A religious debate thread?!

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

Low and behold there is a Reputable and Valid site.

http://www.enkiea.org/index/cote

An official religious organization, that is of satanism, though they are known/called Church of the Elders.

I thank Aeris on 4chan's /x/ board for posting this link. o 3o

Though he or she is not a Gaia user.  

[DarkWolfLove]

Much better.
Not perfect, but better.

 

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

*Does a bow*

:3

Finally something good came from 4chan.

3nodding  

[sailor hamster]

I'm an agnostic. i'm not sure about anything anymore. i'm thinking on practicing Buddhism. probably zen or tantric buddhism...  

[RevvRaptor]

Me personally, I still believe there's no such thing as Religion, we each believe what we choose to. I believe in God, aka Yahweh/Jehova, because I've actually experienced it. Some can attempt to disprove this, but the question that needs to be asked in response is: Were you there to experience the same thing any of us were at that time to be able to prove/disprove it?

Yes, text across the Internet holds little real sway, however Garek hit the nail on the head, it takes just as much brainpower to move one's fingers across a keyboard to convey a point as it does to move one's lips and activate one's vocal chords to speak the same point.

You can say my beliefs are false, but I don't need to offer someone else's written word to know what I've experienced is very much real. I'll never need to view Wikipedia or any other online source to know that I've both prayed and meditated at the same time and achieved positive results far more often than not. Disprove me if you wish, but try it for yourself and THEN talk, because to say it without trying it is to waste words with no facts. Analogies have been flying left and right here, so I'll offer one of my own to that effect: It's like saying cabbage tastes as bad as it smells, while never having tried even a leaf of it once in your life.

The Bible may not be entirely accurate, but the funny thing is I've always known that, which is why I don't turn to anyone but myself and God for such guidance, it's like cutting out the middle-man in a deal, and while it might not work for others, it's always worked for me. Can you say I'm wrong simply because you believe differently from me? Absolutely you can. Can you prove that I'm wrong because of what you believe, even though I'm speaking for myself and not an entire Religion as a whole? No Human can do that, no matter who/what they believe, only a Deity could accomplish such a thing. I for one won't even humor an attempt to pretend that I'm anywhere close to such.

Anyone can claim the rest are wrong and they're right, but I'm pretty sure most of us left those arguments back in the sandboxes of our youths.. This is a discussion on Religion, a debate as the Topic is titled, debates that include insults are not debates, they're arguments, one-sided at that, pertaining to something called a "God" complex.

Religion of all types were made simply to give Humanity something to look to for guidance, to keep them from straying into a spiral of utter blood-ridden chaos. Is there a God? Based on my own experiences, I believe there very well could be. Is there a Lucifer/Satan? Based on the experiences of those who believe, there very well could be. Are there other Gods/Spirits/etc.? There very well could be.

And if we're discussing the fantasy aspect of things, couldn't a being like Lucifer embroiling in a losing war with Angels who then guided Man to write books denouncing him as a demon be just as much fantasy as God descending Lucifer from Heaven for having a God Complex? When you take the Satanist argument and put it up to the Christian argument, each essentially sounds like the others' in reverse.  

[Tula Derp]

Atheist. I don't believe in god/satan/heaven/afterlife/etc... at all.

I'm also not a fan of religion in general. Everyone religious in my life has always been a massive c**t to me. That's not to say it's all bad, but I got a hatred of religion beat into me at a young age. It's not why I'm an Atheist it's just a good contributing factor.

And religion is still ******** with my life. In my line of work it can make the difference of if I get hired or not, so I can't state an opinion on it. Which is completely illegal but that's apparently how the game works.

 

[[-Erik-]]

Tula Derp

Atheist. I don't believe in god/satan/heaven/afterlife/etc... at all.

I'm also not a fan of religion in general. Everyone religious in my life has always been a massive c**t to me. That's not to say it's all bad, but I got a hatred of religion beat into me at a young age. It's not why I'm an Atheist it's just a good contributing factor.

And religion is still ******** with my life. In my line of work it can make the difference of if I get hired or not, so I can't state an opinion on it. Which is completely illegal but that's apparently how the game works.

KEEP FIGHTING THE POWER, SISTER!  

[Garek Maxwell]

Tula Derp

And religion is still ******** with my life. In my line of work it can make the difference of if I get hired or not, so I can't state an opinion on it. Which is completely illegal but that's apparently how the game works.

Depends on the organization. Government institutions are not allowed to really take any sides and religion is supposed to be a non-issue that is out of the scope of the government. On the other hand, private institutions are not limited by these rules, so they can and will discriminate if it benefits them. Many yankees should be rather frightened that their freedoms end at privatization and they should damn well be chilled that more places and institutions are being privatized every day.

-------------Kinda off topic side rambling on my part.---------------

Can't say religions have treated me well either. I'm just not comfortable with the "absolutely nothing" thought and prefer to have my 'self' preserved after death...somehow. I just realized that I never really considered my self as a separated object to reflect upon and have a desire to preserve after death as if I were somehow existing outside of it and existing to even reflect upon it... I'm suddenly more confused now about how such a thing could even work and wonder how religions could even begin to grasp these ideas given how incredibly recent and new they are... It wasn't even until after the middle ages that people seemed to have a sense of the self, and it didn't even seem that common until the mid 20th century...  

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

Pending on Laveyan satanism, some of it's beliefs seem to "Fit well", since I've never ran into actual "Deities" if anything I had a vision where I spoke to a moon goddess I like to call Luna, (Or those familiar with Greek mythology might know her as Selene), but saying that was another being talking to me is not completely plausible as it could very well have been my conscious in other words "Me/Myself" telling me what I wanted to hear.  

[[-Erik-]]

Yay! This thread's back on top.

I've brought a bucket full of dirt, LET'S FIGHT!  

[Jungle Boots]

Id say when it comes down to religion... im nothing really... Im a Nihlist and an anti-humanist, but at best a secular humanist in most of my philosophical thoughts. I dont feel a self grown religion is an issue of contradiction in those philosophical schools, thus religion is not an issue i feel is very important to me. (maybe i can say that its not a big issue because i dont really believe in ay religion or have any spiritual beliefs to begin with... but really i find no need to reconcile the possibility of my philosophies with my potential faith)

generally i would consider myself a theistic-atheist.

but more so i find myself an anti-new atheist or an anti-anti-theist.

all in all I fear a world without religious morals more so than a future with a renewed theocracy.

I think there is just as much maligancy in secular morals, just as much manipulability if not even more. I think science is just as faith based in the mind of the average human as religion is faith based. i feel the oposition between science and religion is false, that there is no real conflict between the two and that the conflict is a symptom or a diversion from the mass denial of other larger conflicts within the concept of humanity and human nature itself.  

[Garek Maxwell]

Jungle Boots

all in all I fear a world without religious morals more so than a future with a renewed theocracy.

If it helps, you probably don't need to worry about a world without religious morals. If anything, people are just going to have a huge range of options and they'll be aware of that fact, meaning people will actively choose what they believe is right and wrong. Somewhat different from today where largely people are aware of the different religions out there but have yet to see them all as options.

However, we already have some early symptoms with people choosing religions like they choose ice cream flavors who are sometimes called "fluff bunnies". It'll only be more common. It certainly won't be a great awakening of intellect most people hope, rather it'd be pop culture applied to religion. Kinda already there I guess, but I'm certain it will be more common in the future.  

[Jungle Boots]

I see that mass psychological movement towards pop faith as a symptom of a secular world veiw. There in being no single universal truth (no god, no dharma, no deities, only a strive for reason and truth (the objective of secular thought)) one thusly can choose between Universal truths as if they were foods arranged at a buffet...There is no real existential or rational investment of a sense of reality in pop faith.

The world is intellectually growing more and more secular, and less and less religious. What really matters humanistically is rapidly becoming secular, and dictated by esoteric sciences. Mostly growing thusly in parallel with the advances and understandings of scientific work. Things like the definition of human, humanity, good, justice, rights, truth and reality. (concepts of 'self-evidence')

I dont necessarily find that corruptive nor do i find that it naturally alludes to a foul future in and of itself.

But i fear the inherent arbitrary nature of an atempt to create a universal secular moral system leads to a vast ambiguity. An abyss of definition; and thus an arbitrary construction of obliviously metaphysical non-objective concepts to justify, and establish said moral systems to make up for this abyss of definition. All of which are just as manipulable due to its arbitrarity, if not more manipulable then an establishment of "God says this is right end of story."

Not to say God has ever said "this is whats right" with pure and objective certainty. But at least the concept of God proves a perfect system of judgement in the concept of God's omnipotence incorporeality and infinity. Something lowly human science cannot ever provide. At least in religion there is a pure logical establishment of the value of human life, in being the child of God, life given by God, it is that which can only be obstructed or taken away justly by the will of God.

Secular morals can only come so close as to say "human life is valuable because other humans are necessary in helping any given individual human through their hardship of life, through exchanges of labor, services, goods, thought, and emotions." Essentially: "a human is only as valuable as their ability to contribute to the whole or a fraction of humanity." Which even in the macro level of exchange, is relatively small.

ugh... i disgust myself...

No moral system will ever find objective and certain justifications for itself... EVER. Everything is arbitrary... concepts of God and and religion are constructs of human interpretation, secular and even scientific truths are constructs of human interpretation.

This is the inevitablility of secular morals, the realization that morals are abritrary, and i feel the ambiguity of an abritrary morality is dangerous.  

[Garek Maxwell]

Jungle Boots

No moral system will ever find objective and certain justifications for itself... EVER. Everything is arbitrary... concepts of God and and religion are constructs of human interpretation, secular and even scientific truths are constructs of human interpretation.

This is the inevitablility of secular morals, the realization that morals are abritrary, and i feel the ambiguity of an abritrary morality is dangerous.

I see where you're coming from, but there are beneficial objective morals that people can agree upon so to speak. The simplest one? It's nice to be nice. Nothing more than the simple quality of life with more niceness to go around to be the objective benefit.

I can't think of any damaging costs associated with it... And if people are sampling the buffet of beliefs, then they are likely to be more open about it than before. Frankly, I don't think there's ever been a time where more people actually actively tried to respect one another's beliefs and, well, were trying to be nice to one another about those differences. There's definitely extremists, but a lot has changed since the era of okayed racism 50 years ago...or 60. Darn years keeps moving forward. mad

Oh, and of course, there's always the possibility to form a sort of manifesto for the new age, outlining things like respecting one another in their beliefs but objecting to the behaviors when said beliefs are pushed onto others or actively do harm to another person. Given that they would be aware of the choices available to them, it wouldn't be much to ask for them to tweak their beliefs so they aren't jerks.  

[Xx_Hanyuu-San_xX]

Actually I can say I have experienced the so called Yahweh/Jehova, or at least his messengers, and I can say it's a load of s**t, after the visitation (During a time which I was stupid enough to believe in that God), I was attacked later by a supposed Demon, I did my meditations and opened my Third eye, it attacked me another time, this time I was able to See it's Real aura and form past it's disguise and saw it was the Messenger that was sent before, since then I have no trust for the Bible, Jehova, or Angels, they're all scum that do what they can to trap you into their line, furthermore anyone who's Awakened their sense knows damn well when someone nearby is praying or when a church is singing/praying their is a very nasty irritating generation of mass negative energies together, even from people who claim you must find god yourself and blah blah, that's not true it's still the same your still helping the Angels generate negative energy to damage the earth.