This guild is so dead, guys.

[ZiPPy2157]

Garek Maxwell

ZiPPy2157

Are you two gay? Not being hateful or nothing idc I just don't understand how a guy could want to be a peterpuffer and not a muffdiver..... -.- and don't say you were born that was cause there's a reason we all cry when they pull us out. "WHAAAA IT WAS WARM IN DER!!!!"

I am, Erik's not.
Also, it's pretty well established that it is biological.
http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2003/12/02/the_biological_basis_of_homosexuality/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
http://www.livescience.com/1125-homosexual-animals-closet.html
http://www.livescience.com/2094-homosexuality-turned-fruit-flies.html
http://www.livescience.com/751-lesbians-brains-react-differently.html
http://www.livescience.com/7056-mom-genetics-produce-gay-sons.html
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web1/Rana.html (Not Authoritative, but a good read.)
http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_65878.asp

To just name a few sources...

Ok the guild rules say's, so I won't do, but I don't belive nun of that crap it's a choice you made it. You may have a diffent Opion, but that's mine and Im ending it there. I dont got nothing wrong with gay people I have gay friend's belive it or not, and Ik they will respect me not to hit on meh because im not gay, but they are really fun to hangout with. Ya'know In fact now that I think about it my ex's gay bro watched us...I didn't care, but he never looked at me the same way, it was very awkward. -.-  

[DarkWolfLove]

ZiPPy2157

Garek Maxwell

ZiPPy2157

Are you two gay? Not being hateful or nothing idc I just don't understand how a guy could want to be a peterpuffer and not a muffdiver..... -.- and don't say you were born that was cause there's a reason we all cry when they pull us out. "WHAAAA IT WAS WARM IN DER!!!!"

I am, Erik's not.
Also, it's pretty well established that it is biological.
http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2003/12/02/the_biological_basis_of_homosexuality/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3008-homosexuality-is-biological-suggests-gay-sheep-study.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
http://www.livescience.com/1125-homosexual-animals-closet.html
http://www.livescience.com/2094-homosexuality-turned-fruit-flies.html
http://www.livescience.com/751-lesbians-brains-react-differently.html
http://www.livescience.com/7056-mom-genetics-produce-gay-sons.html
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web1/Rana.html (Not Authoritative, but a good read.)
http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_65878.asp

To just name a few sources...

Ok the guild rules say's, so I won't do, but I don't belive nun of that crap it's a choice you made it. You may have a diffent Opion, but that's mine and Im ending it there. I dont got nothing wrong with gay people I have gay friend's belive it or not, and Ik they will respect me not to hit on meh because im not gay, but they are really fun to hangout with. Ya'know In fact now that I think about it my ex's gay bro watched us...I didn't care, but he never looked at me the same way, it was very awkward. -.-

And animals choose to be gay as well?
Ducks, lions, giraffes (who go homo more often than hetero), chimpanzees, and many other species also "choose"?
It's your choice to believe whatever you want to believe, but based on facts and studies, I don't understand how you can still believe it.

 

[Garek Maxwell]

ZiPPy2157

Ok the guild rules say's, so I won't do, but I don't belive nun of that crap it's a choice you made it. You may have a diffent Opion, but that's mine and Im ending it there. I dont got nothing wrong with gay people I have gay friend's belive it or not, and Ik they will respect me not to hit on meh because im not gay, but they are really fun to hangout with. Ya'know In fact now that I think about it my ex's gay bro watched us...I didn't care, but he never looked at me the same way, it was very awkward. -.-

Understanding the natural world is hardly crap. Heck, I didn't even bring up half the other links I could find on the subject matter, considering most of those were from reputable scientific studies. The debate's looong shifted from choice vs. inborn to genetics vs hormones vs both.

Using everyday logic, why would anyone want to be discriminated against and even put to death in some countries? Let alone the outright torture both mentally and physically homosexuals endured in the earlier days of psychiatry, when lobotomies were still around and in many cases it these horrid treatments went beyond lobotomy's acceptance as legitimate treatment for mental illness. (Ironically implying that it isn't a choice anyway in some treatments like were shock therapy was "required".) Then there's the social issues, with families disowning their children, turning them out on the streets. There's even denying hospital visitation when one of the two are sick. And let's not forget "conversion therapy" has the remarkable "success rate" of 1% max.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
They're also fraught with problems, being labeled as torture quite often.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy#Medical.2C_scientific_and_legal_views

I'm not even going to go into great detail on my personal experience, because it matters the least. If it were a choice, I would have been straight. I never, ever, ever chose to be a second class citizen with fewer rights and privileges than everyone else. I never chose to be on the receiving end of pure hatred for my mere existence. I never chose to fear for my safety or my life if I talk or act just "right". ...And I haven't even begun to get into the whole social aspects.

You can continue to believe otherwise. I can't stop you since, unlike in my situation, it really is a choice when it comes to how you perceive the world. I would just hope you would choose compassion and logic over...well, denial pretty much since that's the only thing I can think of. Really, what do you have to lose accepting it's biological?

Oh, by the way, the "I have lots of gay friends!" is a terrible thing to say because:

1. You probably don't know how they feel about the whole thing.
2. It doesn't absolve you of being homophobic or heterosexist if you are.
3. It follows the same line of "I'm not XYZ, but (insert something clearly XYZ)".  

[ZiPPy2157]

hmm..I can very well understand where you come from honest.
and I have to say you don't have to be gay to go thought soical torment, I my self have been to 6 diffent phyc ward's. Now I wasn't in a stright jacket or nothing, but I have been labeled hated discreminated just as much as you could of been if not more. My file's tell anyone who read them that I am emotional disterbed by the age of 25 I am exspected to have homcidal or sudical tendacys. I grew up fighting not for the reason you did, but all the same they called me diffen't I have never been to a normal school. I have been to juvilanile twice the first for nearly killing my mom's Bf for hiting her, The 2nd for nearly killing my mom for the abuse she caused me. I tend not to look back at my past I like to go blank and forget. I am only 16 and I Realize 2 Thing's. This world is corrupt and hipcrital and we are the cause for it. I Think a bit more then your avgrage 16 year old does I have done plenty of drug's and seen more then you could imagain a kid seeing. I have watched people get shot, stabbed, and muitalted. This world is a crual place and I realize it more then anyone that something's arent a choice, I dont go around hateing people for that. in fact if I heard about anyone messing with my gay friend's Ide ******** them up because God doesn't look away from you for what you choose he gave you that right, and like a father should he love's you uncondtionaly. But I warn you. When this world burn's you will be left to swim in the lake. I cursed him away and my pain is not the emotional or hate I feel, but knowing forever I will be sparated from his grace. You all still have a choice Repent or Sin. He tell's me I still do, but I can't escape the fate eh?

please don't report me -.- I will leave your guild and never speak to you again sorry, most be people think im shady it's alright even though Im pretty normal I think, but then it is the quiet one's who are the one's to watch out for. Sorry if I wierd you out goodbye thank you for listening  

[DarkWolfLove]

I don't understand what just happened here...
.__.

 

[Guaif]

I tried reading but... my brain broke.... >.<  

[Garek Maxwell]

ZiPPy2157

hmm..I can very well understand where you come from honest.
and I have to say you don't have to be gay to go thought soical torment, I my self have been to 6 diffent phyc ward's. Now I wasn't in a stright jacket or nothing, but I have been labeled hated discreminated just as much as you could of been if not more. My file's tell anyone who read them that I am emotional disterbed by the age of 25 I am exspected to have homcidal or sudical tendacys. I grew up fighting not for the reason you did, but all the same they called me diffen't I have never been to a normal school. I have been to juvilanile twice the first for nearly killing my mom's Bf for hiting her, The 2nd for nearly killing my mom for the abuse she caused me. I tend not to look back at my past I like to go blank and forget. I am only 16 and I Realize 2 Thing's. This world is corrupt and hipcrital and we are the cause for it. I Think a bit more then your avgrage 16 year old does I have done plenty of drug's and seen more then you could imagain a kid seeing. I have watched people get shot, stabbed, and muitalted. This world is a crual place and

Made red for a red herring.

I feel bad for you, of course, and there are people worse off, but that doesn't change anything. It's like if someone says 10 people were raped and murdered in an alley, then the other replies "well, thousands are dying of starvation in country X".

Separate issues. Red Herring. It's especially heinous when it's used as an excuse to ignore the other serious problem.

ZiPPy2157

I realize it more then anyone that something's arent a choice, I dont go around hateing people for that. in fact if I heard about anyone messing with my gay friend's Ide ******** them up

That's nice, but violence isn't the answer. You should comfort the victim while literally teaching the aggressor a lesson rather than "teaching" with fists.

ZiPPy2157

because God doesn't look away from you for what you choose he gave you that right,

Nope, he made me this way. If you've got a problem with it take it up with father dearest. Because, as science has long proven, it's natural and indeed just as healthy as heterosexuality. Biological, if you want to get specific. I listed links before, and I can list even more. I haven't even addressed homosexual and bisexual animals. So really, when you're against God's creation, you should reflect upon the reasons for it. Particularly when you get to the end of my post.

It's also lying to say you're not homosexual when you're made that way. As I said before, the evidence is clear, it's natural and biological and not a choice:


Sexuality, Choice, & Biology
- Wikipedia on Sexual Orientation
- Gay men respond differently to pheromones
- Gay Men's Brains Found Different
- The Homosexual Brain
- APA on Homosexuality
- Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
- Homosexuality-A Natural Cause?
- A Difference in Hypothalmic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men(study published in Science, 253: 1034-1037, 1991)
- NewScientist.com: Pheromone attracts straight women and gay men
- For Gay Men, an Attraction to a Different Kind of Scent
- Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

Homosexuality in Animals
- Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity
- Salon: The Fabulous Kingdom of Gay Animals
- Homosexual Behaviors in Animals
- National Geographic: Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
- Wikipedia: Homosexuality in Animals
- Seattle Times Article
- Male penguins raise adopted chick
- More Fruit Flies: Females

Reparative Therapy Doesn't Work
- Estimates of Success
- “Ex-Gay” Consumer Fraud Division
- Ex-Gay Watch: News and Analysis of Ex-Gay Politics
- The Ex Files: Not Your Usual Gays
- Facts About Changing Sexual Orientation
- Critique of Spitzer's "Ex-Gay" Study
- Besen: What is the point of the ex-gay industry - Citing researching showing great harm and no good.
- Homosexual Reparative Therapy Does Not Work & Other Statements of the Obvious

ZiPPy2157

and like a father should he love's you uncondtionaly.

Except he doesn't love unconditionally, as you're arguing. Rather, in order for him to accept me, I have to live loveless and unhappy for my life. And by the by, there is plenty of research backing this claim up. Depression rates and such are legitimately higher and all that horrible stuff. Any God who would punish pure love is neither compassionate nor a loving God.

Now, on to the grand finale!

ZiPPy2157

and like a father should he love's you uncondtionaly. But I warn you. When this world burn's you will be left to swim in the lake. You all still have a choice Repent or Sin.

You act as if your version of God and Christianity is the correct one, but yet there's just as many Christians saying you're going to hell for not acting as they do, partaking in their rituals, or acting as they should, etc.

Here's a news flash, not all Christians believe Thank God for homosexuals. In fact, there's a lot of evidence contrary to this belief. Here's just a few sites on the matter:

Homosexuality and The Bible
- Does the Bible Condemn Homosexuality? An Interview with Dr Reverend Cheri DiNovo.
- What the Bible says and means about same-sex behavior
- What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality
- The Bible and Homosexuality
- The Six Bible Passages Used To Condemn Homosexuals
- Homosexuality and the Bible, The Conclusion - Part of a series of entries.
- Acting Out Loud › Is Everyone Included? › Lesbians & Gay Men - A hub for more reading materials and sites

Thank God homosexuality isn't a sin!
I have even more resources as well, including a semi-long thesis going into the same ideas the above sites cover.

To claim a monopoly of understanding on the religion is rather arrogant to say the least. It reeks of the same Protestant vs. Catholic vs. Orthodox vs Coptic vs Aryan vs etc. behavior that has caused nothing but strife.

On top of that, it reveals one very important thing; choice. It's ironic that in a debate regarding homosexuality it's the not the homosexuals that have the choice in the matter. You made a choice to be Christian, and you continue to do so to this day. You also make the choice to be protestant, catholic, whatever. You also made the choice of what you believe to be a sin. All options are equal, because they all use the same scriptures. You don't practice snake handling like the Holy Ghost people for a reason. You chose not to believe that is the right behavior, just as much as they chose the reverse.

Ultimately, with avoiding a whole other complex debate, this ends with you, the believer, empowered to decide what is right. It's not in God's hands, it's in your hands. So I have to ask, why do you want homosexuality to be a sin? Evidence has been provided stating contrary, biblical evidence at that. It's been proven it's biological and in fact natural. It exists in nature, therefore it is natural. God created it. If you can decide pollution is sinful or not, between thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not kill, between accepting the natural world and ignoring it when reality presents contradictory to personal belief evidence, you can decide on this too. So what is it? Is your take on God accepting and compassionate? Or alienating and perhaps undeserving of worship for God's un-compassionate nature?

For me, I'm going to continue to believe in the unconditional, accepting love of the Christian God I believe in. One that loves me, all of me, and accepts me for how he made me. No one is going to take that away from me, for if I rot in the deepest pits of hell, who I love, who I grow old with, and who I spend evenings with chatting on the couch, will never, ever factor into my soul's demise.  

[ZiPPy2157]

Garek Maxwell

ZiPPy2157

hmm..I can very well understand where you come from honest.
and I have to say you don't have to be gay to go thought soical torment, I my self have been to 6 diffent phyc ward's. Now I wasn't in a stright jacket or nothing, but I have been labeled hated discreminated just as much as you could of been if not more. My file's tell anyone who read them that I am emotional disterbed by the age of 25 I am exspected to have homcidal or sudical tendacys. I grew up fighting not for the reason you did, but all the same they called me diffen't I have never been to a normal school. I have been to juvilanile twice the first for nearly killing my mom's Bf for hiting her, The 2nd for nearly killing my mom for the abuse she caused me. I tend not to look back at my past I like to go blank and forget. I am only 16 and I Realize 2 Thing's. This world is corrupt and hipcrital and we are the cause for it. I Think a bit more then your avgrage 16 year old does I have done plenty of drug's and seen more then you could imagain a kid seeing. I have watched people get shot, stabbed, and muitalted. This world is a crual place and

Made red for a red herring.

I feel bad for you, of course, and there are people worse off, but that doesn't change anything. It's like if someone says 10 people were raped and murdered in an alley, then the other replies "well, thousands are dying of starvation in country X".

Separate issues. Red Herring. It's especially heinous when it's used as an excuse to ignore the other serious problem.

ZiPPy2157

I realize it more then anyone that something's arent a choice, I dont go around hateing people for that. in fact if I heard about anyone messing with my gay friend's Ide ******** them up

That's nice, but violence isn't the answer. You should comfort the victim while literally teaching the aggressor a lesson rather than "teaching" with fists.

ZiPPy2157

because God doesn't look away from you for what you choose he gave you that right,

Nope, he made me this way. If you've got a problem with it take it up with father dearest. Because, as science has long proven, it's natural and indeed just as healthy as heterosexuality. Biological, if you want to get specific. I listed links before, and I can list even more. I haven't even addressed homosexual and bisexual animals. So really, when you're against God's creation, you should reflect upon the reasons for it. Particularly when you get to the end of my post.

It's also lying to say you're not homosexual when you're made that way. As I said before, the evidence is clear, it's natural and biological and not a choice:


Sexuality, Choice, & Biology
- Wikipedia on Sexual Orientation
- Gay men respond differently to pheromones
- Gay Men's Brains Found Different
- The Homosexual Brain
- APA on Homosexuality
- Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
- Homosexuality-A Natural Cause?
- A Difference in Hypothalmic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men(study published in Science, 253: 1034-1037, 1991)
- NewScientist.com: Pheromone attracts straight women and gay men
- For Gay Men, an Attraction to a Different Kind of Scent
- Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

Homosexuality in Animals
- Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity
- Salon: The Fabulous Kingdom of Gay Animals
- Homosexual Behaviors in Animals
- National Geographic: Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
- Wikipedia: Homosexuality in Animals
- Seattle Times Article
- Male penguins raise adopted chick
- More Fruit Flies: Females

Reparative Therapy Doesn't Work
- Estimates of Success
- “Ex-Gay” Consumer Fraud Division
- Ex-Gay Watch: News and Analysis of Ex-Gay Politics
- The Ex Files: Not Your Usual Gays
- Facts About Changing Sexual Orientation
- Critique of Spitzer's "Ex-Gay" Study
- Besen: What is the point of the ex-gay industry - Citing researching showing great harm and no good.
- Homosexual Reparative Therapy Does Not Work & Other Statements of the Obvious

ZiPPy2157

and like a father should he love's you uncondtionaly.

Except he doesn't love unconditionally, as you're arguing. Rather, in order for him to accept me, I have to live loveless and unhappy for my life. And by the by, there is plenty of research backing this claim up. Depression rates and such are legitimately higher and all that horrible stuff. Any God who would punish pure love is neither compassionate nor a loving God.

Now, on to the grand finale!

ZiPPy2157

and like a father should he love's you uncondtionaly. But I warn you. When this world burn's you will be left to swim in the lake. You all still have a choice Repent or Sin.

You act as if your version of God and Christianity is the correct one, but yet there's just as many Christians saying you're going to hell for not acting as they do, partaking in their rituals, or acting as they should, etc.

Here's a news flash, not all Christians believe Thank God for homosexuals. In fact, there's a lot of evidence contrary to this belief. Here's just a few sites on the matter:

Homosexuality and The Bible
- Does the Bible Condemn Homosexuality? An Interview with Dr Reverend Cheri DiNovo.
- What the Bible says and means about same-sex behavior
- What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality
- The Bible and Homosexuality
- The Six Bible Passages Used To Condemn Homosexuals
- Homosexuality and the Bible, The Conclusion - Part of a series of entries.
- Acting Out Loud › Is Everyone Included? › Lesbians & Gay Men - A hub for more reading materials and sites

Thank God homosexuality isn't a sin!
I have even more resources as well, including a semi-long thesis going into the same ideas the above sites cover.

To claim a monopoly of understanding on the religion is rather arrogant to say the least. It reeks of the same Protestant vs. Catholic vs. Orthodox vs Coptic vs Aryan vs etc. behavior that has caused nothing but strife.

On top of that, it reveals one very important thing; choice. It's ironic that in a debate regarding homosexuality it's the not the homosexuals that have the choice in the matter. You made a choice to be Christian, and you continue to do so to this day. You also make the choice to be protestant, catholic, whatever. You also made the choice of what you believe to be a sin. All options are equal, because they all use the same scriptures. You don't practice snake handling like the Holy Ghost people for a reason. You chose not to believe that is the right behavior, just as much as they chose the reverse.

Ultimately, with avoiding a whole other complex debate, this ends with you, the believer, empowered to decide what is right. It's not in God's hands, it's in your hands. So I have to ask, why do you want homosexuality to be a sin? Evidence has been provided stating contrary, biblical evidence at that. It's been proven it's biological and in fact natural. It exists in nature, therefore it is natural. God created it. If you can decide pollution is sinful or not, between thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not kill, between accepting the natural world and ignoring it when reality presents contradictory to personal belief evidence, you can decide on this too. So what is it? Is your take on God accepting and compassionate? Or alienating and perhaps undeserving of worship for God's un-compassionate nature?

For me, I'm going to continue to believe in the unconditional, accepting love of the Christian God I believe in. One that loves me, all of me, and accepts me for how he made me. No one is going to take that away from me, for if I rot in the deepest pits of hell, who I love, who I grow old with, and who I spend evenings with chatting on the couch, will never, ever factor into my soul's demise.

Zech shakes his head. "Read the bible sometime's start in john new testament and read on. Like I said in the beginning im not being judgemental of you, I am only saying the thing's that I know and belive to be true. Sorry, but I guess we will both find out in the end and you may be right. Though god to me is hope and he is real rather you want to accpet him or not and the thing about the father is right. He does love you and like most parent's the thing's they ask may seem unfair and you might not understand the meaning of it all, but the greatest thing's in life don't come easy. Rome wasn't build in a day, but please when you are asked refuse the mark. Goodbye I hope your ranting has made you feel better.  

[[-Erik-]]

 

[Zuri-kai]

Garek Maxwell

ZiPPy2157

because God doesn't look away from you for what you choose he gave you that right,

Nope, he made me this way. If you've got a problem with it take it up with father dearest. Because, as science has long proven, it's natural and indeed just as healthy as heterosexuality. Biological, if you want to get specific. I listed links before, and I can list even more. I haven't even addressed homosexual and bisexual animals. So really, when you're against God's creation, you should reflect upon the reasons for it. Particularly when you get to the end of my post.

It's also lying to say you're not homosexual when you're made that way. As I said before, the evidence is clear, it's natural and biological and not a choice:

Sorry, Garek, but I have to argue this one. I think Zippy is going about the explanation of the Christian view the wrong way. God does love unconditionally, it's more that he can't be in the presence of sin (well more rather sin can't be in the presence of God, so rather than appearing and suddenly vaporizing anything remotely sinful he acts from a distance).

The logic of homosexuality as a sin (outside it's obvious stating in Leviticus) is that God made us with the intent of heterosexual pairing. To willing act outside of that intent is like saying "I know you made me this way, but I like this better." Thus disrespecting God (our father) and breaking the 5th commandment. I can't say for 100% certainty if homosexuality is biological or not. Science may say that it is now, but science has been wrong in the past and it's not guaranteed to be right now, so I don't put much stock in what science says.

I know a lot of homosexuals don't like Christianity because of the anti-homosexuality it teaches, and there's really nothing I can do about that. Based on the scripture readings I've done and my personal studies I don't condone homosexuality, but I don't pull a Westboro Baptist and go all Nazi Germany on the homosexual community. I think what Christian's need to realize is there's nothing we can really do outside of fervent prayer. People are going to believe what they want to and act as liberally as they care. We can voice opinions but to shove something down someone's through only leads to violent and disgusting regurgitation, and nobody likes that. xp

[-Erik-]

Lol, I made this face when I read the initial debate. XD  

[[-Erik-]]

Let's go back to me being straight and Garek not.

This is what is in his mind all the time.



I am on the right, he's on the left.  

[Zuri-kai]

[-Erik-]

Let's go back to me being straight and Garek not.

This is what is in his mind all the time.



I am on the right, he's on the left.

*roflmao's* That just made my night. XDD  

[[-Erik-]]

Zuri-kai

[-Erik-]

Let's go back to me being straight and Garek not.

This is what is in his mind all the time.

IMAGE GOES HERE

I am on the right, he's on the left.

*roflmao's* That just made my night. XDD

Mine too... we're so simple minded ._.  

[Zuri-kai]

[-Erik-]

Zuri-kai

[-Erik-]

Let's go back to me being straight and Garek not.

This is what is in his mind all the time.

IMAGE GOES HERE

I am on the right, he's on the left.

*roflmao's* That just made my night. XDD

Mine too... we're so simple minded ._.

Hey, simple minded people are generally very happy people. 3nodding