silver ravenwolf?

[devils_muze1989]

I don't like her because, she putts spells in her books that are unethical, and promote tampering with someones will...and she has these kind of spells all throughout her spell books and even her information books...and I do not and will not condone unethical spell casting or spell work, Magic working or energy working of any kind...  

[MuleQueenie]

I do not mind her work. In my frist years if studing it was one of her books I picked up. But over the years I gather information from everywhere I could. So even though some of her writing I don't agree with, there is still some that I can get where she comes from.  

[lady silver45]

I have one of her books mostly it is a dust collecter but i have also asked others about her work and most of them agree with the post here..

I think that is why it is a dust collector but i have also compared to other writers we only have to be careful of what we use and dont use

I myself do not put spells on others I do not like to tamper with others lifes that is why i wont do readings on others

I do consider myself a witch to some degree also but one is harmonous with nature I do not belong to a coven as I have not found one in my area
I belong to a group on line and am active in there

But I am sure that we all of our own views and ideals which brings us here I learn from others just like everyone else does I take what i need and leave the rest  

[o sunflower king]

She is an idiot.  

[mechanical kitsy]

Jenny Artucio

She is an idiot.

That's pretty blunt.  

[o sunflower king]

xXx kitsy xXx

Jenny Artucio

She is an idiot.

That's pretty blunt.

sweatdrop
Sorry. just can't stand how she presents herself and Wicca/witchcraft to the younger audience. It's like she's begging the mall goths to come join Wicca, which is obviously SO MUSH BETAR DEN KRISTIANITEEEEE1!111!!!
gonk
I only read "Teen Witch," but that's the perception of her I got. It's like she only uses Wicca to differentiate herself from others.  

[mechanical kitsy]

Jenny Artucio

xXx kitsy xXx

Jenny Artucio

She is an idiot.

That's pretty blunt.

sweatdrop
Sorry. just can't stand how she presents herself and Wicca/witchcraft to the younger audience. It's like she's begging the mall goths to come join Wicca, which is obviously SO MUSH BETAR DEN KRISTIANITEEEEE1!111!!!
gonk
I only read "Teen Witch," but that's the perception of her I got. It's like she only uses Wicca to differentiate herself from others.

yea, she's got the whole, i'm special and you can be too thing goin on.
but she's a different kind of special.
teenage rebellion is not something to encourage especially when we do enough as is, we dont need to add lying and sneaking to the bunch.
that gets us in trouble.  

[Zabi_baby]

i have no problem with her at all. However I feel she is for beginers. I am sorry you all have a problem with her but I dont. I would recomend her to a beginer. However after that I would move on to Raymond buckland. I like his writtings as well as cunninghams and conway.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Did you read the essays I have linked to on the first page?

I don't see what good can come of a beginner reading someone who promotes shoddy scholarship, lying to one's parents, bigotry, condescension, and trying to claim a position of authority that she has no rights to.

Don't get me started on Conway gonk .  

[Morgandria]

Zabora Leonheart

i have no problem with her at all. However I feel she is for beginers. I am sorry you all have a problem with her but I dont. I would recomend her to a beginer. However after that I would move on to Raymond buckland. I like his writtings as well as cunninghams and conway.

I'm confused as to why you think that liars and oathbreakers with poor scholarship are valid sources and good information for beginners.  

[Zabi_baby]

I have read alot on the pros and cons on ravenwolf but the fact is that she incorperates good teachings. I know she says things like real witchs dont use blood in rituals but I know that some do. Its a vary old practice. But would you like a bunch of goth wanna-be wiccans running around cutting themselves not understanding the backlash of such strong magick?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Zabora Leonheart

I have read alot on the pros and cons on ravenwolf but the fact is that she incorperates good teachings.

Please point out these good teachings then.

Quote:

I know she says things like real witchs dont use blood in rituals but I know that some do.

Exactly.
On what authority does she think she can make the claim that "All REAL witches do/don't do this..."? That's silly.

Quote:

Its a vary old practice. But would you like a bunch of goth wanna-be wiccans running around cutting themselves not understanding the backlash of such strong magick?

If they want to learn about more advanced, stronger magic like blood magic then I would want them to look into more historically-based sources. I might even suggest talking to someone who has practiced blood magic successfully. I don't think Ravenwolf falls into either of these categories.  

[Tari_Leralonde]

Violet Song jat Shariff

Don't get me started on Conway gonk .

I'm not sure I understand this comment, really. I've found some of the information Conway gives to be useful. I don't like how much she loves to bash Christians, and she seems to have an obsession with black/white/grey magick...but I think some of what she has said is fairly useful. But then again, I've only read one of her books (Wicca the Complete Craft), so I suppose I don't really know. So can you please elaborate on your comment so I can understand?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Tari_Leralonde

Violet Song jat Shariff

Don't get me started on Conway gonk .

I'm not sure I understand this comment, really. I've found some of the information Conway gives to be useful. I don't like how much she loves to bash Christians, and she seems to have an obsession with black/white/grey magick...but I think some of what she has said is fairly useful. But then again, I've only read one of her books (Wicca the Complete Craft), so I suppose I don't really know. So can you please elaborate on your comment so I can understand?

My issues are mostly with her "Celtic Magick" and her "Norse Magick" books.

For one, "Norse Magick" is basically "Celtic Magick" with the names swapped out and a chapter added on the runes. She takes deities and, like pounding a square peg into a round hole, inserts this and that deity into a loosely Wiccan Lord-and-Lady frame. I mean, she doesn't even try to hide the fact that she has done little to no actual historical research on what she's trying to write a book about. It's just...GUH. ><**  

[Zabi_baby]

Morgandria

Zabora Leonheart

i have no problem with her at all. However I feel she is for beginers. I am sorry you all have a problem with her but I dont. I would recomend her to a beginer. However after that I would move on to Raymond buckland. I like his writtings as well as cunninghams and conway.

I'm confused as to why you think that liars and oathbreakers with poor scholarship are valid sources and good information for beginners.

Ok let me see if I can break this down to as basic a conception as possible. Not to say you are stupid or anything just so you get this on the first round without further comment on the subject by me. I will use one of your essays on this subject...Be warned its gonna get lengthy...

Quote:

pg. 9, par. 2

"The Spiritual Laws represent a code of ethics or morals giving the Crafter a guideline for spiritual living, whether you choose to practice as a Solitary (a Witch alone) or within a group structure. These Spiritual Laws apply to all magickal people, and most magickal individuals incorporate these laws into their group workings and their solitary practices."

All Magickal people? Since when is there a Unified Pagan Ethic, and why wasn't a memo sent out? That's pure tripe. For example, if you are at all familiar with the Asatruar, you know that they follow Norse Paganism with heavy emphasis on honor and the way of the Warrior. How logical is it, then, to assume that they follow the idea of "Harm None" as do so many Neo-Wiccans? A good many non-Neo-Wiccan Witches also do not believe in any such thing as the "Rule of Three" or in limiting their options with a "Harm None" clause. That doesn't mean they prowl the streets at night looking for someone to smite, it simply means they won't hesitate to smite under the right circumstances.

Personally I believe there is enough violence without the aid of some dumbass weilding magick. That isnt to say that they cant do it. Just that they are dumb for hurting others without cause. If you have read anything on Dutch pow-wow (you know that Ravenwolf is big on pow-wow) they would inflict harm on those that have harmed them. However isnt it just better to do prevenative magick instead of hoarding bad karma from inflicting conflict on others?

Quote:

pg. 13, par. 3 & 5


"Real Witches do not...


...hurt people physically, mentally, spiritually, or magickally. Witches have taken an oath to help people, not hurt people. You are not a real Witch if you hurt anybody. ...work black magick - that's those other guys. Real Witches know that whatever you
do, whether in this world or the magickal world, comes back to you three times. If you do good stuff, then you get rewarded. If you do bad stuff, you pay the price - and, let me add, you will pay dearly. Wiccans have a poem that goes: Ever mind the rule of three, what you give out comes back to thee."


Oh please. Just because someone doesn't conform to the ethical standpoint of her personal choice, they aren't a "Real Witch"? As for the "Rule of Three" and "Harm None" see my prior comment.

A friend of mine is a decendent of a black magick practicing witch. It is her grandmother. But again. This is a book for beginners. Why do you want someone running around torturing animals and killing things for the energy of death? Thats what Ana's (my friend) grandmother does. Here I believe she is talking about being a good witch. She doesnt want to incourage people to do wrong.

Quote:

pg. 14, par. 7

"...drink or use blood in any way from animals, themselves, or any person (alive or dead). How you like your steak has nothing to do with the Craft."

**BZZZZT** Blood Magick is quite an old practice, and there are most certainly Traditions of Witchcraft today which do incorporate blood in some spells and ritual. It definitely isn't for everyone, even though the blood is often obtained in a non-violent manner such as harvesting menstrual blood, but it is done nonetheless. Also, this statement most definitely maligns religions such as Santeria and Vodoun, which do utilize blood sacrifice in some instances.

Yes blood magick has been used for a long time but the fact is that it was used to tie spell work to the person preforming it. And we no longer have to do that anymore. We can use nail clippings or a strand of hair...It is just kind of an outdated practice in Wicca. What if someone screwed up a spell and used blood to bind the spell to them? They could hurt themselves or those around them. Thats just not right. If you use blood magick make sure you know what you are doing first.

Quote:

pg. 14, par. 11

"...summon demons. We simply are not that dumb."

Goetia, anyone? While this practice would certainly be more common in groups which lean more heavily towards Ceremonial Magick, the summoning of entities, including demons, to serve or perform a specific purpose is centuries old. To suggest that someone is not a "Real Witch" simply because they happen to do so is ludicrous.

Demons in my oppinion dont exist. We may summon elementals and the elements and what have you but why bring darkness to your work?

Quote:

pg. 15, par. 2

"...use Satanic symbols. The Witches' pentacle, or five-pointed star point-up within a circle, represents the four elements and the human, encompassed by Spirit. The pentacle has nothing to do with Satanism, and Witches get very, very upset with people who match the point-up pentacle with Satanism. Just as Witches do not invert the Christian cross, they don't appreciate it when someone inverts their symbol either."


This is absolutely beyond laughable. I'm nearly at a loss as to where to even begin. Yes, the pentacle is representative of the five Elements (Spirit or Akasha, Air, Fire, Water, and Earth). With the point up, it represents Spirit ascendant above matter. Inverted it represents Spirit descending into matter. For someone who claims to be an initiated Elder of Wicca, she seems completely ignorant of the symbolism used in Second Degree initiation (which is not yet Elder status) by admonishing her readers that inverting the pentacle is a "bad thing". As to the use of the inverted pentacle as a Satanic symbol, it would stand to reason that it is used by them as such specifically because it represents Spirit descending into matter. Since many Satanists, particularly the LaVeyan Satanists, worship the self rather than any literal entity known as Satan, glorifying the practitioner as divinity in flesh and materialism are natural, logical steps with the symbolism. Upright or inverted, the pentacle has no moral "value" beyond that which the observer delegates to it, and what is implied by the context in which it is used.

Personally I dont like the use of the pentacle being used by Satanists. It has nothing to do with the religion. And in one of her later books she does say that they do use an inverted pentacle when going into a second degree of progress in the Black Forest Clan. The use of the pentacle by satanists just helps associate the devil with Wicca and that entity has nothing to do with Wicca in the least.

Quote:

pg. 19, par. 2

"Real Witches do...
...know that the art of magick is our greatest gift. If we work bad magick, Spirit will take our gift(s) from us. If we work positive magick, then that good energy will return to us threefold."

Nice heavy-handed moral manipulation. Oddly reminiscent of "do as I say or you're doomed to burn in Hell."

I dont have a problem with stating that Karma can be a real b***h.

Quote:

pg. 101, par 1

"The textbook definition of 'magick' goes something like this: Using one's will to create form. Magick requires belief in a higher power, and faith in yourself. I've written scads of material on magick, and have read hundreds of books on the topic as well. I've thought about magick, talked about magick, and practiced magick for over twenty years. I've discovered that just as many religions exist in the world, so too many magickal systems present themselves from which the student may choose. I've learned that just as no religion is better than another, so too no magickal system outshines another. And I've learned that a magickal system isn't worth squat unless you plug that system into a religion."


What?!?! Ye Gods, what a mess! First and foremost, the creation of form is rarely a goal in Magickal work. Change, yes, but not form. As Aleister Crowley defined it, Magick is "The Art and Science of creating change in conformity with Will." I've found no better definition to date. Magick requires a belief in a higher power? I guess someone had better inform the Atheist and Agnostic mages I've had the pleasure of conversing with. What I really love though, is the way she states here that no religion and no Magickal system is better than another, then turns around and states that a Magickal system is worthless if not plugged into a religion in the next breath. Simply amazing.

What you dont want your magick to work? Creation of form just means coming to fruit. Bringing about the change you want. For Ravenwolf it isnt just science. It is a religion. Religion requires belief. Just ask anyone with a religion.

Quote:

pg. 102, par. 1

"Whether you practice folk magick or ceremonial magick, both systems used in a positive way have the following in common: All magick contains prayer. All magick incorporates divinity. All magick concentrates on positive change."


All magick most certainly does not incorporate prayer, as any practitioner of over twenty years should well know. Prayer is the petitioning of a deity to cause something to occur. In Magick, the caster is working to cause that change themself. They may certainly incorporate prayer to petition a deity to aid in reaching the desired outcome of the spell, but that is not necessary.

How is spell work not a form of prayer? Are you not using tools to help you gain something? Using your focused energy to create change is prayer. It may just not be your deffinition of prayer.

Quote:

pg. 104, par. 3

"Every magickal application, whether we are talking about spellwork, ritual, drumming, singing, et cetera, involves prayer - making a request to Spirit, honoring Spirit, or celebrating God all involve divinity. Every act of magick begins with a desire...and a prayer."


See above.

Yeah see my other statement.

Quote:

pg. 106, par. 2

"To evoke means to bring forth from within ourselves an energy or force outward into the universe."


She says she's been practicing Magick for over twenty years, and yet she doesn't even know what evocation is within a Magickal paradigm.

Evoke means within. Invoke means without. To bring out magick from you is evoke. To bring in the power of the gods is to invoke.

Quote:

pg. 130, par. 6


"The Dark Side - Witches Don't Go There

Witches do not work magick to harm others and we know that no real power lies in evil."


Right. That's why there are so many versions of curse, binding, and smiting, many of which have been around a good deal longer than her supposed twenty years of practice. I suppose that's also why the saying "A witch who can't harm can't heal" came about.

True on this one. But again why cause chaos in this world?


So there ya have it. Whats wrong with this is that what we have here are nothing but oppinions both on my side and on the side of the person who wrote the problem with silver ravenwolf. Untill you die and go meet divinity and ask "Hey was I right in saying this or doing that?" All we have are oppinions and here is mine. I have learned much from silver ravenwolf and I have never had a problem with my magick but one time. And that was my own fault for making my petition to tightly knit. As opposed to letting some slack hang for Spirit to bring about manifestation.

As for the part about me supporting a liar and oathbreaker with poor scholarship are valid sources and good information, thats your oppinion. And as for not doing the reserch yourself on her and taking my word for it, that makes you a sheep that needs to be herded and cared for. Instead of the lion who hunts its prey and has the instict to survive.

This is not to say anyone on here is a Sheep. Just trying to make a point.