Proposal for using guild treasure-WE HAVE AN UPDATE!!!!

[Ebania]

Celine Fiaro

I feel that guilds should have the capability of purchasing specific "houses" in TOWNS that are larger, suited for many people. By investing more gold they can have several options of pre-rendered models (So that customization is limited, but still possible.)

The decisions can only be made/confirmed by a guild captain, it evades adding an "item" to the world, or ownership of an item to a specific party of the guild, while still benefiting everyone in the guild. I picture this as similar to "Ragnarok Online's guild castles", minus the daily treasure spawn.

This implementation would make more use out of the Towns system Gaia has, and puts more focus on the social aspect of them, rather than having a private home. All of the guild members could enter at any time, and nobody else is allowed in. You must be a member of the guild to enter. This also promotes the exclusivity of guilds in the already extremely open forum.

Why implement extremist new features when we could revitalize the ones that have been here for years?



The fees for these ideas should be rather high. Like, in the six-to-seven digit range to purchase the "real estate" and an extremely broad spectrum of costs based on interior designs.

Thoughts?

I would personally love a feature like this. Our guild loves to host social, live events, and having a safe, enclosed, and private area in which our members could have fun would definitely be worth the financial investment.  

[Pilotslover]

Mysteh

I totally disagree with crew getting any sort of "automated" monthly paycheck for being crew. This would make every single person who doesn't already bug Captains to be crew becuz they want to be "important" or go on a "power trip" come out of the woodwork and beg to be crew so they could have a job and earn money becuz they are so poor and need help. No thanks.

However, if a Captain wanted to be able to pay his staff manually, I suppose, so long as it was completely disclosed to guild members that the staff got paid, they should be allowed to. Just so long as people understand that it is at the Captains discretion and not every guild will pay their staff. I honestly don't want the headache of people wanting to be crew just becuz they think they are going to get paid.

I disapprove of the idea of paying staff end of story. If Gaia introduces such a thing for the guilds then I'd honestly consider leaving.  

[iMito]

I have lots of thoughts, so forgive me if not all of them deal with the treasury.

Dealing with the guild treasury:

1. Selling back subforums for 1/2 the cost.
2. New Create-aable Position Titles besides Captain/Vice-Captain/Crew with editable permissions. For example: If I own a newspaper writing guild and I have writers. Sometimes I don't want them to have crew status, but I want them to have an exclusive subforum.
3. I'm strongly against the funds being given out. But, maybe have an avatar contest system similar to the bigger one, where people vote on an avis and whoever wins, gets it directly.
4. Guild achievements. I don't know how this would work specifically, but it could be cool.
5. Guild Movie Nights, where Gaia supplies a select title and we pay for our guild to have a private viewing of just our guild. (I know it costs a bit to buy the license to decent movies, but I'm pretty sure Gaia has the money to do this.)
6. A newsbox at the top of the forums. Similar to the way Reddit has sidebars to their forums. Where we can put information like a link to the guild IRC chat, etc.
7. A member of the week/month box on the front page.
8. Basic CSS editing, maybe. (Or more advanced like the profiles.)

Not dealing with the treasury:

1. Ability to rearrange subforums.
2. Guild "Group Chats" in the new meebo toolbar.
3. Option to block non-members. I'm Vice-Captain of an LGBT Guild, and sometimes we have people come in and post something... well, not nice. And we can't do anything about it because we stand by the fact our guild should be public.

Just some ideas...

Lastly, to reiterate I'm strongly against the funds being able to be given to members or used to buy stuff for members. If I make a new person a crew, I suddenly have the fear they'll steal the guild's funds and run away with it.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Strude

I haven't read what everyone has said but I guess the one read point I want to make is that gold is donated voluntarily and users know that whatever happens they gave that gold up with the knowledge that the gold may be used contrary to what the donor desires. I guess you should make a BIG OLD WARNING when users donate that outlines the agreement the donor is making.

With that run-on sentence out of the way I'll add my two cents in.

- The treasury can have parameters set to it. Limiting what the gold can be used for; much like it is now but add some options.

• Limit the gold that can be used a month.
  
• Do not allow the guild leader to take the gold directly from the treasury to their own account.
  
• Make a new shop that is for gaia guilds. Where guild leaders can spend the gold on specific update for the guild. Such as purchase a new layout style (well if the GGN Devs decide to allow for custom CSS for example.) Or say buy new ranks (if the Devs bring in a new ranking system that allows guild leaders to create ranks, name them and set permissions.) Or even buy specialty items for the guild members, for example a guild Tabard or Flag that guild members (and only members of the guild) can purchase and wear on their avatars to show their support/allegiance. Maybe crowns, cloaks or banners that sport the guilds colours and symbol (symbols that guild leaders can select from a list of symbols and colours. If you play WoW you know what I mean! >D)

How about an item, such as a flag, with a map of for example 40 by 40 pixels, and an image edit tool that the guild captain can use to create an unique symbol for the guild? And guild funds could be used to purchase this item for active members, and it would become soulbound, not to be sold in the marketplace? Guilds could have contests to design the pixel map, etc.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Ebony the Peacian

Celine Fiaro

I feel that guilds should have the capability of purchasing specific "houses" in TOWNS that are larger, suited for many people. By investing more gold they can have several options of pre-rendered models (So that customization is limited, but still possible.)

The decisions can only be made/confirmed by a guild captain, it evades adding an "item" to the world, or ownership of an item to a specific party of the guild, while still benefiting everyone in the guild. I picture this as similar to "Ragnarok Online's guild castles", minus the daily treasure spawn.

This implementation would make more use out of the Towns system Gaia has, and puts more focus on the social aspect of them, rather than having a private home. All of the guild members could enter at any time, and nobody else is allowed in. You must be a member of the guild to enter. This also promotes the exclusivity of guilds in the already extremely open forum.

Why implement extremist new features when we could revitalize the ones that have been here for years?



The fees for these ideas should be rather high. Like, in the six-to-seven digit range to purchase the "real estate" and an extremely broad spectrum of costs based on interior designs.

Thoughts?

I would personally love a feature like this. Our guild loves to host social, live events, and having a safe, enclosed, and private area in which our members could have fun would definitely be worth the financial investment.

I think that'd be great! And it should be made so that normal Gaia houses furniture could be used in it, so that members could donate furniture to the guild. And then Gaia could make special furniture only for guild houses, and guilds could buy that, or members could donate it to guilds.

Edit: also, anyone else bored of Barton Town having only one music, all the time? How about the opportunity to download your own soundtracks to your guild house? Either music you have the right to distribute, or music you made yourself.  

[Ebania]

iMito

I have lots of thoughts, so forgive me if not all of them deal with the treasury.

Dealing with the guild treasury:

1. Selling back subforums for 1/2 the cost.
2. New Position Titles besides Captain/Vice-Captain/Crew with editable permissions. For example: If I own a newspaper writing guild and I have writers. Sometimes I don't want them to have crew status
3. I'm strongly against the funds given out. But, maybe have an avatar contest system similar to the bigger one, where people vote on an avis and whoever wins, gets it directly.
4. Guild achievements. I don't know how this would work specifically, but it could be cool.
5. Guild Movie Nights, where Gaia supplies a select title and we pay for our guild to have a private viewing of just our guild. (I know it costs a bit to buy the license to decent movies, but I'm pretty sure Gaia has the money to do this.)
6. A newsbox at the top of the forums. Similar to the way Reddit has sidebars to their forums. Where we can put information like a link to the guild IRC chat, etc.
7. A member of the week/month box on the front page.
8. Basic CSS editing, maybe. (Or more advanced like the profiles.)

Not dealing with the treasury:

1. Ability to rearrange subforums.
2. Guild "Group Chats" in the new meebo toolbar.
3. Option to block non-members. I'm Vice-Captain of an LGBT Guild, and sometimes we have people come in and post something... well, not nice. And we can't do anything about it because we stand by the fact our guild should be public.

Just some ideas...

Lastly, to reiterate I'm strongly against the funds being able to be given to members or used to buy stuff for members. If I make a new person a crew, I suddenly have the fear they'll steal the guild's funds and run away with it.

Oh my goodness, your ideas are awesome! And I totally agree with you. On just about everything. I particularly agree with you on deleting/rearranging subforums; being unable to do either is really a handicap, let me just say. Guild achievements, group chats, basic chatting, and the ability to ban non-members from posting in a public guild would be amazing, especially the last thing. I can't tell you how much I would love to be able to open the Newbie Supporting and Training Guild to the public during big events without being afraid of the invasion of porn and scams and trolls. burning_eyes

Sergeant Perks

I think that'd be great! And it should be made so that normal Gaia houses furniture could be used in it, so that members could donate furniture to the guild. And then Gaia could make special furniture only for guild houses, and guilds could buy that, or members could donate it to guilds.

That would be awesome!

If something like this were to become a reality, how would y'all feel about the furniture being "soulbound" to the guild, thus turning this feature into a goldsink? I know some guilds (mine included) that would be all over this like white on rice, and have a blast spending gold on fun decorations.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Ebony the Peacian

Sergeant Perks

I think that'd be great! And it should be made so that normal Gaia houses furniture could be used in it, so that members could donate furniture to the guild. And then Gaia could make special furniture only for guild houses, and guilds could buy that, or members could donate it to guilds.

That would be awesome!

If something like this were to become a reality, how would y'all feel about the furniture being "soulbound" to the guild, thus turning this feature into a goldsink? I know some guilds (mine included) that would be all over this like white on rice, and have a blast spending gold on fun decorations.

I have experience of my own version of this. My main account, Laura Vandemar, has a vampire clan. We made something called 'The Vampire Mansion project'. It means basically that members open their homes to other members, and turn them into rooms of the Vampire Mansion. The clan donated furniture to crew members to make their rooms extra fancy. Laura Vandemar's house is the Audience Chamber, where we held lots of parties back when the clan was more active. We have a list in the clan forums, listing the Barton addresses of the houses that are part of the Vampire Mansion. Sometimes we'd hold thanksgiving dinner in the Dining Hall, or have a small gathering in the Mule's bedchamber. We allowed non-members to enter too, and it was fun to invite our allies the Daughters of Gaia, and some other clans and guilds, into our celebrations.

So I think the guild houses could have the option to make them temporarily available to everyone, when the guild has visitors from an allied guild.

Also, I think ALL parts of Gaia should be available for making a guild house in. Not just Barton, but Durem, Aekea and Isle of Gambino too!  

[Sergeant Perks]

Pilotslover

Mysteh

I totally disagree with crew getting any sort of "automated" monthly paycheck for being crew. This would make every single person who doesn't already bug Captains to be crew becuz they want to be "important" or go on a "power trip" come out of the woodwork and beg to be crew so they could have a job and earn money becuz they are so poor and need help. No thanks.

However, if a Captain wanted to be able to pay his staff manually, I suppose, so long as it was completely disclosed to guild members that the staff got paid, they should be allowed to. Just so long as people understand that it is at the Captains discretion and not every guild will pay their staff. I honestly don't want the headache of people wanting to be crew just becuz they think they are going to get paid.

I disapprove of the idea of paying staff end of story. If Gaia introduces such a thing for the guilds then I'd honestly consider leaving.

You do know that many guilds pay their crew manually? sweatdrop No one said all guilds should do the same thing...  

[Sergeant Perks]

ShadowsHeartBreak

nanieru

wingedcentaur

To help avoid abuse, I would suggest that all guild transactions would be a matter of public record, so to speak. A page that shows all transactions, a reason for them, etc. So that members can see if the gold is being used responsibly. No one would want to be a part of a guild that wasn't honest about their funds.

I second this 3nodding

This is actually a really good idea. I totally support it.

I support this idea too. I already make my guild transactions public, but it's a lot of work to do it all manually.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Mysteh

I didn't read every tiny word but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in based on what I did read. I definitely agree with only the Captain (& possibly Vice) being the only ones able to handle funds and full disclosure on all funds. You won't ever be able to prevent someone from attempting to abuse any system that allows them to donate/contribute/gift/send any gold or items to any other player because it is impossible to know who is a persons mule and who isn't. Making it so that only Captains (and possibly Vice's) could buy an item from a special shop as prizes still won't prevent them from utilizing any number of mules as prize winners for contests. Coupled with the fact that "gifting" items is not tracked or traceable at this time, to the best of my knowledge, it would be next to impossible to come up with ways to completely prevent theft and abuse.

However, even though it isn't perfect, full disclosure is a pretty hefty deterrent. If each and every transaction were:

A. Viewable by any and all guild members
B. Required the filling out of a form to complete the transaction (Reason for transaction, date, timestamp, sender etc)
C. Required the acceptance by the recipient like the trade window does to verify the recipient indeed got the item on their account so they could not come back and say they didn't
D. Limited to a capped amount of gold/capped item value (Say there was a store to buy prizes from, all prizes could be priced at no higher than the capped transfer amount so they would pass through the system)

The guild item store would have to be the only place guilds could purchase items so Captains (and/or Vices) cannot buy their own items from the MP to embezzle money or purchase any items from anywhere else to send as prizes to recipients preventing them from buying expensive items and rigging contests to get those items on their mules.

Since this store would probably contain items that aren't available elsewhere (tho it could feasibly contain some shop items that fall under the cap amount) you may want to consider making any items that are only available from the special guild store "soulbound" to eliminate inflation. If the items can't leave the account of the guild member they are sent to, there is no real value, artificial or otherwise.

The idea someone had of voting on an item before it can be released from the guild has some potential. Perhaps it could require the Captain, Vice and a minimum of 2 Crew to check a box from their accounts (sort of a bigger trade window that shows 4 boxes with the transfer info and who has signed off on it) authorizing the transfer if that isn't too difficult to code. But that also runs the risk of crew who disappear for months or years on end not being there so you would need to maintain a set number of active crew for this to work. Then, having all of this transfer information available for anyone to see and question say, on the front page of the guild so if anyone did try anything shifty, it would be highly visible.

Lastly, make ripping off your guild members a permaban offense.

The one thing that would let Gaia off the hook with all of this is to throw all responsibility for this onto the members. Leave it up to the guild members to be proactive in watching how the guild staff spend their money and if they see it is being misused or abused, they can:

A. Choose not to donate
B. Chose to donate knowing the risks
C. Chose to leave the guild
D. Choose to report the owner for fraud/theft of funds if they have adequate proof fraud/theft has occurred

... and if they stay, donate and aren't happy but do nothing to change their situation, it's on them and not Gaia admin.

These thoughts are with regards to purchasing/awarding prizes for/to guild members. The safest thing to do otherwise would be to simply stick with people's requests to give more options to change the face of the guild (colour, things that can be purchased towards guild customization etc) and only allow the money to be spent on those things and not transferred in any way, shape or form to other members.

I totally disagree with crew getting any sort of "automated" monthly paycheck for being crew. This would make every single person who doesn't already bug Captains to be crew becuz they want to be "important" or go on a "power trip" come out of the woodwork and beg to be crew so they could have a job and earn money becuz they are so poor and need help. No thanks.

However, if a Captain wanted to be able to pay his staff manually, I suppose, so long as it was completely disclosed to guild members that the staff got paid, they should be allowed to. Just so long as people understand that it is at the Captains discretion and not every guild will pay their staff. I honestly don't want the headache of people wanting to be crew just becuz they think they are going to get paid.

I like the idea of a Guilds shop. Any thoughts on what NPC to make the one in charge of it? Leon? Bring back Flynn from space?  

[Pilotslover]

Sergeant Perks

You do know that many guilds pay their crew manually? sweatdrop No one said all guilds should do the same thing...

Yes I do know and I don't approve of it.

You should crew a guild because you're devoted to it, not because you're being paid.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Pilotslover

Sergeant Perks

You do know that many guilds pay their crew manually? sweatdrop No one said all guilds should do the same thing...

Yes I do know and I don't approve of it.

You should crew a guild because you're devoted to it, not because you're being paid.

Just so you know, I've never paid my crew, either from guild funds or my own. I've hired workers, but I haven't promoted those hired workers to crew. But my friend pays his crew members and other members 1000 gold for every contest idea they submit, and bonuses if they run contest topics. I've earned a few of these bonuses, usually I donate them back to the guild.  

[Pilotslover]

Sergeant Perks

Just so you know, I've never paid my crew, either from guild funds or my own. I've hired workers, but I haven't promoted those hired workers to crew. But my friend pays his crew members and other members 1000 gold for every contest idea they submit, and bonuses if they run contest topics. I've earned a few of these bonuses, usually I donate them back to the guild.

I genuinely don't understand anyone who would pay their crew if I'm honest sweatdrop .

Paying for contest ideas is something I'll have to ruminate on before I say either way but I'd prefer to offer incentives other then gold.  

[Sergeant Perks]

Pilotslover

Sergeant Perks

Just so you know, I've never paid my crew, either from guild funds or my own. I've hired workers, but I haven't promoted those hired workers to crew. But my friend pays his crew members and other members 1000 gold for every contest idea they submit, and bonuses if they run contest topics. I've earned a few of these bonuses, usually I donate them back to the guild.

I genuinely don't understand anyone who would pay their crew if I'm honest sweatdrop .

Paying for contest ideas is something I'll have to ruminate on before I say either way but I'd prefer to offer incentives other then gold.

Well, it works for him and his guild is quite frankly the best guild on Gaia. But suit yourself, no one is forcing you to be a member in guilds you don't approve of.  

[Pilotslover]

Sergeant Perks

Well, it works for him and his guild is quite frankly the best guild on Gaia. But suit yourself, no one is forcing you to be a member in guilds you don't approve of.

No need to be snippy, I'm still trying to form an opinion on the concept.
Incentives are something I personally don't use nor plan to but I can see the logic in them.