what you're doing, there will be a physical sensation but a lot of it will also be mental. When I ground and center... I physically feel something, but a lot of it is also mental.
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Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:37 pm
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Okay, I think I understand what you mean by 'mysteries' a little better. I have REALLY got to study more (I'm almost finished school and my exams-two to go!- so after I finish-and after the Christmas rush at work dies down-I'll get stuck into studying without having life interrupt me too much!)
I understand what you're saying about the rituals. So, if I wanted to perform an Kemetic ritual (for example-sorry, it was the first thing to pop into my head) and the rite called for certain things (I don't know exactly: candles, food offerings and incense) I must incorporate all of those elements into the ritual. Are their any rites that do not require all elements to be performed? I don't have a problem with structured ones, but I was just wondering if there were, in case I come across one that doesn't require all elements.
Sorry, but uh... what's a caveat? sweatdrop
Quote: For food/drink offerings? There are different ways they can be used. Sometimes, particularly at sabbats who have sacrifice as a strong theme (ie, harvest festivals), they might be offered to the Earth. Other times they might be made in offering to some other deity or entity. Other times still they might simply serve as refreshments for the people partaking the ritual... somewhat like communion only much tastier.
I'm still unsure as to what you mean about offering food and drink to the Earth/deities, etc. Do you leave the food/drink outside after the ritual, or do you eat it as offering to the gods? Sorry if that offended anyone about eating the food-I've just never been sure what you do with it. sweatdrop
'Inner Temple?' I'll have to put that one on my reading list. 3nodding So, if a lot of it is mental, how do empaths feel other people's energies? (Did I just answer that question by asking it?) I've heard about empaths in some of the threads, and I was wondering what was meant by it.
Okay, so if it's just my imagination, that's not a bad thing? That's good news-so, it's kind of like when other religions pray to their God/s. It's largely a mental exercise, but people may feel physical changes too. If I just understood that correctly, then I think I get it.
Thank you!
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