Where do you see America in the next 10 years?

[TammiGirl]

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.  

[Lord Izaran]

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.

Hehe...do you live in PA?

Carlisle PA

5,000 jobs for Bethlehem Steel Co.
5,000 jobs GONE when the company was run bankrupt by the USW.

MY HOMETOWN!

Part of why Detroit is on he rocks is because there is a different mechanic to how Unions control the city. Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, there are special sanctions within the Commonwealth Assembly that limit the connections between Union and Office.

To strengthen that link, in 2009 a bill was introduced to the Commonwealth Assembly called the Open Workforce Initiative. Basically, the Union hold on City Hall in Pitt will DIE if this passes due to it making PA a Right to Work state.

Also consider the nature of the Auto Industry. The job market is extremely fluctuate. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates because...oh my...look at the number of jobs that DIDN'T get made as PROMISED by the takeover of GM and Chrysler!

Got an answer to that?  

[TammiGirl]

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.

Hehe...do you live in PA?

Carlisle PA

5,000 jobs for Bethlehem Steel Co.
5,000 jobs GONE when the company was run bankrupt by the USW.

MY HOMETOWN!

Part of why Detroit is on he rocks is because there is a different mechanic to how Unions control the city. Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, there are special sanctions within the Commonwealth Assembly that limit the connections between Union and Office.

To strengthen that link, in 2009 a bill was introduced to the Commonwealth Assembly called the Open Workforce Initiative. Basically, the Union hold on City Hall in Pitt will DIE if this passes due to it making PA a Right to Work state.

Also consider the nature of the Auto Industry. The job market is extremely fluctuate. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates because...oh my...look at the number of jobs that DIDN'T get made as PROMISED by the takeover of GM and Chrysler!

Got an answer to that?

I live in PA about as much as you live in Detroit. If you're going to speak authoritatively on a place you don't live, so will I.

You've provided nothing specific as to how any controls bar union influence on office in Pitt than they would in Detroit. You've made only vague allusions and I can't answer to vague allusions. Sufficed to say, you seem to be trying to play both sides of coin here. You want to float the specter that Pittsburgh is as bad off by citing a factory closure (which you fail to link to USW, you just make the blanket claim that it was), but then immediately backtrack and try to suggest that special anti-union protections exist. Then you try and suggest that the influence indeed exists, but is about to be stamped out. That sort of incoherent backtracking is usually a case of someone caught on their own BS without real clear thoughts as to how to save their argument.

Now, remember, we've already moved the goal posts once here. The original position was liberal rule over cities. When it was pointed out that plenty of other cities have had long, unbroken Democratic governance for decades, the additional hurdle of "liberals AND unions" was added. Now you're moving the goalposts again to throw in "liberals AND unions AND no laws to prevent union influence in government." Do I have an answer to it? Does it really matter? You'll just drag the goalposts again and again and again no matter how many times you're shot down. So I'll ask you this, what would it take to convince you that Democratic governance and large organized unions have nothing to do with the current disposition of Detroit?  

[Lord Bitememan]

Okay, I have to suspend my role as moderator in this threat at the moment and speak up as the only actual resident of Detroit on this board. None of you are right. Detroit is the way it is today because of racial politics, both self-defeating minority identity politics and overt white racism. And consider the guy telling you this, I actually slammed the administration for trying to play the race card. Sorry, race is at the core of what vexes Detroit.  

[4thewin]

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.

Hehe...do you live in PA?

Carlisle PA

5,000 jobs for Bethlehem Steel Co.
5,000 jobs GONE when the company was run bankrupt by the USW.

MY HOMETOWN!

Part of why Detroit is on he rocks is because there is a different mechanic to how Unions control the city. Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, there are special sanctions within the Commonwealth Assembly that limit the connections between Union and Office.

To strengthen that link, in 2009 a bill was introduced to the Commonwealth Assembly called the Open Workforce Initiative. Basically, the Union hold on City Hall in Pitt will DIE if this passes due to it making PA a Right to Work state.

Also consider the nature of the Auto Industry. The job market is extremely fluctuate. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates because...oh my...look at the number of jobs that DIDN'T get made as PROMISED by the takeover of GM and Chrysler!

Got an answer to that?

I live in PA about as much as you live in Detroit. If you're going to speak authoritatively on a place you don't live, so will I.

You've provided nothing specific as to how any controls bar union influence on office in Pitt than they would in Detroit. You've made only vague allusions and I can't answer to vague allusions. Sufficed to say, you seem to be trying to play both sides of coin here. You want to float the specter that Pittsburgh is as bad off by citing a factory closure (which you fail to link to USW, you just make the blanket claim that it was), but then immediately backtrack and try to suggest that special anti-union protections exist. Then you try and suggest that the influence indeed exists, but is about to be stamped out. That sort of incoherent backtracking is usually a case of someone caught on their own BS without real clear thoughts as to how to save their argument.

Now, remember, we've already moved the goal posts once here. The original position was liberal rule over cities. When it was pointed out that plenty of other cities have had long, unbroken Democratic governance for decades, the additional hurdle of "liberals AND unions" was added. Now you're moving the goalposts again to throw in "liberals AND unions AND no laws to prevent union influence in government." Do I have an answer to it? Does it really matter? You'll just drag the goalposts again and again and again no matter how many times you're shot down. So I'll ask you this, what would it take to convince you that Democratic governance and large organized unions have nothing to do with the current disposition of Detroit?

Actually he answer your question but you just ignored it and said he was twisting the truth. He explain the reason that it's still afloat is because the union doesn't have as much influence there as it did in Detroit. Is that clear enough?  

[Lord Izaran]

4thewin

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.

Hehe...do you live in PA?

Carlisle PA

5,000 jobs for Bethlehem Steel Co.
5,000 jobs GONE when the company was run bankrupt by the USW.

MY HOMETOWN!

Part of why Detroit is on he rocks is because there is a different mechanic to how Unions control the city. Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, there are special sanctions within the Commonwealth Assembly that limit the connections between Union and Office.

To strengthen that link, in 2009 a bill was introduced to the Commonwealth Assembly called the Open Workforce Initiative. Basically, the Union hold on City Hall in Pitt will DIE if this passes due to it making PA a Right to Work state.

Also consider the nature of the Auto Industry. The job market is extremely fluctuate. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates because...oh my...look at the number of jobs that DIDN'T get made as PROMISED by the takeover of GM and Chrysler!

Got an answer to that?

I live in PA about as much as you live in Detroit. If you're going to speak authoritatively on a place you don't live, so will I.

You've provided nothing specific as to how any controls bar union influence on office in Pitt than they would in Detroit. You've made only vague allusions and I can't answer to vague allusions. Sufficed to say, you seem to be trying to play both sides of coin here. You want to float the specter that Pittsburgh is as bad off by citing a factory closure (which you fail to link to USW, you just make the blanket claim that it was), but then immediately backtrack and try to suggest that special anti-union protections exist. Then you try and suggest that the influence indeed exists, but is about to be stamped out. That sort of incoherent backtracking is usually a case of someone caught on their own BS without real clear thoughts as to how to save their argument.

Now, remember, we've already moved the goal posts once here. The original position was liberal rule over cities. When it was pointed out that plenty of other cities have had long, unbroken Democratic governance for decades, the additional hurdle of "liberals AND unions" was added. Now you're moving the goalposts again to throw in "liberals AND unions AND no laws to prevent union influence in government." Do I have an answer to it? Does it really matter? You'll just drag the goalposts again and again and again no matter how many times you're shot down. So I'll ask you this, what would it take to convince you that Democratic governance and large organized unions have nothing to do with the current disposition of Detroit?

Actually he answer your question but you just ignored it and said he was twisting the truth. He explain the reason that it's still afloat is because the union doesn't have as much influence there as it did in Detroit. Is that clear enough?

Yeah, your right 4thewin. I believe the term is called 'Liberal Spin'. I can't be spun around, mkay?  

[TammiGirl]

4thewin

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Lord Izaran

TammiGirl

Well, I can't speak to the authenticity of the second photo, but Detroit is in essentially the same climate as Chicago is, and I know we can't grow palm trees in Chicago. So, that first photo isn't Detroit. As to your third photo, what part of liberal rule leads to the general ban on the hotlinking of photos?

As to Detroit being run into the ground by liberals, Boston has been run by liberals since 1930. And Boston doesn't look as run down. Maybe, perhaps, something else caused Detroit to tank and other cities, equally run by liberals, to thrive.

two fold with Detroit.

1) The Liberals
2) United Auto Workers

See?

Pittsburgh:

1. Democratic mayors since 1955.
2. United Steelworkers

Pittsburgh is nowhere near as run down as Detroit. Try again.

Hehe...do you live in PA?

Carlisle PA

5,000 jobs for Bethlehem Steel Co.
5,000 jobs GONE when the company was run bankrupt by the USW.

MY HOMETOWN!

Part of why Detroit is on he rocks is because there is a different mechanic to how Unions control the city. Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, there are special sanctions within the Commonwealth Assembly that limit the connections between Union and Office.

To strengthen that link, in 2009 a bill was introduced to the Commonwealth Assembly called the Open Workforce Initiative. Basically, the Union hold on City Hall in Pitt will DIE if this passes due to it making PA a Right to Work state.

Also consider the nature of the Auto Industry. The job market is extremely fluctuate. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates because...oh my...look at the number of jobs that DIDN'T get made as PROMISED by the takeover of GM and Chrysler!

Got an answer to that?

I live in PA about as much as you live in Detroit. If you're going to speak authoritatively on a place you don't live, so will I.

You've provided nothing specific as to how any controls bar union influence on office in Pitt than they would in Detroit. You've made only vague allusions and I can't answer to vague allusions. Sufficed to say, you seem to be trying to play both sides of coin here. You want to float the specter that Pittsburgh is as bad off by citing a factory closure (which you fail to link to USW, you just make the blanket claim that it was), but then immediately backtrack and try to suggest that special anti-union protections exist. Then you try and suggest that the influence indeed exists, but is about to be stamped out. That sort of incoherent backtracking is usually a case of someone caught on their own BS without real clear thoughts as to how to save their argument.

Now, remember, we've already moved the goal posts once here. The original position was liberal rule over cities. When it was pointed out that plenty of other cities have had long, unbroken Democratic governance for decades, the additional hurdle of "liberals AND unions" was added. Now you're moving the goalposts again to throw in "liberals AND unions AND no laws to prevent union influence in government." Do I have an answer to it? Does it really matter? You'll just drag the goalposts again and again and again no matter how many times you're shot down. So I'll ask you this, what would it take to convince you that Democratic governance and large organized unions have nothing to do with the current disposition of Detroit?

Actually he answer your question but you just ignored it and said he was twisting the truth. He explain the reason that it's still afloat is because the union doesn't have as much influence there as it did in Detroit. Is that clear enough?

No, I said the two of your were moving the goalposts, which is a logical fallacy. And you both are. It's intellectually fallacious, and actually a rather weak form of debate. I didn't say he was twisting the truth, I said he was being vague, which he was. Organized labor wielded every bit as much power in Pitt as it did in Detroit for the years that there was a US steel industry. His answer was an outright falsehood.  

[Lord Bitememan]

I think it's amazing the three of you are still trading barbs. Let me re-iterate something: I AM FROM DETROIT. None of the three of you are. And all three of you are barking up the wrong tree. Detroit's problems go way back to the 1960s. The attempts to institute busing programs in the city, along with a devestating race riot in the city caused most of the city's white inhabitants, who had the money to due largely to the generous union wages, to move to the suburbs. In the aftermath of the massive white flight Detroit devolved into very divisive racial identity politics, leading ultimately to the election of the corrupt and incompetent (though often very entertaining) Coleman Young. The tax base of the city was gutted with the loss of affluence to the suburbs, and Young didn't help matters by stoking further racial divisions. There was a brief lull in this when mayor Dennis Archer took over (failing to win even the majority of Detroit's black vote). Archer actually cultivated relationships with the suburbs and rebuilt the downtown area to attract businesses and suburban dollars back into the city. Detroit in the 1990s actually looked substantially better than most of the stereotypes would have you believe, and it was a place where you weren't afraid to go clubbing or hit the bars on a Friday night. The problem was a very vocal minority in this time that clung to identity politics gave Archer all kinds of hell, and even led a recall petition against him. He eventually declined to run for re-election, and soon in was Kwame Kilpatrick, largely because his name was Kwame and not Gill, like his opponent. Kilpatrick might have actually developed an impressive track record of running the city into the ground if it had not been for the fact that he was removed from office for corruption and perjury.

So, there you have it, white unwillingness to live with blacks and black identity politics hostile to working with the largely white suburbs. That's what caused Detroit. Compare that to cities like Sterling Heights, which are just as Democratically run and union influenced, but are great places. Of course, all the affluence moved into Sterling Heights and away from Detroit, but this is a heavily union area. Sterling Heights has a nickname around here, Sterling Whites. Kinda gives you an idea what's going on there.  

[Pandern]

I see America still a democracy but leaning toward a more socialistic ideals than capitalistic ideals.... the socialist idea is i good idea but I know that it could never exist because of all the unethical people in the world  

[Lord Izaran]

Point is. Commies like our resident Liberal are gonna run this nation into it's grave.

To quote Reagan (My hero heart ): ...This last great hope for men on Earth..." are we gonna let it die? the United States IS man's last great hope for peace, freedom, liberty, and security.

STAND UP AND DEFEND FREEDOM DAMNIT! scream  

[COMANDER COON]

correction this is not a democracy this is a republic there is a difference  

[TammiGirl]

COMANDER COON

correction this is not a democracy this is a republic there is a difference

Okay. What, in your opinion, is the difference?  

[SoViEtTaNkT34]

Latopazora

depends on who has power, if socialists win, we'll all be speaking Chinese. If the capitalists win, we'll be going through a hard time trying to dig ourselves out of this mess.

Actually given that China has pushed hard for its citizens to learn English it seems that China will soon be the largest English speaking nation.

Even North Korean Scientists learn English due to all scientific journals are in english...aka technology = English so most nations that want or are acquiring technology are learning English.

Its like in Japanese where you have a population that uses "hi" instead of the japanese version of "hi/hello."

So technically if anything every country will just speak English seeing as globally scientists do anyways.