Is it really right or is it actually against what they wish?

[Dameon the -V-]

I came to steal your heart away...
Insanity is a state of mind my dear mobius. As I take it you base everything on that state of mind or the chaos theory, no? That is good and dandy but the chaos theory has its loop-holes and the insanity of man only goes too far. The dream world ends and the real world begins and the "insanity" that we compare things to is the same exact emotion/mind state. Point given that it comes in "degrees" the person mind state is still in the same confusion. "insanity" as you put it is the mind wrestling itself with the realities and the truths it presents itself with correct? well with that said suicide victims seem to think that the realities are too hard and if they present themself with that "truth" they are not insane just lead astray by the thoughts of a dwindling mind which finds no outputs in life. Given my "demons" as you put it I have taken a completely offensive stand-point on this subject. Biased isnt bad either my friend it is better than staying completely "mysterious" and "all knowing" all the time it leaves you with a taste of humanity after all mono-tone speeches are best left to Microsoft Clipboard and
(im at a lose for his name I was just thinking about him) the really intelligent guy who cant use his voice but only his eye-lids.

@bella

I am fine. Enraged and letting my demons loose for once but fine. I cant stay sympathetic all the time it just doesnt work. I am enraged by the fact that someone can think of such ridiculous answers to a "venting" post. on a side note my friends are pissing me off as well

...I walked away with a Soul Mate

 

[Mileena Chardonnay]

Ah, but Dammie-kins, the reality is NOT presented by oneself. The Reality is ever-present, and existent for all. It is the perception of that reality that draws the lines. It is not the truths it presents itself, but the lies it creates to relieve the pressure. The mind must bend to cope with the horrors and trials of life. Bend it too far and it snaps. The mind may be broken, but it is not dwindling. It is merely short-circuited, sending its energies in the wrong places to try and achieve a fairly logical end. Worse, it knows not that there is mis-direction. It is not that there is NO output; nay, the problem is that the resulting output is not the intended one.

Considering the arguement of biased versus open, would you honestly say ignorance for purpose of preference over a flexible standpoint which allows for negotiation?

Oh, and in consideration of the arguement of monotonous preaching, you can go f**k yourself. I just try to defend my side of the story and make my point, and you just try to turn that to sh*t just because you're in a pissy mood! THIS IS A DEBATE, NOT A F**KIN' SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!!

Good day to you sir.  

[Dameon the -V-]

I came to steal your heart away...

Mate if I intended to smear you I would but now that you have presented some form of "humanity" I seem to want to reconsider. It is true a open statement is considered to be basically monotone because you lack any thought behind it. Sides are taken because you believe in them and if you stay in the middle you will eventually run into this your braininess. Being biased gives one side while the other side gives there's but on the other hand your opinion does not give us any true information. It will give us insight into the situation but no opinion on it because it is "open"

This "smear" campaign as you put it will be put to an end right now. Stop attacking others in this post mate. You are being blantantly rude and it in my point of view is repulsive. Your point is valid but once again does not give others insight. In a debate difference will arise you cannot stay sunny and balmy all the time in cinncinati. And this "pissy" mood as you put it was because of your post and I actually left it "open" as you said but it could be another (highly doubtful) person like you doing the exact same stuff.

Back to the debate

Bending to reality isn't an option mobius. Our brains are hard-wired to reality its when we attempt to dis-attach ourselves from it that we become insane. You play life out to be a hard, long, and dangerous path but is there not good things too? This might be credited if you are a pessimistic person or an optimistic person but life is what you make it so if you make it that way it will be. The ultimate form of humanity is the form of choice. We are human beings for god sake we can do anything we want. If we want to get stronger, we go out and lift some weights. If we want to get smarter, we go out and read a few books. If we want to be more important, we go out and we get a public speaking or government job. "short circuiting" of the mind as you put it isnt an actual probability because a "short circuit" would mean that it would just shut down. No suicide, No murder, Just a coma. A dwindling mind is possible and highly probable because as life progress's is it not the nature of us to forget something? and as we continue on down this road of "life" we tend to forget more and more and when we reach our "golden oldies" we tend to forget even more. A disease is to blame for most of this but it is more likely that the mind will dwindle at old age.

=welcome to the debate section mobius it isnt allways peaches -ask dronze-=

...I walked away with a Soul Mate

 

[Mileena Chardonnay]

I never said it was. The outburst of 'anger' was merely something to defy your impression of monotony. And sure, my points are very open-ended, and subject to interpretation, but it does not mean there is no opinion behind them. There are viewpoints behind each one. The posts I go in-depth on, the ones I expand with more posts are the ones with opinion. It is merely the presenation of the opposite opinion at the same time that makes it fair. I try to acknowledge all opions by seeing things from all sides. Hell, I could probably debte with myself, given a working topic. The point is, while I have opinion, I also have support for my 'opponent'. It adds interest to an arguement to have both sides well-armed.

I shall stop this 'attacking'; however, I'd like to point out I only attack when I feel attacked.

As for the matter of bias, if an open-ended viewpoint offers 'no true information', as you put it, I could just as easily argue that a biased one converts true information into embellishment for the sake of trying to re-inforce the point. A biased person will utilize any facts to support themselves, then go back and alter those facts over and over again once they've run out. The biased man is desperate to the point of frenzy; required to re-cycle the limited knowledge when new information acting contrary is presented. Preference can be the cause of great bigotry; I know this all too well. I could very well say I am biased right now, in my beliefs on biased. But my arguement presents its own point in the demonstration of bias. I'm sure someone like Bellabie or Czarina could expand upon it further, and I'm equally sure you have some retort. Either way, I shan't respond any longer. I have said my piece. Now I leave it for your interpretation.

Back on topic

When I say 'short-circuit', I mean not physically but spiritually and emotionally; the meta-physical.

Bending to reality is sometimes not a choice. In life, there are a great many joys, yes, but there are also situations and circumstances beyond our control. The mind must bend to accomadate these circumstances, and it only avoids fracture when the joys are used as a healing salve. To the suicidal mind, all joys are fleeting, and therefore useless. It is merely improvising with what is has.

Equally, as age can sometimes dull the mind, it also has the capacity to sharpen it as well. Not all senior citizen are senile, and certainly not all of them are forgetful. Sure their total memory loss on average is greater than any other age group, but their minds still function, more or less, properly. Also, the odds of a mind dwindling in the sense you put it for younger suicide offenders is relatively low. Now, degenration beyond the body, spiritual 'dwindling', is a completely agreeable concept. There are those who have aged before their time, who just want it all to end because it feel like it should end. I know that feeling all too well, but I fight it just the same. All you guys are one of the weapons I use to stave it off, and I'm proud to say that. Still, 'spiritual dwindling' is a powerful force, hard to deny. It seems like a function of nature to the sufferer; elders know when their time to die is nearing. A trifle over-dramatic, sure, but altered logic is still logical in its own sense.

Looking at your arguement about doing anything we want, there is still problems. Sure, we can read a book; it won't necessarily make us smarter, though. Sure, we can lift weights, but that is not 100% guaranteed to create muscle tissue. If a person wants to get a government job, they don't just go out and get it. There is work involved. Nay, there is HEART involved. Suicidals lack the strength of heart to defy their surroundings, to rise above the dark perception that has them bound. Their hearts have been worn away. Their defenses have been shattered. Perhaps they are weak, perhaps they are pitiful excuses for human beings. Or... Perhaps... They're merely lost. Perhaps there is an element of innocence we are all forgetting.

Perhaps we're all just great, silly children, doing what we do best and merely hoping for the best.  

[Dameon the -V-]

I came to steal your heart away...

"...The scurrying of the mice is only a ripple of the madness around them..."

We are not getting anywhere but to find out none of us truely know the answer

We argue about things beyond our age and widom so we cannot truely now the answer. Im pulling out of this thread as it has exceeded its parameters and I am no longer willing to explain a suggestion to a question that is worth answering.

Suicide victims are well life's losers and we can all agree on that. Life is a game )there ya go mobius to further your quote( and ultimately we have to win or lose in that game. Multiple levels usually varying with how you let your character "level up" and how you continue there skills. Suicide victims are the people who *metaphorically speaking* Face sephiroth from FF7 at a lvl 23 and dont wish to see themselves get completely demolished

...I walked away with a Soul Mate

 

[Bellabie]

Mobius Nightshade

Ah, but Dammie-kins, the reality is NOT presented by oneself. The Reality is ever-present, and existent for all. It is the perception of that reality that draws the lines.

You, sir, ought to watch or read What the Bleep. The movie, as I watched it last night (accompanied, suitably, by Rocky Horror Picture Show), presented quantum in a light I'd not seen.
The main point, though, of the movie was to say exactly, "No, there is not an ever-present reality." For perception alters reality.
I disagree and, in a mind-set more like yours, typically, say that there is no definite "reality."

If you've a chance to watch it, be wary that I believe it is best suited for an advanced middle-school or, perhaps, high school classroom. Some bits exist merely for humour, some for teaching, and others for a cinematic experience.

I do agree, sir, that it was not entirely "fair" for Dammie-kins to release his anger here, but, on the same note, you mustn't attack, either.

One must be biased. You speak of the biased man, well, I am the biased girl and I think that there is little difference in your bias from his. After all, he leaves as much open to rebuttal as you do.

b  

[Mileena Chardonnay]

Indeed. I did admit my bias in my last post, Bellabie. And sure, it may not be fair to attack when attacked, but it is merely instinct to defend, is it not? Fairness has little to do with that. It may come as a shock to you, but we are a man who operates on instinct alone. Our 'logic' merely comes from what makes sense to us collectively, from what our individual instincts label as sensible and insane. I am indeed sorry if I have offended anybody, but it is mere reflex.

As for the movie, perhaps I'll look it up sometime. I'm already a fan of the utter perversity of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, after all...  

[Bellabie]

Mobius Nightshade

As for the movie, perhaps I'll look it up sometime. I'm already a fan of the utter perversity of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, after all...

Well, they're quite different in genre, really, but they are very interesting together.
I recall a friend asking, "Which one [of these] is more trippy, do you think?"
b  

[Dameon the -V-]

Hrmm....

Maybe its best If I pull out of the serious topic and debate forum. I love it so but I seem to cause an up-roar when I take an offensive stand-point on a topic of importance to me.

Debating consist of two things. The debators and the Debatee's and these can be broken down further. (this seems really un-intelligent...) The debators often will resort to offensive tactics and in a real debating situation is a very useful tool to overthrow the "opposition." Only a good Debatee is able to cope fluctuate and in turn throw back an attacking response to make the other person defend there point. Granted we don't have any valid points because we talk about something that cannot be "Researched" unless you know Jesus came down and En-ron got back together and they formed the multi-billionaire company "JESUS CORP!" and decided to take up research in resurrection.

I believe this topic has lost its lust and we are became more elusively drawn towards more entertaining subject as that of the "rocky horror picture film" which I am in utter love with!

"Lets do the time warp again! Lets doo the time warp agaaaaaaaaaain!"
Its my favorite song in the movie (better than meat-loafs end movie song)  

[Mileena Chardonnay]

No, Dammie-kins. You are a worthy adversary, and I would not have you defeated so easily. Please, linger a bit longer. I do so enjoy bickering with the likes of you.  

[Bellabie]

This thread is about suicide, but I wonder about another topic.
Suicide... Heaven/Hell... souls.

Do you believe in souls? (My friend and I have been debating over it. It's peculiar, though, because we aren't exactly in opposition.)
b  

[Dameon the -V-]

If anyone remembers we had a discussion on souls, heaven, and hell

It did not turn out well

@ mobius
I do not like arguing as much as I use too. I still have some fight left in me but I'll stay passive  

[Bellabie]

Did we?
Oh... I may remember...
Humblest apologies, friends.

I think that souls may exist, (And, no, Master Nightshade, I do not need you reiterate your "everything is possible" speech.) but I am unsure if they do, for there is as much proof towards them as not.
b  

[Mileena Chardonnay]

Then consider Carpenter's Theory; All exists because you believe it exists. All happens because you believe it happens, because you will it to happen. Like a dowser with a divining rod, you cause your own vibrations without being aware of it. Does a soul exist? To answer, merely ask 'Do you want it to exist?'  

[Bellabie]

Ah, but, friend, it only will exist if I believe it will every fibre of my being.
And this comes back to quantum physics (I think you'd like quantum physics, Master Nighthade).
Fancy that.
b