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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:30 pm
divineseraph spottystripes but rape rate is HIGH though!! I assure you, in America, the people who rape aren't getting their ideas from greek sculpture. Rapists usually have mental complexes where harming others for personal gain is acceptable. It's not because they saw a picture of a nude model and went berserk with lust. It's because they are, basically, insane. And no, the world does not need a dictator. The world needs some common sense. okay I semi understand where your coming from, but honestly I would be nice if you would open your mind to why we think this. Now nudity is related to sexual content in today's society right. And pretty much throughout history having a nice body is related to sexuality and you can't deny that. So have one covered shows first of all a mannered look. If one is nude most think that you are either drunk (no offense but you know people think that) or have no self respect. So we know that God wants you to not give out sexual signals to others b/c they can think wrongly of you. And in today's society nudity is related to sexual content thus going around naked is against Islamic beliefs. The thing is God told us to cover b/c he knows the mind of his people. sorry if i didn't explain well, but it would be appreciated of all of yall would stop using inappropriate language in a semi-educated discussion. Thanks biggrin
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:31 pm
spottystripes divineseraph He wears no clothing, not even undergarments, when weather permits. You are disgusted because your mind is closed. His nudity doesn't hurt you or anyone/anything else, and if you allow a reality to cause you harm, then that is a weakness. It is not his fault, nor God's, that you are too weak to accept the reality of His creation without perverting it or making it out to be evil. astaghfirullah!! sad u r so disgusting, so is your father, asthaghfirullah!! gonk *goes to puke* Astaghfirullah! We have no right in calling anyone disgusting or even judging them in any manner. I'm sorry sister but saying such things is a bad image of Islam. neutral
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:11 am
Don't talk about image!
She did something wrong, soo say that instead. Who cares about image?
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:36 pm
0_o___V divineseraph spottystripes but rape rate is HIGH though!! I assure you, in America, the people who rape aren't getting their ideas from greek sculpture. Rapists usually have mental complexes where harming others for personal gain is acceptable. It's not because they saw a picture of a nude model and went berserk with lust. It's because they are, basically, insane. And no, the world does not need a dictator. The world needs some common sense. okay I semi understand where your coming from, but honestly I would be nice if you would open your mind to why we think this. Now nudity is related to sexual content in today's society right. And pretty much throughout history having a nice body is related to sexuality and you can't deny that. So have one covered shows first of all a mannered look. If one is nude most think that you are either drunk (no offense but you know people think that) or have no self respect. So we know that God wants you to not give out sexual signals to others b/c they can think wrongly of you. And in today's society nudity is related to sexual content thus going around naked is against Islamic beliefs. The thing is God told us to cover b/c he knows the mind of his people. sorry if i didn't explain well, but it would be appreciated of all of yall would stop using inappropriate language in a semi-educated discussion. Thanks biggrin But nudity is NOT an instant erection for men, nor does it necessarily lead to sex, let alone premarital sex or adultery. There are many people with societies with women who have their breasts or genitals exposed, and people don't go freaking out over it. It's a subjective issue, and how it affects people is dependent on the observer. Nudity only leads to sin if YOU are the sinner who would act as such, or if you associate the neutral with the extreme. If the problem is that we see the body as sexual, then shouldn't we change OURSELVES? Shouldn't we make it so that people don't freak out over nudity, or even more disturbingly, eye contact? Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the problem rather than make it worse by pointing it out through oppressive action?
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:26 pm
divineseraph 0_o___V divineseraph spottystripes but rape rate is HIGH though!! I assure you, in America, the people who rape aren't getting their ideas from greek sculpture. Rapists usually have mental complexes where harming others for personal gain is acceptable. It's not because they saw a picture of a nude model and went berserk with lust. It's because they are, basically, insane. And no, the world does not need a dictator. The world needs some common sense. okay I semi understand where your coming from, but honestly I would be nice if you would open your mind to why we think this. Now nudity is related to sexual content in today's society right. And pretty much throughout history having a nice body is related to sexuality and you can't deny that. So have one covered shows first of all a mannered look. If one is nude most think that you are either drunk (no offense but you know people think that) or have no self respect. So we know that God wants you to not give out sexual signals to others b/c they can think wrongly of you. And in today's society nudity is related to sexual content thus going around naked is against Islamic beliefs. The thing is God told us to cover b/c he knows the mind of his people. sorry if i didn't explain well, but it would be appreciated of all of yall would stop using inappropriate language in a semi-educated discussion. Thanks biggrin But nudity is NOT an instant erection for men, nor does it necessarily lead to sex, let alone premarital sex or adultery. There are many people with societies with women who have their breasts or genitals exposed, and people don't go freaking out over it. It's a subjective issue, and how it affects people is dependent on the observer. Nudity only leads to sin if YOU are the sinner who would act as such, or if you associate the neutral with the extreme. If the problem is that we see the body as sexual, then shouldn't we change OURSELVES? Shouldn't we make it so that people don't freak out over nudity, or even more disturbingly, eye contact? Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the problem rather than make it worse by pointing it out through oppressive action? Well yes not all men go crazy when they see nudity but many do and thus we have to protect ourselves from those kind of perverted people. Yes, your right there are many places where women have their breasts exposed and such, but at the same time those areas have a lot of rapes going on and many other horrid activities b/c they are exactly civil. Most civilized places you will find well clothed people...and and in those kind of areas hanging breast isn't excepted and is usually thought of in sexual manner... and most of us live in those areas, yes? Islam is a very compromising religion... and the only reason it has this rule is to protect us from people even thinking badly about you... and honestly you expect people to not be attracted to the body? How realistic is that? And the whole concept of covering is because we can't change every person's mind of how they should react to nudity and how the shouldn't so thus we have to protect ourselves instead so they wouldn't look at you in such a manner... and how does it make it worse may I ask? We can't change every person's mind and honestly it is human nature to be physically attracted some people and most people can't help it... so how do you expect them to change? (I mean seriously if I see a guy who is nicely built I'll be like wow that guy is fine... so how can you change that for everyone?)
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Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:28 pm
The_Pathan Don't talk about image! She did something wrong, soo say that instead. Who cares about image? umm why shouldn't I talk about image? As a community we have to keep a good image so we have more people interested in it... if we give out a bad image than people will not be willing to understand it... Zaaki having a good image is important... weather you like it or not, people judge quite a bit on first impressions...
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:20 am
Think about Allah, not other people.
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:08 am
0_o___V divineseraph 0_o___V divineseraph spottystripes but rape rate is HIGH though!! I assure you, in America, the people who rape aren't getting their ideas from greek sculpture. Rapists usually have mental complexes where harming others for personal gain is acceptable. It's not because they saw a picture of a nude model and went berserk with lust. It's because they are, basically, insane. And no, the world does not need a dictator. The world needs some common sense. okay I semi understand where your coming from, but honestly I would be nice if you would open your mind to why we think this. Now nudity is related to sexual content in today's society right. And pretty much throughout history having a nice body is related to sexuality and you can't deny that. So have one covered shows first of all a mannered look. If one is nude most think that you are either drunk (no offense but you know people think that) or have no self respect. So we know that God wants you to not give out sexual signals to others b/c they can think wrongly of you. And in today's society nudity is related to sexual content thus going around naked is against Islamic beliefs. The thing is God told us to cover b/c he knows the mind of his people. sorry if i didn't explain well, but it would be appreciated of all of yall would stop using inappropriate language in a semi-educated discussion. Thanks biggrin But nudity is NOT an instant erection for men, nor does it necessarily lead to sex, let alone premarital sex or adultery. There are many people with societies with women who have their breasts or genitals exposed, and people don't go freaking out over it. It's a subjective issue, and how it affects people is dependent on the observer. Nudity only leads to sin if YOU are the sinner who would act as such, or if you associate the neutral with the extreme. If the problem is that we see the body as sexual, then shouldn't we change OURSELVES? Shouldn't we make it so that people don't freak out over nudity, or even more disturbingly, eye contact? Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the problem rather than make it worse by pointing it out through oppressive action? Well yes not all men go crazy when they see nudity but many do and thus we have to protect ourselves from those kind of perverted people. Yes, your right there are many places where women have their breasts exposed and such, but at the same time those areas have a lot of rapes going on and many other horrid activities b/c they are exactly civil. Most civilized places you will find well clothed people...and and in those kind of areas hanging breast isn't excepted and is usually thought of in sexual manner... and most of us live in those areas, yes? Islam is a very compromising religion... and the only reason it has this rule is to protect us from people even thinking badly about you... and honestly you expect people to not be attracted to the body? How realistic is that? And the whole concept of covering is because we can't change every person's mind of how they should react to nudity and how the shouldn't so thus we have to protect ourselves instead so they wouldn't look at you in such a manner... and how does it make it worse may I ask? We can't change every person's mind and honestly it is human nature to be physically attracted some people and most people can't help it... so how do you expect them to change? (I mean seriously if I see a guy who is nicely built I'll be like wow that guy is fine... so how can you change that for everyone?) If we allow them to change the rules so that doing something that may potentially goad them is illegal, who really wins? Justice means punishing those who commit crimes, not taking freedom from the people who would be hurt by said crimes in a misguided attempt to prevent it. You should not think badly of someone for what they wear. Change the people so that they don't sin, rather than punish everyone who does anything that may eventually potentially lead to a crime. There is a difference between thought and action. There is also a difference between thought types. There's a difference between "Hey, look at that" and "I'm going to ******** her wether she wants it or not". there is nothing wrong with physical attraction, so long as people do not act upon it as rape. And no, nudity would not send a normal person into a rapist frenzy- That is an attitude bred by extreme anti-sexuality propaganda that turns sex and natural acts into such a taboo that even slight neutral exposure creates undue, non-normal reactions. Again, there is a difference between being attracted to someone and raping them. There is nothing wrong with physical attraction, and rape isn't made any more easy or likely by NOT wearing oppressive clothing.
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:22 pm
The_Pathan Think about Allah, not other people. Yes, but as believers of Allah we have the responsibility of spreading this belief... and we will not spread it if we don't give out the true image of Islam (which is a good image...yes?) So as Muslims we have to represent Islam to the rest of the world in a positive manner b/c we have duty of humanity as much as to ourselves...
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:40 pm
divineseraph 0_o___V divineseraph 0_o___V divineseraph spottystripes but rape rate is HIGH though!! I assure you, in America, the people who rape aren't getting their ideas from greek sculpture. Rapists usually have mental complexes where harming others for personal gain is acceptable. It's not because they saw a picture of a nude model and went berserk with lust. It's because they are, basically, insane. And no, the world does not need a dictator. The world needs some common sense. okay I semi understand where your coming from, but honestly I would be nice if you would open your mind to why we think this. Now nudity is related to sexual content in today's society right. And pretty much throughout history having a nice body is related to sexuality and you can't deny that. So have one covered shows first of all a mannered look. If one is nude most think that you are either drunk (no offense but you know people think that) or have no self respect. So we know that God wants you to not give out sexual signals to others b/c they can think wrongly of you. And in today's society nudity is related to sexual content thus going around naked is against Islamic beliefs. The thing is God told us to cover b/c he knows the mind of his people. sorry if i didn't explain well, but it would be appreciated of all of yall would stop using inappropriate language in a semi-educated discussion. Thanks biggrin But nudity is NOT an instant erection for men, nor does it necessarily lead to sex, let alone premarital sex or adultery. There are many people with societies with women who have their breasts or genitals exposed, and people don't go freaking out over it. It's a subjective issue, and how it affects people is dependent on the observer. Nudity only leads to sin if YOU are the sinner who would act as such, or if you associate the neutral with the extreme. If the problem is that we see the body as sexual, then shouldn't we change OURSELVES? Shouldn't we make it so that people don't freak out over nudity, or even more disturbingly, eye contact? Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the problem rather than make it worse by pointing it out through oppressive action? Well yes not all men go crazy when they see nudity but many do and thus we have to protect ourselves from those kind of perverted people. Yes, your right there are many places where women have their breasts exposed and such, but at the same time those areas have a lot of rapes going on and many other horrid activities b/c they are exactly civil. Most civilized places you will find well clothed people...and and in those kind of areas hanging breast isn't excepted and is usually thought of in sexual manner... and most of us live in those areas, yes? Islam is a very compromising religion... and the only reason it has this rule is to protect us from people even thinking badly about you... and honestly you expect people to not be attracted to the body? How realistic is that? And the whole concept of covering is because we can't change every person's mind of how they should react to nudity and how the shouldn't so thus we have to protect ourselves instead so they wouldn't look at you in such a manner... and how does it make it worse may I ask? We can't change every person's mind and honestly it is human nature to be physically attracted some people and most people can't help it... so how do you expect them to change? (I mean seriously if I see a guy who is nicely built I'll be like wow that guy is fine... so how can you change that for everyone?) If we allow them to change the rules so that doing something that may potentially goad them is illegal, who really wins? Justice means punishing those who commit crimes, not taking freedom from the people who would be hurt by said crimes in a misguided attempt to prevent it. You should not think badly of someone for what they wear. Change the people so that they don't sin, rather than punish everyone who does anything that may eventually potentially lead to a crime. There is a difference between thought and action. There is also a difference between thought types. There's a difference between "Hey, look at that" and "I'm going to ******** her wether she wants it or not". there is nothing wrong with physical attraction, so long as people do not act upon it as rape. And no, nudity would not send a normal person into a rapist frenzy- That is an attitude bred by extreme anti-sexuality propaganda that turns sex and natural acts into such a taboo that even slight neutral exposure creates undue, non-normal reactions. Again, there is a difference between being attracted to someone and raping them. There is nothing wrong with physical attraction, and rape isn't made any more easy or likely by NOT wearing oppressive clothing. Okay yes there is an obvious difference between thought and action.. and thought types... and I agreed with you on that... I'm not saying a person will go wanna rape a girl as soon as he sees her body or anything, but I'm say that some people will look at her in a perverted way... And honestly most women don't like being thought of in such perverted ways (it is disrespecting...) and yes I know nudity will not make someone go crazy rapist, but it will strong arouse some people... (note I said some not all...b/c i know all people aren't the same...) but the aroused person will most probably think of the nude person in dirty was... And honestly we don't really know if rape isn't made any more easy or likely by NOT wearing oppressive clothing since we have not tried here... but I agree the raping is dependent on the person who is doing the raping not the one who is being raped... but you must understand if a girl with a short skirt and a belly shirt pass by a "bad" group of guys she will have more of a chance being disrespected for her body than a fully covered girl walking by... So this whole covering is to protect us from looking at us in any wrong way... we want people to be attracted to us for who we are not our physical body or what we look like... and also I don't find covering oppressive or lose of freedom... that is just an opinion... honestly when I began wearing a scarf I felt more confident, and honestly I believe that I have become a better person too... since I know that I am representing Islam when I go out... I know that I must represent the true Islam... (well ya know the true Islam to me...) so I make my choices very carefully and think of my consequences before most acts... so honestly I think finding the whole covering concept oppressive or lose of freedom is just your way of thinking... not exactly a fact b/c I find it to be something completely different...
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:54 am
And women don't NEED to walk around naked. They can wear as much or as little as they like and not be an abomination to God. I am not promoting forcing women to wear nothing, but that freedom should be available. And so with it should be the freedom to wear the Hajib or a suit of iron armor or fifty pounds of steak. That doesn't mean that it would be sensible, or that everyone would have to respect outlandish dress. But it is not a sin to express oneself through clothing or lack thereof.
If a person walks around naked and arouses someone, that's not really a problem. She can choose not to walk around naked if she doesn't want to bear that risk. But again, you are female, correct? Hell, even if you're male. I can almost guarantee that you unintentionally arouse many people every day- There are fetishes for literally everything- Eating, walking, driving a car, swallowing, burping, passing wind, sneezing, coughing, chewing gum. If you've ever done any of that in public, or even not in public, you may have aroused someone.
No, covering is not a loss of freedom. Being forced to cover is.
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:21 am
divineseraph And women don't NEED to walk around naked. They can wear as much or as little as they like and not be an abomination to God. I am not promoting forcing women to wear nothing, but that freedom should be available. And so with it should be the freedom to wear the Hajib or a suit of iron armor or fifty pounds of steak. That doesn't mean that it would be sensible, or that everyone would have to respect outlandish dress. But it is not a sin to express oneself through clothing or lack thereof. If a person walks around naked and arouses someone, that's not really a problem. She can choose not to walk around naked if she doesn't want to bear that risk. But again, you are female, correct? Hell, even if you're male. I can almost guarantee that you unintentionally arouse many people every day- There are fetishes for literally everything- Eating, walking, driving a car, swallowing, burping, passing wind, sneezing, coughing, chewing gum. If you've ever done any of that in public, or even not in public, you may have aroused someone. No, covering is not a loss of freedom. Being forced to cover is. Yes, you're right forcing to do anything is loss of freedom, but the thing is in Islam ( i mean the true Islam... not this bs these days... in the so called Muslim countries.... b/c believe me I am disgusted by it as much as you... or maybe even more b/c they are putting my religion into it...) but in true Islam no one has any right to force another.... yes there are guide lines, but no one has a right to force it on another... by human nature we must make our own choices.. and that's how God made us, thus he expected his humans to make their own choices... Yes Islamicly it is prefered to cover oneself b/c the body is the most common way ppl get aroused... but at the end we do have that right to choose... for example my mother nor father even mentioned the hajab to me.... just one day I was like hmm... okay lets try this thing... and honestly i was proud to wear it... so yes at the end it should be completely the person's choice and Islamicly that is how it is... oh and your right... many things can arouse a person... but you can do so much as you said before... so the most common way ppl are aroused is by the body no doubt... so covering that would be a good a idea... it is something that can be helped... so yea...
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:27 am
its not haraam its just maqrooh
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:31 am
0_o___V divineseraph And women don't NEED to walk around naked. They can wear as much or as little as they like and not be an abomination to God. I am not promoting forcing women to wear nothing, but that freedom should be available. And so with it should be the freedom to wear the Hajib or a suit of iron armor or fifty pounds of steak. That doesn't mean that it would be sensible, or that everyone would have to respect outlandish dress. But it is not a sin to express oneself through clothing or lack thereof. If a person walks around naked and arouses someone, that's not really a problem. She can choose not to walk around naked if she doesn't want to bear that risk. But again, you are female, correct? Hell, even if you're male. I can almost guarantee that you unintentionally arouse many people every day- There are fetishes for literally everything- Eating, walking, driving a car, swallowing, burping, passing wind, sneezing, coughing, chewing gum. If you've ever done any of that in public, or even not in public, you may have aroused someone. No, covering is not a loss of freedom. Being forced to cover is. Yes, you're right forcing to do anything is loss of freedom, but the thing is in Islam ( i mean the true Islam... not this bs these days... in the so called Muslim countries.... b/c believe me I am disgusted by it as much as you... or maybe even more b/c they are putting my religion into it...) but in true Islam no one has any right to force another.... yes there are guide lines, but no one has a right to force it on another... by human nature we must make our own choices.. and that's how God made us, thus he expected his humans to make their own choices... Yes Islamicly it is prefered to cover oneself b/c the body is the most common way ppl get aroused... but at the end we do have that right to choose... for example my mother nor father even mentioned the hajab to me.... just one day I was like hmm... okay lets try this thing... and honestly i was proud to wear it... so yes at the end it should be completely the person's choice and Islamicly that is how it is... oh and your right... many things can arouse a person... but you can do so much as you said before... so the most common way ppl are aroused is by the body no doubt... so covering that would be a good a idea... it is something that can be helped... so yea... So if it's a choice, and God doesn't care either way, why are you calling it Islamic Law? If it is irrelevant, doesn't that say something about Islam, namely that it has many pointless and arbitrary rules that don't even apply to God? And I am not bashing Islam alone, I say the same thing about the arbitrary laws of Judaism and Christianity and Wicca.
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:11 am
dark__sunshin Alsalam Alaykum!~
Answered by Shiekh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî, former professor at al-Imâm University in Riyadh
The ruling regarding image making needs to be addressed in detail:
Drawing pictures by hand of people and animals is unlawful. This is indicated by clear and unambiguous textual evidence. Ibn `Abbâs relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever makes an image in this world, he will be requested to breathe life into it on the Day of Resurrection, but he will not be able to do it.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Mulsim]
Ibn Mas`ûd also relates that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: “The severest of penalties on the Day of Resurrection will be given to image makers” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Mulsim].
Making statues of animals and people is the most unlawful aspect of image making, and it deserves the severest punishment from Allah. Drawing pictures comes second.
However, the following cases are exempted from this ruling:
1. Images used by children for playing and for learning are lawful. `Aishah said: “I used to play with dolls in front of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) with my friends …” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Mulsim] as these are a means for education and constructive play and are free from the danger of being venerated.
2. Photography does not come under the category of forbidden image making, since there are many differences between photographs and hand-rendered images. It is lawful because it is an act of capturing a reflection like the reflection of an image on a mirror. Most importantly, the problem of human emulation of the creative process is not as it is with painting and sculpture.
And Allah knows best.
Yes, I defintely believe that photography isn't forbidden. Most scholars mistake it with art. It captures a mirror object. Same with video cameras. However, it is forbidden to capture pics of naked people and take pornographic pictures.... A woman who wears purdah (hijab) must not reveal pics of her relaxed self in front of men.
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