|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:33 pm
CrabappleRed Juuyonbi_No_Peko_=3 Not Kishi style, but could happen in one of those crazy plot-twists. in the last page, Hidan was still under Kage Mane...so it's gonna be a little harder for him to break out. True. And am I the only one weirded out that Hidan is caught so easily and not able to break free? Last time, Shikamaru had to strain just to make him walk a few steps. Now he making his dance and prance and attack Kakuzu without any problem. Kage Nui VS Kage Mane Kage Mane no Jutsu was his first shadow move. If this was measured in points, we could call it a level 1 move. He then learned other jutsu; the next main shadow move I recall is Kage Kubi Shibari no Jutsu. That move we can call level 2. The difference between level one and level two, hypothetically, can be measured twofold. Level 2 is twice as demanding in chakra, stamina, and concentration as level 1 (HYPOTHETICALLY; these are clearly bullshit numbers). Later he learns a new move. It could have been any time in the 2.5 year time shift but I think it's safe to say it was at least a year later due to the complexity of the move... though I ALSO have theories that when he LEFT, someone claimed his dad was training him. He MAY have learned Kage Nui the day Naruto left. Either way, when playing an RPG, experience goes up exponentially. Level 3 is not 3 times stronger than level 1. It is actually 9 times stronger, I believe, in this case, 9 times as demanding. Again, these are just numbers. Assuming that the newer techniques are harder and more demanding in chakra, stamina, concentration, and in some cases, constitution, it is easily said that Shikamaru struggled with Hidan the first time for three reasons: 1. He was using Kage Nui, a more advanced technique, 2. Hidan was pushing back with his chakra and 3. Shikamaru was a significant distance away from his opponent. Kage Mane, with the chakra blades, TEMPORARILY extended his range. He was also using a simple move. The move was being sustained by the blades. He also had time to practice this before hand, rather than a desperate move at the last minute as was when he first attacked Hidan. This time, he knew more what to expect.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:33 pm
Shikalee Captain Verd Shikalee I think you, Verd, just don't want Yamato to die. A lot of good manga end in tragedy. I think it's VERY possible that all the previous generation dies, leaving rookie and chuunin level behind (Naruto and Iruka's generation). I'm agreeing with Attila on this one. The manga is really optimistic, and since Yamato's a pretty angst-less, fleshless character so far, it wouldn't really inspire any sympathy from the crowd. Even I wouldn't be touched. Hell, the only reason I like Sasuke is because he was such a brown noser when he was a kid. Like I just said, overall, the manga is actually rather depressing. The anime is optimism on crack. The manga has gone really downhill since the chuunin exams and even before then there was tragedy with Lee and Neji's horrible past and Gaara's tales of his assassination and Naruto's horrible fate as well as Zabuza and Haku dying with Sasuke's near death experience along with the tragedy with Inari's family. I will challenge you to post all the happy memories you can and I guarantee I can post more negative ones. The characters all have sad, dramtic pasts, because many of them realize, by way of Naruto, that there is hope. Lee has hope of being a ninja despite not being able to use chakra. Neji learns that he can make his own fate, and he's not doomed to spend his life as a servant. Gaara realizes that people can care for him and love him. Haku dies saving Zabuza, which wa shis wish, and Zabuza realized he cared for Haku. Inari, although there was tragedy in his family, learned that there are heroes, and people need to stick up for themselves. The reason Naruto is the hero in the story is because despite his many setbacks, he can still pull through and have confidence in himself. That's why it's an optimistic manga.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:36 pm
Captain Verd Shikalee Captain Verd Shikalee Captain Verd CrabappleRed And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Sakura would make an interesting Hokage. It just seems like she's the one most likely to still be standing after all the dust setles, and be bitter over how it really shouldn't have been her. Besides, compared to the other ninjas her age, she seems kind of... ahead. Not in terms of rank, but she's an amazing medic, and was the smartest graduating ninja of her class. Even though her Sasori fight was mega lame, you could really see how much more she could do, and how much she could improve. She probably wouldn't be first choice for the position, but neither was Tsunade. I'd agree if Shino, Shikamaru and Sasuke weren't ridiculously smart. Sasuke was ranked number one, Sakura was second to him in their school. But Neji was ranked number one in his academy, and is also considered a "genius." Sakura VS Gaara mentally is also pretty tough to compare. Despite his past actions, Gaara is very wise and rather smart. Sakura, just like Shikamaru, lacks in wisdom. Shino exceeds in both wisdom and intelligence, probably making him the smartest of the rookies. He doesn't get much credit. Sasuke was the best ninja in the class, but Sakura had the best test scores or something like that. Iruka or Kakashi said it once. Anyways, you could see it during the chuunin exams. Sakura could answer all of the test questions herself, whereas Sasuke couldn't get them without cheating. Shino had to cheat as well. Wrong. He beat Sakura. Sakura did get the answers for the quiz in the chuunin exam. But she did not beat him in the academy graduation. Sasuke's behavior and immediate motivation to study dramatically declined when he graduated. As an attempt to impress him, Sakura kept up her studious habits. Your one instance of proof, I believe, is hardly enough to draw a conclusive answer. If you can find this quote, then that would be concrete proof. Shino is smart; smart enough to know that cheating is easier than doing the work. He chose the logical answer. That did not mean he could not do the problems. I didn't say she beat Sasuke. If you notice, I said Sasuke was the best ninja in the class, but Sakura was the smartest. Sasuke has more skills than she does, so he graduates ahead of her. But in terms of the math and calculations, Sakura beats Sasuke. That's why she has better chakra control than he does. Sasuke's behavoir/habits/motivation remained the same. His goal wasn't to graduate, but to kill Itachi. It might have seemed that way because the enemies became harder, but Sasuke had the same motivation when he graduated that he did when he was still in school. Your assumptions, I think, are even less conclusive. Nope, didn't notice. I got the names mixed up. As you've said to me many times, intelligence cannot be measured. How can you decide who is smarter? biggrin Chakra control is not a math thing, by the way. No it didn't. xd Wow, you need to read the old chapters again. He changed quite suddenly and severely. Even moreso after Orochimaru's bite. There is no such thing as less conclusive when both answers are non conclusive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:40 pm
Captain Verd Shikalee Captain Verd Shikalee I think you, Verd, just don't want Yamato to die. A lot of good manga end in tragedy. I think it's VERY possible that all the previous generation dies, leaving rookie and chuunin level behind (Naruto and Iruka's generation). I'm agreeing with Attila on this one. The manga is really optimistic, and since Yamato's a pretty angst-less, fleshless character so far, it wouldn't really inspire any sympathy from the crowd. Even I wouldn't be touched. Hell, the only reason I like Sasuke is because he was such a brown noser when he was a kid. Like I just said, overall, the manga is actually rather depressing. The anime is optimism on crack. The manga has gone really downhill since the chuunin exams and even before then there was tragedy with Lee and Neji's horrible past and Gaara's tales of his assassination and Naruto's horrible fate as well as Zabuza and Haku dying with Sasuke's near death experience along with the tragedy with Inari's family. I will challenge you to post all the happy memories you can and I guarantee I can post more negative ones. The characters all have sad, dramtic pasts, because many of them realize, by way of Naruto, that there is hope. Lee has hope of being a ninja despite not being able to use chakra. Neji learns that he can make his own fate, and he's not doomed to spend his life as a servant. Gaara realizes that people can care for him and love him. Haku dies saving Zabuza, which wa shis wish, and Zabuza realized he cared for Haku. Inari, although there was tragedy in his family, learned that there are heroes, and people need to stick up for themselves. The reason Naruto is the hero in the story is because despite his many setbacks, he can still pull through and have confidence in himself. That's why it's an optimistic manga. I'd say it's EASILY arguable that hope is just about equal with dismay and terror in the lives of the ninja.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:42 pm
What I meant by that was Sakura is more calculating. She understands exactly how much chakra she needs to do a jutsu, and can use just that. Sasuke can't do that, because he's not as clever as Sakura is.
Please read what I said. Sasuke's ambitions were the same after he graduated as they were when he was still in school. Byt the time they entered the chuunin exams, the way he conducted himself as well as his goals had changed drastically. However, when they were first meeting Kakashi, Sasuke has the same drive to kill Itachi, no distractions, as he did when he was in school.
EDIT: The entire theme going with Naruto is that there is hope. Naruto wants to be Hokage, but he was stamped as the worst ninja in the village, hated by everyone, etc. However, he has hope, and because of that he is able to come through for everyone. When Kishimoto gives people dramatic backstories, it's to show that even in the worst situations, where people give up and turn to darker things, there is always something to look up to. So far, he's used Naruto as a tool to show the other characters why they have things to hope for. The depressing subjects are just tools to emphasize the message of hope.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:05 pm
Captain Verd What I meant by that was Sakura is more calculating. She understands exactly how much chakra she needs to do a jutsu, and can use just that. Sasuke can't do that, because he's not as clever as Sakura is. Please read what I said. Sasuke's ambitions were the same after he graduated as they were when he was still in school. Byt the time they entered the chuunin exams, the way he conducted himself as well as his goals had changed drastically. However, when they were first meeting Kakashi, Sasuke has the same drive to kill Itachi, no distractions, as he did when he was in school. EDIT: The entire theme going with Naruto is that there is hope. Naruto wants to be Hokage, but he was stamped as the worst ninja in the village, hated by everyone, etc. However, he has hope, and because of that he is able to come through for everyone. When Kishimoto gives people dramatic backstories, it's to show that even in the worst situations, where people give up and turn to darker things, there is always something to look up to. So far, he's used Naruto as a tool to show the other characters why they have things to hope for. The depressing subjects are just tools to emphasize the message of hope. That is all a personal interpretation, and bares no fact. It is inarguable. End of goddamn discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:04 pm
Actually, Sakura being a smart little lady is a fact, but whatever. End of discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:11 pm
Captain Verd Actually, Sakura being a smart little lady is a fact, but whatever. End of discussion. Yet you snap back. surprised Good one. Last words are just oodles of fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:44 am
Shikalee attilathefun Shikalee I think you, Verd, just don't want Yamato to die. A lot of good manga end in tragedy. I think it's VERY possible that all the previous generation dies, leaving rookie and chuunin level behind (Naruto and Iruka's generation). I sort of wish the jounin would all die--it'd advance Kishimoto's overall theme, which seems to be KIDZ POWER!!121 or something. However, the whole comic is very optimistic; therefore I think it's pretty unlikely that he'd kill Yamato, especially given that he has very little background. It's possible, of course--and if Yamato suddenly gets a lot of backstory crammed into one or two chapters, I'll put money on him kicking the bucket. xd Haha. It would be interesting. Not really. Overall it's very depressing. All the characters have serious burdens or issues for the most part. It's only optimistic because fans don't take it seriously, or haven't experienced for themselves what it feels like... It's true that they all have problems, but it seems to me that one of the major themes is that they can overcome them and succeed--e.g. Naruto's apparent dumbassery, Neji's past, (I'd say Sasuke but I'm wondering if he's meant to show that crossing over to THE DARK SIDE is not a good way to succeed, so I'll leave him out,) Gaara's gross insanity, etc. It would be depressing (and I'd like it more heart ) if fewer people actually got what they wanted. For example, if Neji went through all that family-hating and learned to care about his uncle/cousins and be okay with his curse seal, and then for some reason Hiashi had to kill him with it, that would be depressing. xd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:53 am
attilathefun Shikalee attilathefun Shikalee I think you, Verd, just don't want Yamato to die. A lot of good manga end in tragedy. I think it's VERY possible that all the previous generation dies, leaving rookie and chuunin level behind (Naruto and Iruka's generation). I sort of wish the jounin would all die--it'd advance Kishimoto's overall theme, which seems to be KIDZ POWER!!121 or something. However, the whole comic is very optimistic; therefore I think it's pretty unlikely that he'd kill Yamato, especially given that he has very little background. It's possible, of course--and if Yamato suddenly gets a lot of backstory crammed into one or two chapters, I'll put money on him kicking the bucket. xd Haha. It would be interesting. Not really. Overall it's very depressing. All the characters have serious burdens or issues for the most part. It's only optimistic because fans don't take it seriously, or haven't experienced for themselves what it feels like... It's true that they all have problems, but it seems to me that one of the major themes is that they can overcome them and succeed--e.g. Naruto's apparent dumbassery, Neji's past, (I'd say Sasuke but I'm wondering if he's meant to show that crossing over to THE DARK SIDE is not a good way to succeed, so I'll leave him out,) Gaara's gross insanity, etc. It would be depressing (and I'd like it more heart ) if fewer people actually got what they wanted. For example, if Neji went through all that family-hating and learned to care about his uncle/cousins and be okay with his curse seal, and then for some reason Hiashi had to kill him with it, that would be depressing. xd I think I've made it pretty clear. You make a valid point. But so do I. It's the reader's choice whether or not to see it as an optimistic story or not. Take Hamlet for example. Written as a tragedy. People claim, however, that it couldn't have ended any other way; that the deaths of most of the cast members really was the only answer. Hundreds of years people have argued over it. And I don't think Naruto was EVER dumb. I think he was always immature and clumsy, which he is starting to grow out of... Except the fact that Neji is now a Jounin. Not only does he probably have the skill to kill Hiashi, but he has the back up to save him in his time of need. I think that would be more stupid than depressing... He had to kill Neji? Maybe if he thought Neji was a threat, which he is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:04 am
Shikalee Except the fact that Neji is now a Jounin. Not only does he probably have the skill to kill Hiashi, but he has the back up to save him in his time of need. I think that would be more stupid than depressing... He had to kill Neji? Maybe if he thought Neji was a threat, which he is. OHO MY GOD boy will I argue about Neji. I'm not saying he couldn't kill Hiashi--I'm sure it's possible. But if Hiashi wanted to kill Neji, he would only need to activate the curse seal, and there would be nothing Neji could do about it. Now, I don't know if the curse seal can actually kill, but supposing it can, and Hiashi had some good reason (I can't think of one), that'd be depressing, IMO. Alternately, if Sasuke finally got to fight Itachi again, and this time, for whatever reason, Itachi killed him. Or if Gaara's council decided he was too dangerous and needed to be imprisoned/sealed for the rest of his life, despite the progress he'd made. Or if Naruto got so close to being Hokage and then they gave it to someone else because he was a danger to the village. (...*imagining Naruto jumping over holes a la Mario and being all, "I'm going to be Hokage no matter what!" and then he falls in a hole. GAME OVER.*)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:10 pm
attilathefun Shikalee Except the fact that Neji is now a Jounin. Not only does he probably have the skill to kill Hiashi, but he has the back up to save him in his time of need. I think that would be more stupid than depressing... He had to kill Neji? Maybe if he thought Neji was a threat, which he is. OHO MY GOD boy will I argue about Neji. I'm not saying he couldn't kill Hiashi--I'm sure it's possible. But if Hiashi wanted to kill Neji, he would only need to activate the curse seal, and there would be nothing Neji could do about it. Now, I don't know if the curse seal can actually kill, but supposing it can, and Hiashi had some good reason (I can't think of one), that'd be depressing, IMO. Alternately, if Sasuke finally got to fight Itachi again, and this time, for whatever reason, Itachi killed him. Or if Gaara's council decided he was too dangerous and needed to be imprisoned/sealed for the rest of his life, despite the progress he'd made. Or if Naruto got so close to being Hokage and then they gave it to someone else because he was a danger to the village. (...*imagining Naruto jumping over holes a la Mario and being all, "I'm going to be Hokage no matter what!" and then he falls in a hole. GAME OVER.*) that last comment was pretty random D=
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:41 pm
attilathefun OHO MY GOD boy will I argue about Neji. I'm not saying he couldn't kill Hiashi--I'm sure it's possible. But if Hiashi wanted to kill Neji, he would only need to activate the curse seal, and there would be nothing Neji could do about it. Now, I don't know if the curse seal can actually kill, but supposing it can, and Hiashi had some good reason (I can't think of one), that'd be depressing, IMO. The curse seal has to be able to kill the branch members. It's used as a way to control them and prevent Itachi-wannabes. Giving it anything less than the ability to kill is impractical. Neji also explicitly states that it's used as both a means to cause pain and kill. However, there are always ways around such things. . . a good dose of poison, some hired help, unexpected attacks. . . really, the creative ninja could easily find a way around it. Which is why I find Hiashi's imediat appology uppon discovering Neji's strength so suspicious. It seemed way too much like a "zomg, strong/uber smart kid who hates up! Quick, suck up, suck up!" Of couse, this is a load of baloney, since Hiashi is listed as being an honorable man in his stats, and Naruto being the show that it is, he probably means his appology. But it's fun to prentend. twisted
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:48 am
...Hiashi sees through your bedroom walls.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:09 am
attilathefun Shikalee Except the fact that Neji is now a Jounin. Not only does he probably have the skill to kill Hiashi, but he has the back up to save him in his time of need. I think that would be more stupid than depressing... He had to kill Neji? Maybe if he thought Neji was a threat, which he is. OHO MY GOD boy will I argue about Neji. I'm not saying he couldn't kill Hiashi--I'm sure it's possible. But if Hiashi wanted to kill Neji, he would only need to activate the curse seal, and there would be nothing Neji could do about it. Now, I don't know if the curse seal can actually kill, but supposing it can, and Hiashi had some good reason (I can't think of one), that'd be depressing, IMO. Alternately, if Sasuke finally got to fight Itachi again, and this time, for whatever reason, Itachi killed him. Or if Gaara's council decided he was too dangerous and needed to be imprisoned/sealed for the rest of his life, despite the progress he'd made. Or if Naruto got so close to being Hokage and then they gave it to someone else because he was a danger to the village. (...*imagining Naruto jumping over holes a la Mario and being all, "I'm going to be Hokage no matter what!" and then he falls in a hole. GAME OVER.*) I will probably lose to a Nejitard but... xd Curses affect will. Neji has a very strong will. I feel he'd kill him, head throbbing and eyes bleeding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
