do you think you would survive?

[Ich esse dich]

Haratio TaFotter

robthedude

Succubus_Lady

You'd shoot at Outcast and Steel patrols? I'm assuming you imagine you'd have acquired heavy armour and significantly powerful weaponry before then?

As you'll know if you talk to Lyon's pride, the brotherhood trains its' own sharpshooters, and they'll probably have the best kit around. Since the outcasts are Steel themselves, I can't imagine they'd be any different.

Keeping in minds as well that the Outcasts collect technology. I believe that if an Outcast patrol had found a Gatling Laser out in the wastes, they wouldn't think twice before using it to defend themselves.

Plus, both of them tend to travel in groups of 3.

Not just groups of three, but usually carrying big guns. I've killed a lot of both in the game, and the smallest thing I see on any of them is a laser rifle.

As for taking them from a distance, I would say that would be more or less unlikey. Looking at the armor of the Brotherhood, I would say none of the sniping weapons in the game (save the Gauss, but since there's only one in the C.W., I'd say it doesn't even really factor in) would have a powerful enough round to pierce the armor. A .308 might have enough velocity and weight to hit the helmet with enough force to addle the wearer, though you would still have another one or two to deal with.

As for the whole "I would survive because I can make bombs" defense, I would say that is valid, while at the same time not for similar reasons. The killing force of an explosion is generated more from the fragmentation than the explosion itself. Therefore, explosives would be effective against only certain targets, the ones with little to no armor. The get through something like power armor, you would need something that would produce some pretty big shrapnel to get through it. Some weaker areas (say the joints) could be exposed to some damage via smaller shrapnel, but there's pretty much, well, everything else that's protected.

Not to mention the robots too.
If a security robot shoots a missile at the ground near you, you'll get wounded pretty bad without good armor, like power armor, then the Outcasts can leave you to die or walk up and finish you off and last time I checked, they didn't care much for the Wasteland's citizens. I doubt they'd be merciful.

And added the smallest thing they carry is laser rifles and gatling laser thing, they're lasers. They'll probably burn people's skin with a good shot.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

I don't think you got the points Tashi, Haratio and Succubus, You get the element of surprise on your side and they panic, not everybody is suited for life in the wasteland. That isn't to say I am perfect, but assuming I can get to a school, and get lemons, I could make a relatively powerful bomb, enough to break through power armor, and more than enough to ruin the supports of a building. Fulminate of mercury, such fantastic stuff.  

[Haratio TaFotter]

legendary detective Lawli

I don't think you got the points Tashi, Haratio and Succubus, You get the element of surprise on your side and they panic, not everybody is suited for life in the wasteland. That isn't to say I am perfect, but assuming I can get to a school, and get lemons, I could make a relatively powerful bomb, enough to break through power armor, and more than enough to ruin the supports of a building. Fulminate of mercury, such fantastic stuff.

Hmmmm.....and how exactly to plan to have a large enough supply of this fulminate of mercury to single handedly take out the Brotherhood of Steel and destroy buildings? Hell, you could take the primers out of every bullet you find, but I'm not convinced you can find enough and make an ignition system that doesn't involve you smashing said primers with a hammer, and still do all the things you claim you can do.

Not to mention I still think your "catch them by surprise" is still not a great tactic. But I guess since I mentioned it, I'll go ahead and state my reasons why I'm not convinced. You say that not everyone is suited for life in the Wasteland, and once again, this applies in some situations more than others. Your surprise tactics may give you the upper hand against some creatures and Raiders, but I doubt you will have much of an effect against Enclave, Brotherood Knights, or Outcasts, all of whom have military training!  

[Roane Farhall]

Like he said, all the power armor wearing super forces have had at least some degree of military training. They know what the wasteland can throw, and they're not afraid of it. When the Behemoth burst in to the GNR courtyard, did the Brotherhood soldiers turn around and run the way they came? That thing had the element of surprise, a giant metal club, enough force behind a single swipe to send them flying, and they still stood and fought it.

Now tell me how they're going to be afraid of a human with some bombs? If you do manage to take out a group, keep in mind that in real life when guns get hit with explosive force, they tend to break and/or jam. And if that explosive can eat through power armor, then forget taking the armor off of them, because it wont be useful with holes in it. Plus, if it can eat through power armor, then forget about the stuff they're carrying. That will all be useless by then. Really, you would have achieved nothing by killing them with explosives except for showing that you can. But that wont save you from the ghoul that sneaks up on you while you're asleep.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

robthedude

Like he said, all the power armor wearing super forces have had at least some degree of military training. They know what the wasteland can throw, and they're not afraid of it. When the Behemoth burst in to the GNR courtyard, did the Brotherhood soldiers turn around and run the way they came? That thing had the element of surprise, a giant metal club, enough force behind a single swipe to send them flying, and they still stood and fought it.

Now tell me how they're going to be afraid of a human with some bombs? If you do manage to take out a group, keep in mind that in real life when guns get hit with explosive force, they tend to break and/or jam. And if that explosive can eat through power armor, then forget taking the armor off of them, because it wont be useful with holes in it. Plus, if it can eat through power armor, then forget about the stuff they're carrying. That will all be useless by then. Really, you would have achieved nothing by killing them with explosives except for showing that you can. But that wont save you from the ghoul that sneaks up on you while you're asleep.

@Haratio: I didn't say I was going to take out the brotherhood, just a patrol, maybe two.

@Rob: That didn't surprise them totally, Knight Vargas saw it cfoming and warned Reddin, however it was too late for her. And as for the argument about the bombs eating their armor, it wasn't their armor I wanted, I wouldn't be trained in how to use the armor, I wanted their weapons.  

[Roane Farhall]

legendary detective Lawli

robthedude

Like he said, all the power armor wearing super forces have had at least some degree of military training. They know what the wasteland can throw, and they're not afraid of it. When the Behemoth burst in to the GNR courtyard, did the Brotherhood soldiers turn around and run the way they came? That thing had the element of surprise, a giant metal club, enough force behind a single swipe to send them flying, and they still stood and fought it.

Now tell me how they're going to be afraid of a human with some bombs? If you do manage to take out a group, keep in mind that in real life when guns get hit with explosive force, they tend to break and/or jam. And if that explosive can eat through power armor, then forget taking the armor off of them, because it wont be useful with holes in it. Plus, if it can eat through power armor, then forget about the stuff they're carrying. That will all be useless by then. Really, you would have achieved nothing by killing them with explosives except for showing that you can. But that wont save you from the ghoul that sneaks up on you while you're asleep.

@Haratio: I didn't say I was going to take out the brotherhood, just a patrol, maybe two.

@Rob: That didn't surprise them totally, Knight Vargas saw it cfoming and warned Reddin, however it was too late for her. And as for the argument about the bombs eating their armor, it wasn't their armor I wanted, I wouldn't be trained in how to use the armor, I wanted their weapons.

Again, if a weapon goes through a cloud of smoke and shrapnel, flying through dust and everything, then landing on the softened dirt of the ground, it is not going to be very useful to you unless you know how to take it apart, clean it out, and put it back together perfectly.

Besides, raiders have weapons. If you wanted a weapon, it would be easier killing the people who are literally wearing sheet metal over 25% of their body, and nothing more than cloth over the rest. Plus, the raiders will already shoot on sight. Do you really want to get on the kill list of two well established armies that would rather leave you alone?

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that a society advanced enough to have powered armor suits and laser throwing weapons wouldn't be able to have recording devices in the helmets of their soldiers.

Also: The whole element of surprise thing? They heard a noise. Behemoths are rare in the wasteland, even if you see one coming it has the element of surprise. Then it has the element of straight up fear on it's side. Not to mention the element of it-will-kill-you-instantly.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

In e collection brotherhood holotags quest they tell you they do that bec ause they have no way of finding out who is dead and who isn't, like the outcasts don't know what happened to Linden.

As for the raiders, come on, lets face facts, they tend to travel in larger groups, so they are less formidable in a realistic setting.

2-3 brotherhood soldiers vs 1 bomb, simple.

3-10 raiders vs 1 bomb and me shooting a BB gun, bugger.

And many things can kill you instantly, not just a behemoth. Are you saying there is less fear in having a sawn off shotgun rammed up your nose than there is in a behemoth running towards you?  

[Roane Farhall]

Quite frankly, yes. If a shotgun is rammed up your nose, you know you're dead, you give up hope. What spawns fear is knowing that there is a chance, no matter how slight, that you can survive. the whole essence of why Romero zombies freaked the world out. You could see it coming, you know how to kill it, but you also know that it is 10 times easier for it to kill you. If a shotgun is shoved up your nose, you know you're dead. There's no chance at that point, you're going to die, just accept it.

Plus, I didn't exactly mean recording devices sending things back to base. When they get the holotags, they figure out who the person was and write what they did. How do they know what they did?

Back to your bombs you keep bringing up. I guess the first fatal flaw was: How many fruits have you seen in the wasteland? All that stuff has been dead for upwards of 200 years by the time Fallout 3 comes in to play, I seriously doubt you'll find your lemons.

That aside: All bombs have some sort of timed detonation. By the time you see it, you can move. If a group of three fairly spread out people saw something flying at them, I think that at least one could easily survive.

You bring up the raiders in packs? Sure, they travel in groups, but their weapons are grossly innacturate, their armor sucks, and they have bad aim on top of that. I'd rather take 10 people who just found guns off the street and are going to shoot me on sight anyways then a group of 3 people with military training who can literally turn you in to dust with their guns.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

Pretty much anything with citric acid could bne used to create the bombs.

I'd personally rather face 3 soldiers than ten conscripts. (Examples sake.)

Merc ury fulminate is a stress release bomb, which is why you have to habdle it carefully, you drop it and it detonates. It has no timer, and because it is a stress release bomb, it is rtegularly used as a trigger inmuch larger bombs.  

[Haratio TaFotter]

legendary detective Lawli

Pretty much anything with citric acid could bne used to create the bombs.

I'd personally rather face 3 soldiers than ten conscripts. (Examples sake.)

Merc ury fulminate is a stress release bomb, which is why you have to habdle it carefully, you drop it and it detonates. It has no timer, and because it is a stress release bomb, it is rtegularly used as a trigger inmuch larger bombs.

But once again, where are you going to find said citric acid? I thought your plan was full of holes before, but the long you argue it, the more holes appear.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

Citric acid is kept in 250ml containers within british schools science department, and where I am the school has a storage cupboard, and I know where the key is.  

[Ich esse dich]

Buildings would be either completely destoryed or almost destoryed. So you might have to clear hallways of heavy rumble(if you can get in) to find a small key, which might be moved from its spot and then find the cupboard that might be crushed by more rubble.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

*cough* America was bombed, not Britain. Which makes me look back on my argument and think, I know nothing.

I don't know how Britain would wind up after that...  

[Haratio TaFotter]

legendary detective Lawli

*cough* America was bombed, not Britain. Which makes me look back on my argument and think, I know nothing.

I don't know how Britain would wind up after that...

Wait a minute, so this whole time, you've been talking about making bombs for a survival scenario the you wouldn't even be exposed to?

As for how Britain would wind up, you guys would probably wind up with radiation somewhere along the line.  

[legendary thiefLawli]

We wouldn't be as seriously ******** as america though, you guys would get onwed in that situation. In britain the worst we would get (i suspect) Would be at the most, ten thousand ghouls.