Goth Thread

[Ether-Eating Eskimo]

Yeh. confused This was a bad idea.

Someone can lock this thread now I guess. smile  

[Devils_lilboy]

Crimson Thanatos

I was just thinking, I've seen a lot of good Goth 101, etc. threads in the music subforum here. Maybe someone should make an entire thread in the GAIA forums about every aspect of Goth, the fashion, attitude, subsubcultures, music, etc.

It might help a bit, since barely anyone I meet knows what it is.

I searched goth rock on Yahoo ANswers to find some good bands, and every single question I found was answered with a million heavy metal bands. I saw two answers with actual Goth Rock, and neither of them were chosen as the favorite answer. ><

I also saw a million answers about how goth is just another way for teens to get out their angst, and by time you're 21 you've forgotten all about it. rolleyes

I may only be 14, but I know for a fact that I like the music. XD

thats funny..... I am 18 turning 19 the music is amazing  

[Henneth Annun]

GilAskan

XWraith_LordX

m a r l o w

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

Excellent point, certainly, but its hard to avoid even under the best circumstances. No matter how accurate, no matter how well researched and cited, no matter the specific focus, threads about the Goth culture always turn into "What is goth?" arguments, typically leading to:

Person 1: Goth is just about the music. Nothing more.
Person 2: I LUV MARILIN MANSIN!1!
Person 3: Goth is a state of mind, you posers.
Person 1: State of mind? That's prententious bullshit spread by people who aren't actually part of the goth culture but desperately want to legitimize themselves.
Person 2: I LUV SILPNOT!1!
Person 3: You don't know what you're talking about. You're just repeating what the media wants you to think. Stereotypes spread by people they benefit.

And so on, and so on, for eternity.

It's damn near impossible to avoid, as said, even under the best conditions.

Should we then create a section in the first post of this soon-to-be-born-sticky that talks about the different opinions of what goth truly is?

ex:
The Music Section....
The Fashion Section....
The State-of-Mind Section ....

Then we would end up with people arguing about whether they should have different sections or not. We should put a notice on the bottom of the post that says something like (in a nutshell):

If you're here to talk about the music, talk about the music. If you're here to talk about the fashion, talk about the fashion. If you're here to say how goth isn't a fashion, then don't post in this thread. If you have a bone to pick with the "goth-fashion" believers, carry it on in a different thread. You can make your opinions known elsewhere.

What do you think of that idea?

Restricting could be bad, and saying it bluntly makes it worse.
You can't have "sections" in a Goth thread. People who like SLIPKNOOOTT!!11 will be there and they might hate people who like GOTHIC LOLITAA!111 who are also present and blah blah blah. Certain Goths have certain beliefs and in a thread were you're clearly going to be talking about Goth there will be a major clash of interest. (ex. state-of-mind vs. music)

This section thing would work in a guild, but not in a thread. And you'd have to make 4 threads to cover it all. Which I would NOT do.

Egh...your right. We should just drop the idea since it's almost impossible to make it work...I'm not asking you to make 4 threads, and no I wouldn't do it either.

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

XWraith_LordX

m a r l o w

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

Excellent point, certainly, but its hard to avoid even under the best circumstances. No matter how accurate, no matter how well researched and cited, no matter the specific focus, threads about the Goth culture always turn into "What is goth?" arguments, typically leading to:

Person 1: Goth is just about the music. Nothing more.
Person 2: I LUV MARILIN MANSIN!1!
Person 3: Goth is a state of mind, you posers.
Person 1: State of mind? That's prententious bullshit spread by people who aren't actually part of the goth culture but desperately want to legitimize themselves.
Person 2: I LUV SILPNOT!1!
Person 3: You don't know what you're talking about. You're just repeating what the media wants you to think. Stereotypes spread by people they benefit.

And so on, and so on, for eternity.

It's damn near impossible to avoid, as said, even under the best conditions.

Should we then create a section in the first post of this soon-to-be-born-sticky that talks about the different opinions of what goth truly is?

ex:
The Music Section....
The Fashion Section....
The State-of-Mind Section ....

Then we would end up with people arguing about whether they should have different sections or not. We should put a notice on the bottom of the post that says something like (in a nutshell):

If you're here to talk about the music, talk about the music. If you're here to talk about the fashion, talk about the fashion. If you're here to say how goth isn't a fashion, then don't post in this thread. If you have a bone to pick with the "goth-fashion" believers, carry it on in a different thread. You can make your opinions known elsewhere.

What do you think of that idea?

Restricting could be bad, and saying it bluntly makes it worse.
You can't have "sections" in a Goth thread. People who like SLIPKNOOOTT!!11 will be there and they might hate people who like GOTHIC LOLITAA!111 who are also present and blah blah blah. Certain Goths have certain beliefs and in a thread were you're clearly going to be talking about Goth there will be a major clash of interest. (ex. state-of-mind vs. music)

This section thing would work in a guild, but not in a thread. And you'd have to make 4 threads to cover it all. Which I would NOT do.

Egh...your right. We should just drop the idea since it's almost impossible to make it work...I'm not asking you to make 4 threads, and no I wouldn't do it either.

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"  

[Henneth Annun]

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

XWraith_LordX

m a r l o w

Restricting could be bad, and saying it bluntly makes it worse.
You can't have "sections" in a Goth thread. People who like SLIPKNOOOTT!!11 will be there and they might hate people who like GOTHIC LOLITAA!111 who are also present and blah blah blah. Certain Goths have certain beliefs and in a thread were you're clearly going to be talking about Goth there will be a major clash of interest. (ex. state-of-mind vs. music)

This section thing would work in a guild, but not in a thread. And you'd have to make 4 threads to cover it all. Which I would NOT do.

Egh...your right. We should just drop the idea since it's almost impossible to make it work...I'm not asking you to make 4 threads, and no I wouldn't do it either.

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"

They would probably answer with "because of their evil lyrics and the fact that everyone says they are".
I ask people why they hate the president (of the USA) and I rarely get a decent answer. Latley I've taken to carying around a cane and people ask me why I carry it, I just ask them why they wear their hair in that style.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

XWraith_LordX

m a r l o w

Restricting could be bad, and saying it bluntly makes it worse.
You can't have "sections" in a Goth thread. People who like SLIPKNOOOTT!!11 will be there and they might hate people who like GOTHIC LOLITAA!111 who are also present and blah blah blah. Certain Goths have certain beliefs and in a thread were you're clearly going to be talking about Goth there will be a major clash of interest. (ex. state-of-mind vs. music)

This section thing would work in a guild, but not in a thread. And you'd have to make 4 threads to cover it all. Which I would NOT do.

Egh...your right. We should just drop the idea since it's almost impossible to make it work...I'm not asking you to make 4 threads, and no I wouldn't do it either.

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"

They would probably answer with "because of their evil lyrics and the fact that everyone says they are".
I ask people why they hate the president (of the USA) and I rarely get a decent answer. Latley I've taken to carying around a cane and people ask me why I carry it, I just ask them why they wear their hair in that style.

Funny how the general public perception works, eh?  

[Henneth Annun]

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"

They would probably answer with "because of their evil lyrics and the fact that everyone says they are".
I ask people why they hate the president (of the USA) and I rarely get a decent answer. Latley I've taken to carying around a cane and people ask me why I carry it, I just ask them why they wear their hair in that style.

Funny how the general public perception works, eh?

Hehe, it's everything that makes lunches and trips to the grocery harder....(ex:people staring, or coming up to you and saying "i liove marilyn manson too" out of nowhere) And just, life in general...  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

GilAskan

There's also an issue of breaking it up so much, even if you were to present all the information in one thread. If you don't have a single objective statement about goth, people will pick it apart. Maybe two definitions are fine, but if you put up more than the major two, people will start asking "Well, if there's more than one definition, mine is just as legitimate: Goths are satan-worshippers/depressed/is a phase/etc."

That's funny because I got into an argument with someone yesterday (don't ask how it started...) where the problem you speak of was encountered. I eventually gave up and walked away, letting the other person live on in their ignorance...

Me: That's not goth, where did you get that idea?*knows perfectly well where they did get it*
Them: Well then what IS goth
Me: It actually depends on who you ask but most of us can agree that it's a split between music, a fashion, and a state of mind-
Them: If they're many definitions then isn't mine right as well?
Me: No because slipknot isn't goth! *starting to get annoyed*
Them: Everyone says they are!
Me: Just because a vast number of the public believes they are doesn't make them so. Go look up goth music, slipknot isn't goth, and no those wierd masks don't make them goth either!
Them: You wouldn't be goth then-(they're refering to a previous part of the conversation)
Me: No I would be, it would just make you ignorant.*walks away*

I tend to think of good lines to end conversations just in time.

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"

They would probably answer with "because of their evil lyrics and the fact that everyone says they are".
I ask people why they hate the president (of the USA) and I rarely get a decent answer. Latley I've taken to carying around a cane and people ask me why I carry it, I just ask them why they wear their hair in that style.

Funny how the general public perception works, eh?

Hehe, it's everything that makes lunches and trips to the grocery harder....(ex:people staring, or coming up to you and saying "i liove marilyn manson too" out of nowhere) And just, life in general...

Yeah, and the fact that most see it as a personality rather than a culture leads to many a rigid stereotype.  

[Henneth Annun]

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

XWraith_LordX

-Resurrected Writer-

Better yet, ask them, "Well, what do you think makes them goth?"

They would probably answer with "because of their evil lyrics and the fact that everyone says they are".
I ask people why they hate the president (of the USA) and I rarely get a decent answer. Latley I've taken to carying around a cane and people ask me why I carry it, I just ask them why they wear their hair in that style.

Funny how the general public perception works, eh?

Hehe, it's everything that makes lunches and trips to the grocery harder....(ex:people staring, or coming up to you and saying "i liove marilyn manson too" out of nowhere) And just, life in general...

Yeah, and the fact that most see it as a personality rather than a culture leads to many a rigid stereotype.

People in the culture may share some personality traits (which I suppose could have something to do with why they're goth in the first place) but it isn't just that. *laptop battery low, have to go recharge it*  

[MediaclCunt]

I think it's a wonderful idea.  

[Henneth Annun]

MediaclCunt

I think it's a wonderful idea.

I'm curious, did you read the last ten or so posts??? If you still think it's a good idea or you have a way to make it run smoothly, tell us why/how.  

[misunderstood_001]

Well Im 21 and still goignt strong haha.

I guess the problem with goth is that thers always a discisiona bout it, and a thread about it would only make things wors I guess. Everyone got there opinion on what is goth or not, and no one can really say wats the truth. And when it comes to style, thers a lot of diferent sub stiles to goth: my little pony/curry and so on...

To me a goth is someone whos listening to goth and goth(ic) rock.
If you want a list of good bands, I recomend the book "Gothic Rock" by Mick Mercer.  

[Henneth Annun]

thndercats

Well Im 21 and still goignt strong haha.

I guess the problem with goth is that thers always a discisiona bout it, and a thread about it would only make things wors I guess. Everyone got there opinion on what is goth or not, and no one can really say wats the truth. And when it comes to style, thers a lot of diferent sub stiles to goth: my little pony/curry and so on...

To me a goth is someone whos listening to goth and goth(ic) rock.
If you want a list of good bands, I recomend the book "Gothic Rock" by Mick Mercer.

Please work on your spelling and grammer. Not using proper grammer/spelling makes it slightly confusing and a little diffucult to read... I'm sure everyone will apreciate it if your write properly...