There's hypocrisy inherent in the system.

[Al-aaraaf]

Very well put, you'd receive a cookie if it were possible for me to supply it.  

[Ether-Eating Eskimo]

I could always send an english muffin by mail. I love english muffins.  

[nightwing773]

YAY!!!! Thank you very much!! now that is a speech I wholeheartedly agree with. We here chose a path that feels comfortable, so why do some mimick and make fun of those who do the same in different ways??

Thank you, I wanted to put up something like that before, but could never figure out how to word it biggrin Thank you, you said it perfectly.  

[xdemonicallyxyours13x]

Devils_lilboy

Isel

Well, I can say that after spending enough time studying this guild's general populus, that I have a great problem with some attitudes I've seen.

"I'd rather be this way than acting like a prep"

"Wannabe gangstas"

"Hicks"

"Punk rocker"

"Emo"

And the killer line: "I don't like labels"

Furthermore: "They stare at me"

"My family doesn't like it"

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing a lot of it. Before you tell me "If you don't like it then leave", I'd like to say that there's certain people here who I like and would prefer staying in this guild just for the sake of their being here.

What is so wrong with acting like a prep, or being a gangster, wannabe or not? Is there a problem with being a hick? Is there a problem with acting like the "emo kids"?

You realize that the judgmental attitudes that you bear against those people are the same judgmental attitudes that you try to resist and hate when they're used against you? Try to practice what you preach.

If you're against labels, why are you in a goth guild?

If you don't like how people are against your lifestyle of being a so-called "goth", either quit living the alternative lifestyle or grow a thick skin and shut up. When you confirmed that you yourself were a goth, you automatically accepted the fact that you were gonna get heckled for it and treated differently. Deal with it.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, it's just to make people think. If you find that you're generating hypocrisy or anything else covered in the above, fix yourself, or at least think about it. Hell, if you want, I'd enjoy it if I got some answers to some of the questions I asked.

Thank you, that is all.

I agree as well you are 100% right.... exclaim

very much so  

[.+Melanthios+.]

Thank you for pointing that out. That really needed to be said. And from the looks of it, people are considering their actions......

 

[zz1000zz]

m a r l o w

zz1000zz

Isel

What is so wrong with acting like a prep, or being a gangster, wannabe or not? Is there a problem with being a hick? Is there a problem with acting like the "emo kids"?

Wannabe gansters are pathetic people latching onto a group to be "cool." They act tough because they are too afraid to be themselves.

Hicks are ignorants fools. Bigoted idiots.

Emo kids are whiney and self-centered idiots demanding attention for the most trivial matters.

Yes there is a problem with being any of those.

Ouch. :c

Yeah, i think i need to retract my comment about "emo" people. I accept their are "emos" who are not simply whiny, narcissitic brats. I have never met any, but i was probably wrong in assuming there were none. So, i am sorry for that comment.

I stand by the rest.

MortSanglant

I believe my IQ has dropped significantly by simply reading zz1000zz's responses.

But then again, it's nice that Isel has garnered proof of his original argument.

I love you too.  

[-Isel-]

zz1000zz

m a r l o w

zz1000zz

Isel

What is so wrong with acting like a prep, or being a gangster, wannabe or not? Is there a problem with being a hick? Is there a problem with acting like the "emo kids"?

Wannabe gansters are pathetic people latching onto a group to be "cool." They act tough because they are too afraid to be themselves.

Hicks are ignorants fools. Bigoted idiots.

Emo kids are whiney and self-centered idiots demanding attention for the most trivial matters.

Yes there is a problem with being any of those.

Ouch. :c

Yeah, i think i need to retract my comment about "emo" people. I accept their are "emos" who are not simply whiny, narcissitic brats. I have never met any, but i was probably wrong in assuming there were none. So, i am sorry for that comment.

I stand by the rest.

MortSanglant

I believe my IQ has dropped significantly by simply reading zz1000zz's responses.

But then again, it's nice that Isel has garnered proof of his original argument.

I love you too.

It does seem to me like you've entered the thread with preparations to cause problems, as if you're only playing Devil's advocate to my established points.

Jolly good show, if that's the case- however, if you're taking yourself seriously, then please discontinue.  

[zz1000zz]

Isel

It does seem to me like you've entered the thread with preparations to cause problems, as if you're only playing Devil's advocate to my established points.

Jolly good show, if that's the case- however, if you're taking yourself seriously, then please discontinue.

Actually not. I had no problem with most of what you said. The only two i took issue to were hicks and wannabe gangsters. By definition hicks are close-minded, supporting bigotry, while (wannabe) gangsters increase crime (gangs are founded on criminal aspects). You compared the criticism of those groups to the criticism of goths, who live a lifestyle which does not harm society.

By making this comparison you placed a lifestyle generally described as one of free-thinking (gothic) on the same level as ones which encourage bigotry (hicks) and crime (gangsters/wannabes).

But i have said all i need to say, so unless i need to respond to something i will remain quiet.  

[-Isel-]

Of course, you're thinking "gangsters" in a pre-Thug Life Code world.

No, I won't even raise that argument, because nobody lives by that code anymore.  

[zz1000zz]

Isel

Of course, you're thinking "gangsters" in a pre-Thug Life Code world.

No, I won't even raise that argument, because nobody lives by that code anymore.

I can honestly say i have never heard of that code...  

[Spooky Wasabi Princess]

zz1000zz

Close-mindedness harms society by erecting societal barriers. It harms society by preventing acceptance of all people.

Isn't that just what you're doing by hating these people?  

[zz1000zz]

spooky_sez

zz1000zz

Close-mindedness harms society by erecting societal barriers. It harms society by preventing acceptance of all people.

Isn't that just what you're doing by hating these people?

No. I am not close-minded. I examine them so that i understand them. Then i judge them based upon my current understanding of them.

When i find a group to be, by definition, bigoted or criminal, i hate them with no fear of being close-minded.  

[-Isel-]

zz1000zz

Isel

Of course, you're thinking "gangsters" in a pre-Thug Life Code world.

No, I won't even raise that argument, because nobody lives by that code anymore.

I can honestly say i have never heard of that code...

Obviously you haven't.  

[Henneth Annun]

spooky_sez

Agree agree agree. If you dress differently you WILL GET LOOKED AT. Why are people so suprized when it happens? Gah.


I'm pretty damn judgemental so I don't complain when people look at me a bit longer than they would another person or have some idiot yell out stuff like 'Halloween is over' (which in Australia, doesn't make much sense because we don't even celebrate it).
Luckily I don't get much s**t come my way.

Everyone is a bit of a hypocrit.
And I like labels. I don't get why everyone hates them so much.

This conversation is very intriguing, but I thought I'd take a momment to touch on another subject here...

Hypocrisy is when you say you hold an idea/belief but you really don't.

Ex: Me saying "I support Fascism," would be hypocritical of me because I do not support Fascism.

Hypocrisy is not when you come up with a rule/idea that applies to everyone but not you.

Ex: If I say "All ex-convicts shouldn't be able to apply for gun ownership/have one in their possesion" but believe that I should be able to own a gun even though I am an ex-convict, I am not being hypocritical. (I beleive that is called a double standard, correct me if I am wrong.)

(I'm not a Fascist or an ex-convict, just examples)

Now back to a more related topic.

Stereotypes are overgeneralizations applied to a specific group of people. It's just a way our minds attempt to orgazine our world, instead of getting to know every single person and then putting them in certain catagories based upon that. If Sarah likes pop music, is on a cheerleading squad, and happens to have an obnoxious personality, and Mary,Carla,and Linda happen to have the same qualities, I may be tempted to put everyone who likes pop music and/or is on a cheerleading squad under the catagory of people who annoy me. It makes orgazing the world a lot easier.

There's nothing that wrong with stereotyping, its just something people do, but it can be potentially harmfull.

If I see a kid dressed in a "gangsta" fashion, I may think "Maybe this kid likes rap music...", it doesn't mean he does though. "Maybe" is a key word here people...

Labels are just further attempts to catagorize everything around us and can be used like stereotypes to help classify things.

Ex(sterotypes): Once Josh has decided that people A,B,C,D, and E are most likely skaters based on their dress/observed interests and people F,G,H,I and J are metalheads based on the same observations and Josh knows he likes things that fall under the "metalhead" catagory, he decides he wants to hang out with people who share similar interests and goes to the "metalhead" group because they exhibit a certain style mostly worn by members of that praticular group. If Josh likes Mettalica, maybe these people will like Mettalica as well, and they can discuss metal music together.

Catagorizing things/people help us in our everyday lives in many different ways.

Ex: People may advertise something and direct it toward a certain group of people because they hope more people in group A will be interested in it than group B. If many older people like golf (just an example, it doesn't matter in this case if its true or not) and also watch channel 58 which has older programs running, than golf ball makers or whatever might advertise on that station. They wouldn't advertise it on a channel that deals mostly with kids programing or adult shows. They might advertise more on a sports channel or mentioned above, channel 58.

Labels are ways of indentifying people, such as "He's a punk rocker". You label them based on your observations which correspond with the stereotypes of that group. Punk rocker is the label, he has a bright red mohawk and is wearing a Misfits T shirt might be some stereotpyes that go under the label (mohawks and band T's are the stereotypes here), which allow you to get to the "punk rocker" label in the first place.

Okay next subject...

If you go against societies norms, overcourse your going to attract some amount of attention, why? Because it just isn't the same Levis jeans and tank top you see everyday. The jeans are ripped with chains attatched and the tank top is black with a red anarchy sign in the center, and you have your eyebrow peirced. Ovecourse your going to attract attention...your different!

----------------------
Thanks for reading this,
razorblade6060

P.S. comments/critisisms are welcome.  

[Veruniel]

Keep in mind that not everyone here defines themself as goth. Sharing certain interests that are common in a particular subculture, and seeking out members of that subculture so you can discuss those interests, is not the same as using that subculture's labels to define yourself.