"Your religion, if you choose to give it"

[Rustig]

DR490N

The Bookwyrm

DR490N

what i'm saying is that perhaps some part of them, concious or subconcious, feels dissatisfied or ashamed in some way shape or form of the choice in religion(lets face it, despite what anyone says, polytheism is discouraged in the western world, and generally looked down upon). when it comes down to it, the issue here is pride. do you feel comfortable with your choice in religions? do you feel as if this spiritual path you have chosen is where you belong? do you feel as if your gods care enough for you to treat you as a friend instead of an inferior?(somewhat biased that one. i deal primarily with the celtic gods, and being a dragon, i have some great respect from them. they treat me as an equal, and in fact helped me retake some astral territory). but i digress. back to the topic and point at hand, what i am saying is that i think they should re-evaluate their choice and do some serious "soul-searching"(i despise the term but have utilized it for want of a better word) and really truly look hard at their spiritual path, perhaps seeking out other ways of dealing with spirituality. the way i see it, if you can't be proud enough to come right out and say "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND IF YOU'LL JUDGE ME WRONGFULLY ON IT, ******** YOU.", then you really shouldnt be on that path in the first place.

You're honestly either too young or too ignorant to really understand the first thing about discrimination, so I'm not going to even bother going into it; what I think is hilarious is that you assume I'm ashamed of my religion because I don't want to have to open myself up more than I have to. Am I ashamed of my sexulaity because I'm not screaming about it from the roof tops? There is such as thing as "discretion", and I am honetly a big fan of it. The people who need to know my religious beliefs, those people that my paractice may effect, know and I have had no qualms about expressing them to them.

I do not, however, see any need to express beliefs of a personal nature to strangers, or to people who may otherwise be hostile; I have enough stress in my life to deal with at the moment while I finish my degree, and they've manifested in some very serious health problems this year. I do not need to add to that stress by opening myself up to possible harassment, or even quiet disapproval; I'm simply spread too thin at the time being to have the proper mental faculties to deal with that.

I know who and what I am, and I have a beautiful relationship with my gods and my spirit guides; I'm secure in that, and what I believe. What I am uncomfortable with, as Nihil had begun to express, is what others expect of me. I've been discriminated against before, losing a job in the process, over matters not related to religion; while Canada is a "free country", as you so eloquently put it, it is not a perfect country. Discrimination happens, and I'll hold true to the section of the Rede that reminds me "To will, to know, and to be silent" in order to prevent the possibility of being discriminated against again.

ah. i see my words have been misinterpreted. As is, I am very proud of being who and what i am, as well as having the typical dragon arrogance. I am a pagan, and i do not utilize discretion, considering it to be ultimately useless. the world appears to be preparing for something like a second renaissance, wit hthe rise of paganism, a shift in culture(downward really, and from the bottom you can only go up), environmental thinking, etc. As such i think it is really very foolish to hide oneself. i've always been of the mindset that to stand up in front of others and proudly state what you believe is a good thing, even if you fear discrimination for it. i know i have received more than my fair share of discrimination, often and unfairly. Still I stand strong, and I refuse to budge even a little for some jackass who doesnt like what I believe. if that makes me 'immature' or 'ignorant', so be it. I will stand for what I believe in, even when it is not neccessary.

Discretion ain't useless, chief. Being loud, arrogant and belligerent doesn't foster respect, it just makes everyone think you're a c**t. Which is fine, I suppose, but you also lose out on making a lot of friends and/or valuable experiences.  

[Nihilistic Seraph]

Personally, I'm wondering about the "be true to self" dilema. Where does that stand when you see the self as mutable and constantly changing? Where do you draw the line between stagnation and conforming?  

[twilight insanity]

DR490N

The Bookwyrm

DR490N

what i'm saying is that perhaps some part of them, concious or subconcious, feels dissatisfied or ashamed in some way shape or form of the choice in religion(lets face it, despite what anyone says, polytheism is discouraged in the western world, and generally looked down upon). when it comes down to it, the issue here is pride. do you feel comfortable with your choice in religions? do you feel as if this spiritual path you have chosen is where you belong? do you feel as if your gods care enough for you to treat you as a friend instead of an inferior?(somewhat biased that one. i deal primarily with the celtic gods, and being a dragon, i have some great respect from them. they treat me as an equal, and in fact helped me retake some astral territory). but i digress. back to the topic and point at hand, what i am saying is that i think they should re-evaluate their choice and do some serious "soul-searching"(i despise the term but have utilized it for want of a better word) and really truly look hard at their spiritual path, perhaps seeking out other ways of dealing with spirituality. the way i see it, if you can't be proud enough to come right out and say "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND IF YOU'LL JUDGE ME WRONGFULLY ON IT, ******** YOU.", then you really shouldnt be on that path in the first place.

You're honestly either too young or too ignorant to really understand the first thing about discrimination, so I'm not going to even bother going into it; what I think is hilarious is that you assume I'm ashamed of my religion because I don't want to have to open myself up more than I have to. Am I ashamed of my sexulaity because I'm not screaming about it from the roof tops? There is such as thing as "discretion", and I am honetly a big fan of it. The people who need to know my religious beliefs, those people that my paractice may effect, know and I have had no qualms about expressing them to them.

I do not, however, see any need to express beliefs of a personal nature to strangers, or to people who may otherwise be hostile; I have enough stress in my life to deal with at the moment while I finish my degree, and they've manifested in some very serious health problems this year. I do not need to add to that stress by opening myself up to possible harassment, or even quiet disapproval; I'm simply spread too thin at the time being to have the proper mental faculties to deal with that.

I know who and what I am, and I have a beautiful relationship with my gods and my spirit guides; I'm secure in that, and what I believe. What I am uncomfortable with, as Nihil had begun to express, is what others expect of me. I've been discriminated against before, losing a job in the process, over matters not related to religion; while Canada is a "free country", as you so eloquently put it, it is not a perfect country. Discrimination happens, and I'll hold true to the section of the Rede that reminds me "To will, to know, and to be silent" in order to prevent the possibility of being discriminated against again.

ah. i see my words have been misinterpreted. As is, I am very proud of being who and what i am, as well as having the typical dragon arrogance. I am a pagan, and i do not utilize discretion, considering it to be ultimately useless. the world appears to be preparing for something like a second renaissance, wit hthe rise of paganism, a shift in culture(downward really, and from the bottom you can only go up), environmental thinking, etc. As such i think it is really very foolish to hide oneself. i've always been of the mindset that to stand up in front of others and proudly state what you believe is a good thing, even if you fear discrimination for it. i know i have received more than my fair share of discrimination, often and unfairly. Still I stand strong, and I refuse to budge even a little for some jackass who doesnt like what I believe. if that makes me 'immature' or 'ignorant', so be it. I will stand for what I believe in, even when it is not neccessary.

i find it not ignorant or immatture, stubborn maybe, but i have had to live by the same credo myself. and it is getting to me recently as well, i almost gave up! ugh.... emo well, i am being called a ton of things i'm not by everyone around me, and it's not like it hasn't happened before, but it's the kinda of thing in my life that i hate with a passion. it realy turns on my darker vengeance side of my mind, which makes me very animalistic, hedonistic, selfish, vain, and materialistic. in short, i brood.  

[STLeeJay]

It's probably too late for me to hop into this conversation. I see it was started several months ago. And I haven't been active, for months, either. But I just wanted to toss in my words.

I was, but about 2 months back, asked, at the hospital, if I wanted to "record my religious denomination" (spelling check on that last word there, please?). I was almost suspicious; why would they even want to know? Or did they already know, and wanted to ask my permission to further record it in my appointment record? And if they did already know, then how?! Either way, at the time, I immediately, but politely, declined to give it, out of fear that somebody, that I didn't want to know about my religion, might somehow find out about it.

But as in a recent thread I made, I told you all about my little success story, revealing that telling some people about your religion is a very courageous and brave thing to do, but isn't all that bad; Last week, I decided to take my Paternal Grandmother out for a coffee. Just me and her. All these years, she has thought that I was Christian. But last week, while out getting a "cupajava" (coffee rofl ), I took a deep breath, and with cautiously chosen words, finally told my Christian grandmother, that I was Wiccan. And the best part... She didn't get angry, sad or upset in any way whatsoever. She was, in fact, very supportive and understanding. The only thing she was sad a little about was that I was afraid to tell her in the past. She said that she'll always love me, no matter what, and that she didn't want me to feel afraid to come to her for anything.

With that, I promised her that, from now on, if I needed to tell her something, I would never again fear going to tell her. And then we finished our coffee, talked quite pleasantly, and went home, ending the day with a nice warm hug. ^_^

So I guess, all I'm saying is, if you really don't want to tell anyone, that's fine. But if you feel you're getting stressed and upset because someone in particular doesn't know, and maybe, should know, then don't be afraid. If they truly love you unconditionally, their love for you should not come to an end, no matter what your religion. So if you feel that you do indeed need to tell someone about your religion, don't be afraid. Just practice in your mind how you want to say it, gather yourself up, take a deep breath, and tell them. You never know; they may be more understanding than you think they may be. smile  

[twilight insanity]

Castellan Seamus Stewart

It's probably too late for me to hop into this conversation. I see it was started several months ago. And I haven't been active, for months, either. But I just wanted to toss in my words.

I was, but about 2 months back, asked, at the hospital, if I wanted to "record my religious denomination" (spelling check on that last word there, please?). I was almost suspicious; why would they even want to know? Or did they already know, and wanted to ask my permission to further record it in my appointment record? And if they did already know, then how?! Either way, at the time, I immediately, but politely, declined to give it, out of fear that somebody, that I didn't want to know about my religion, might somehow find out about it.

But as in a recent thread I made, I told you all about my little success story, revealing that telling some people about your religion is a very courageous and brave thing to do, but isn't all that bad; Last week, I decided to take my Paternal Grandmother out for a coffee. Just me and her. All these years, she has thought that I was Christian. But last week, while out getting a "cupajava" (coffee rofl ), I took a deep breath, and with cautiously chosen words, finally told my Christian grandmother, that I was Wiccan. And the best part... She didn't get angry, sad or upset in any way whatsoever. She was, in fact, very supportive and understanding. The only thing she was sad a little about was that I was afraid to tell her in the past. She said that she'll always love me, no matter what, and that she didn't want me to feel afraid to come to her for anything.

With that, I promised her that, from now on, if I needed to tell her something, I would never again fear going to tell her. And then we finished our coffee, talked quite pleasantly, and went home, ending the day with a nice warm hug. ^_^

So I guess, all I'm saying is, if you really don't want to tell anyone, that's fine. But if you feel you're getting stressed and upset because someone in particular doesn't know, and maybe, should know, then don't be afraid. If they truly love you unconditionally, their love for you should not come to an end, no matter what your religion. So if you feel that you do indeed need to tell someone about your religion, don't be afraid. Just practice in your mind how you want to say it, gather yourself up, take a deep breath, and tell them. You never know; they may be more understanding than you think they may be. smile

*i put my painted-nailed hand to my mouth, curled up, and my eyes get wet, and i have to come up and hug you quickly.*
that is so sweet! whee and such a perfectly touching thing to say in this thread. 4laugh heart i realy would never expect anyone to talk about the basic sobby so-called "children's world" type of event like that, nor for it to be so touching. *blubbing like a girl.*  

[Astral_Moonlight]

I find it very uncomfortable when I am at a public gathering that is supposed to be unaffiliated and the people running the event ask the whole group to pray before eating or commencing with the ceremonies or whatever. I simply don't do it but it's really awkward being the only one not doing it and I get those disapproveing looks.  

[Starlock]

cutiemonkey8

I find it very uncomfortable when I am at a public gathering that is supposed to be unaffiliated and the people running the event ask the whole group to pray before eating or commencing with the ceremonies or whatever. I simply don't do it but it's really awkward being the only one not doing it and I get those disapproveing looks.

A lot of people just assume you're Christian. It isn't a bad starting assumption given that some 70%+ of the country IS Christian, but still.  

[twilight insanity]

Starlock

cutiemonkey8

I find it very uncomfortable when I am at a public gathering that is supposed to be unaffiliated and the people running the event ask the whole group to pray before eating or commencing with the ceremonies or whatever. I simply don't do it but it's really awkward being the only one not doing it and I get those disapproveing looks.

A lot of people just assume you're Christian. It isn't a bad starting assumption given that some 70%+ of the country IS Christian, but still.

.... stare yes it is. in gainesville, your either christian, or your not. if you are, then christians like you, and non-christians find you annoying. if your not, than your considered "normal" by non-christians, and in need of saving by christians. i agree with the feelings that cutiemonkey8 expressed. -.-  

[Somnolent Insomniac]

I applied to an all girls Catholic school around my hometown. I really wanted to go to an all girls school, and even though it is 45k a year, I applied anyway in hopes of scholarships.

It asks for your religion, so I put down Pagan. I then found out that nearly all the scholarships are for "activity and leadership within the Christian Community", and "spreading the word".

Yeah, I went to a public university instead.  

[Somnolent Insomniac]

Starlock

cutiemonkey8

I find it very uncomfortable when I am at a public gathering that is supposed to be unaffiliated and the people running the event ask the whole group to pray before eating or commencing with the ceremonies or whatever. I simply don't do it but it's really awkward being the only one not doing it and I get those disapproveing looks.

A lot of people just assume you're Christian. It isn't a bad starting assumption given that some 70%+ of the country IS Christian, but still.

I've been dating my boyfriend for five years, and he's a devoted Presbyterian.

For some reason, his parents STILL think I am Christian, and he has not corrected them on this belief. He also refuses to allow my religion into our wedding, because it would cause a lack of attendance by his family.

I'm a Pagan, and a reverend. But I think they are unaware of both. Religion doesn't come up in conversations with them, and I don't want to just out of the blue tell them.  

[l i t h i u m b l o o m]

I never share my religious beliefs with random people (IRL, of course). I couldn't help but get a little upset with what Dragon was saying. I am quite happy with my beliefs. I'm proud of them. However, only one member of my family knows I'm not Christian. It is not because I am ashamed. My grandmother has done so much for my father and I since my mother passed. She is a deeply religious woman. If I told her I was anything other than Christian, she might, quite literally, die. If she didn't, she'd likely think she did something wrong. Am I not deserving of my title because I don't want to break an old woman's heart? When belonging to a group society deems strange, it is often best to use discretion when sharing that information. True, we are supposed to have Freedom of Religion. However, we also have Freedom of Speech. Just because I can legally cuss out every random person I meet, that doesn't mean I should, or that I'm not proud of my voice because I don't.  

[Advent Shadow]

Christo...

All this is reminding me of an interesting conversation that took place between a stranger and myself, at my local library. Sanford is, to say the least, a "Christian-city" (there are 8-10 churches on a single strip of road), and this woman was indeed a Christian. After a couple minutes of simple banter, she noticed the pentagram I wear proudly on my arm... And thus it began. She started asking the usual questions: "what does that mean?" "are you comfortable with your faith?" "what made you turn from the light of God?" You know, all the stuff that starts to put you in an uncomfortable position. But I remained calm, gave clear and polite answers to her questions, and all that jazz. After she told me some (IMO) truly horrifying stories about her kids speaking in tongues, how she dated a pagan in college, and much more than I care to go into... *shudder*... She ended the conversation by saying I was a very nice and polite young man, and that she would pray that I found my way back to the light of God. I was so weirded out that I had to go home and take a cold shower. But I digress...

What I'm saying is revealing your beliefs to anyone is a matter of personal choice, and even the most God-fearing person can be made to hear reason (though they may not listen or believe it). I wouldn't worry too much with it. It doesn't make you less of a person when faced with that choice. Besides, there are still far too many that would rather cast people in an ill light because of their faith, than accept them as another human being. The world has a long way to go before anyone can truly be comfortable with themselves or each other.

Good luck and good faith to you all.  

[twilight insanity]

Advent Shadow

Christo...

All this is reminding me of an interesting conversation that took place between a stranger and myself, at my local library. Sanford is, to say the least, a "Christian-city" (there are 8-10 churches on a single strip of road), and this woman was indeed a Christian. After a couple minutes of simple banter, she noticed the pentagram I wear proudly on my arm... And thus it began. She started asking the usual questions: "what does that mean?" "are you comfortable with your faith?" "what made you turn from the light of God?" You know, all the stuff that starts to put you in an uncomfortable position. But I remained calm, gave clear and polite answers to her questions, and all that jazz. After she told me some (IMO) truly horrifying stories about her kids speaking in tongues, how she dated a pagan in college, and much more than I care to go into... *shudder*... She ended the conversation by saying I was a very nice and polite young man, and that she would pray that I found my way back to the light of God. I was so weirded out that I had to go home and take a cold shower. But I digress...

What I'm saying is revealing your beliefs to anyone is a matter of personal choice, and even the most God-fearing person can be made to hear reason (though they may not listen or believe it). I wouldn't worry too much with it. It doesn't make you less of a person when faced with that choice. Besides, there are still far too many that would rather cast people in an ill light because of their faith, than accept them as another human being. The world has a long way to go before anyone can truly be comfortable with themselves or each other.

Good luck and good faith to you all.

...wow....o.o i am simply ...stunned. that was a captivating little story, shadow. i must say, it realy makes me feel even MORE imensly proud of my decision to forgoe religion altogether. i still have my many christian friends in their christian church group that i still go to. i still love my research on pagan and neo-pagan beliefs. i definately will not stop my studies deep into the most controversial philosophies i know of. but to be able to simply choose to devote myself to the search for the truth makes me feel so powerfull!  

[born2rock16]

I agree completely with cutiemonkey8 ....I've been there and it bothers me extreemly. Even at family gatherings.....EVERYBODY in my family is christian, and they always have to pray. I refuse it most of the time as well. And while true about the large statistical part people whom are Christian, it bothers me that people assume that since most are christian it's fine to try to push it on those who chose something different than there own religious beliefs. This is striceky opinion and personal experience.

I feel discoureged, apalled, and just annoyed at the things that DR490N said. You know, I'm comfortable in my own skin, and I'm comfortable with my beliefs about whatever. I'm comfortable with being an ecclectic-Neo-pagan. I agree that it's utter choice what religion you are, as it is your sexual preference. It's NATURAL that people feel uncomfortable talking to certain people, it's NATURAL not to want to be prosecuted for your choices religious, or any other. it's NATURAL, and it means NO SUCH thing that you are dissatisfied by yourchoices OR YOURSELF! And guess what, some people may acctually like to feel inferior to their Gods, some people BELIEVE THAT WAY!!! Here you are saying that you hate people passing judgment and yet that is what YOU are doing to others. it's reather hipocritical what you are saying......and don't keep trying to butter up what you are saying, IT"S NOT WORKING!

It's CHOICE to believe what you believe, and CHOICE to say what you believe. it's called FREEDOM!

I love my religion, I know that, and you don't need to....nobody needs to know dammit, and if I don't have to go as far as to tell somebosy my religion, I WON'T! I agree with Starlock completely! You are being immature. take what you will. And oh no, I'm being mean, well if this is what you call mean, you better toughen up, because there is alot worse, and people alot meaner than this out in the world, and you'll have to get used to that one of these days.
I've spoken my peace, and that's all there is to my opinion.

Castellan Seamus Stewart, that is so sweet, I loved that little story about you and your grams....it reminds me of my grams in a way that there is that true and all being love between us!

I think it depends on who asks about my religion. a couple cousins know, and a few friends, I wouldn't dare say anything about it to my gramps, he was going to be a catholic priest, so, it's out of the question. And my mom seems weirded out a little by it...

A guy in art asked me about the pentacle on a peice of greenware that I had been working on last year, he said what is it, I told him 'it's a pentacle' he asked why it was on my art, and I said because it's a symbol that I use in my religion, I'm pagan. he asked why I chose to be pagan, I said that 'it works for me...I'm not really sure, I just feel drawn to it.' he said 'oh, ok' and that was all there was to it. I felt I could tell him, since he;s a really sweet guy, that I would consider a friend. on the other hand, I told a girl about my choice (when we were still friends, we don't and will not EVER talk again) she got all pissy about it. she was christian, then agnostic, then just that day after a talk with another of our friends father about religion, decided that she was christian again. she said, 'well, sometimes these paths lead people down the wrong way, and it's not a good choice.' I was SO PISSED. so I simply told her that It was my choice, and that I didn't care what she thought. then dropped it...I think she said something else, but I ignored her. after her little Jab is when I REALLY started realizing she wasn't a good friend, and that she didn't care about me.

My Best friend is s severe christian, and that's fine, we know eachothers religions, we just don't talk about them cause we both get annoyed, and we know that. We are good friends, and we respect eachother, so religion doesn't matter to us, and we don't let it get in the way of our friendship!

I don't know....It works.

Blessed Be!  

[Azana Brown]

Sea of Rains

I applied to an all girls Catholic school around my hometown. I really wanted to go to an all girls school, and even though it is 45k a year, I applied anyway in hopes of scholarships.

It asks for your religion, so I put down Pagan. I then found out that nearly all the scholarships are for "activity and leadership within the Christian Community", and "spreading the word".

Yeah, I went to a public university instead.

*chuckles* When I was getting geared up for college, my stepdad gave me a good of UM Christian scholarships. All of them had one of the following criteria:

1.) Going to one of the colleges listed in the book. (Nope.)
2.) Planning to be a minister. (Nope!)
3.) Minority status (Sorry for being a Caucasian...)

There was one that didn't require any of that. Of course, I had to already be IN college to get it.

So, no financial aid (as it turns out, my folks make more than I initially thought so need-based was out), save for Federal PLUS loans.

Of course, the fact that I'm Pagan and a horrible liar may have also decreased my chances of getting any of them, even if i qualified.