Do "Wiccans" have the right to be called Wiccan?

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

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I can see these are valid arguments that I can understand. I'm going to try to find a coven, if I don't find one that relates closest to my beliefs, I'll continue my path of Eclectic Paganism strongly based on Wicca.

Fair enough.
I've heard it said before by a Wiccan in the M&R that a coven doesn't usually just fall into your lap. She lives in Canada and easily drive about 4 hours I think round-trip to attend her coven. Sometimes being in the service of the Lord and Lady of the Isles requires you to make sacrifices of time like that 3nodding .

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Thank you Scott Cunningham and Raymund Buckland for confusing the hell out of me!!! scream

It's okay; all of us fell into that trap at the beginning *comfort*
Lewellyn, while providing some interesting stuff, really needs to get on the ball and correctly label their books.  

[RubyLight]

Thank you for your input. I'm going to do a some soul searching to find what's right for me. Whether the result is Wicca or not is up to the gods.
It is so hard to distinguish reliable sources in the study of paganism (unless it's digustingly obvious BS). Could you reccomend some reliable texts on Wicca and other forms of Paganism?
I'm trying to find a medium between faith and form.  

[too2sweet]

Wicca Reading List  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

As an aside, Ruby - there's nothing specifically wrong with the works of Cunningham or Buckland (or similar). I may not agree with their philosophies, but as they are their books are decent texts. The only problem is that they label the religion they speak about as "Wicca", when it is not. Both are initiates, but neither stuck around with their coven for very long. It's decent outer-court info.

(I do have an issue with Cunningham's ideas about "self-initiation" but I like and respect the man so I can set that aside.)  

[Lotus Poem]

Quote:

As an aside, Ruby - there's nothing specifically wrong with the works of Cunningham or Buckland (or similar). I may not agree with their philosophies, but as they are their books are decent texts. The only problem is that they label the religion they speak about as "Wicca", when it is not. Both are initiates, but neither stuck around with their coven for very long. It's decent outer-court info.

(I do have an issue with Cunningham's ideas about "self-initiation" but I like and respect the man so I can set that aside.)

Buckland also sites himself as a source which is arrogant at best. Like with most mass market pagan books I would advise checking any facts given against secular materials when possible. It can be frustrating but I have found it enlightening in ways far beyond the spiritual. Just remember that authors are human and especially when given the freedom to reach large numbers of people with their personal philosophy they can lapse into preachiness, bias, and selective writing. That's why most pagans will suggest reading and learning as much as you can from as many sources as you can and applying your own judgement and common sense.  

[RubyLight]

I have come to terms with my current study/practice and no longer refer to myself as Wiccan. I'm an Eclectic Pagan at the moment. xd

So, then books by Cunningham and Buckland would be considered Ecclectic Witchcraft? I really wish that Lewellyn would label their material correctly. sweatdrop  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Quote:

So, then books by Cunningham and Buckland would be considered Ecclectic Witchcraft? I really wish that Lewellyn would label their material correctly. sweatdrop

But correct labeling doesn't make Lewellyn the monies!!! rolleyes .
They could be labeled eclectic witchcraft/eclectic neo-paganism/Neo-Wicca (although even Neo-Wicca tends to be a sticking point).  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Quote:

I have come to terms with my current study/practice and no longer refer to myself as Wiccan. I'm an Eclectic Pagan at the moment. xd

So, then books by Cunningham and Buckland would be considered Ecclectic Witchcraft? I really wish that Lewellyn would label their material correctly. sweatdrop

And those are some of the best Llewellyn has to offer. At least Cunningham and Buckland don't insist Wicca is Celtic and then claim the Celts had pumpkins and potatoes.

It's good to be an eclectic Pagan ^_^ My faith and practice are influenced by Neo-Wicca and forms of religious witchcraft as well. It's actually quite liberating. There's so much more you can draw from.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Ruby Light: Here; this is a set of questions posted by scorplett in the M&R. scorplett is an Alexandrian HPS and is a good source on things. She quotes this as a standard list of questions that covens use as a guideline for seekrs:

Quote:

If you can honestly answer YES to most of these questions then our way of working craft may be for you. This path is not for every pagan, witch, or magic worker. You should also be prepared to explain your answers and your understanding of the following questions.


* You are over 21.
* You are are capable of committing time and energy to learning and to prioritizing that.
* You honor both Goddess and God and seek dynamic polarity in your rituals.
* You are not ashamed of your mind, body, or spirit.
* You tend toward the mystical and are intuitive.
* You prefer lineage and tradition over eclecticism and politically correct, feel-good rites.
* You can live with learning the mysteries over time, not instantaneously.
* You can be both a leader and a follower.
* You are ready to be involved in a group with a history and high expectations.
* You are ready to commit years, even decades to this path.
* You are not a collector of initiations.
* You do not join groups and then expect to alter its system, tradition, language, philosophies.
* You are unique and intelligent but not a flaming oddball.
* You have a healthy attitude toward sexuality and are neither a prude nor a libertine.
* You keep your promises and do not break oaths, ever.
* You can be silent even when sorely tempted to speak of what you know to correct others.
* You are ready to make an old Craft tradition an important part of your life.
* You feel it's important to observe the turning of the wheel of the year. You practice magic and observe the seasons, and know when the moon is waning or waxing.
* You read a lot of books.
* You are healthy.
* You are not addicted to drugs or alcohol,or have other psychological problem without acknowledgment of it through responsible means.
* You don't whine, make excuses, or pass the buck.
* You are a capable adult, capable of meeting normal responsibilities of life.
* You want to work in a tradition primarily rooted in Celtic ways.
* You are willing to train for a year and a day or more and can accept hierarchy as necessary to development.
* You seek structure in your spiritual life but you can also be spontaneous and inventive.
* You have learned about other neopagan traditions or systems, reincarnation, tarot, runes, astrology, psychometry, metaphysics, energy projection, healing, sacred dance, etc.
* You enjoy reading the mythology and folk tales of other countries, in particular, the stories of the six Celtic nations.
* You want to work with both sun and moon energy.
* You are ready for a deepening of the soul
* You have recently experienced a heartfelt calling to Wicca.

Just thought this might be useful to you wink  

[RubyLight]

Thanks. mrgreen  

[Aryain Flames]

doistu

My contribution...though small unlike the others...might be of some use smile .

Wicca I believe is a valid religion but Neo-wicca isn't Wicca...If it was we wouldn't need the neo bit would we?

Personally, to avoid such subjects like this coming up when I'm invovled, I simply say I'm a witch who follows wiccan principles.

huh. i might use that argument next time some one asks me...  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Yeah, I think a lot of people cling to the word because they're not sure of any other way to describe who they are and what they do. That's fair enough, in some ways, because you don't want to go on and on. People like having a short-hand, a label, to describe what they do... with one, you can more easily identify people who share your faith.

Anyway. I was going to say, there are things you can say instead of saying you are Wiccan. You can say your faith is "Wicca-influenced", that you "draw from Wicca", that you're "inspired by Wicca", that your faith "includes elements of Wicca" and so on.

There are still people who will get snotty and say "well if it's based on Wicca but you don't know what Wicca is, how can it be based on Wicca?!" but seriously, there comes a stage when you have to ******** LET IT GO. Yeah, there will always be sentences that you feel aren't phrased particularly right. You know what they mean, so DROP IT. stressed
Sorry. There are some people who will go on and on and don't seem to want people to have a name for their religion at all. It ain't fair, I tells ya rolleyes  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Sanguina-chan

Anyway. I was going to say, there are things you can say instead of saying you are Wiccan. You can say your faith is "Wicca-influenced", that you "draw from Wicca", that you're "inspired by Wicca", that your faith "includes elements of Wicca" and so on.

There are still people who will get snotty and say "well if it's based on Wicca but you don't know what Wicca is, how can it be based on Wicca?!" but seriously, there comes a stage when you have to ******** LET IT GO. Yeah, there will always be sentences that you feel aren't phrased particularly right. You know what they mean, so DROP IT. stressed

sweatdrop sweatdrop .
I do find that that question is handy at times though. I find that it is handy to use when someone is insisting that their practice is Wicca because it is based on "Wiccan principles." The phrasing makes them stop for a minute (sometimes) and think about what they're actually saying.
Personally, if I'm at least under the impression that a person has an idea of what Wicca actually is and says that their practice is Wicca-influenced then I know they're talking about incorporating outer-court information in their beliefs. It's the types I mentioned in the previous paragraph that make me pull out that phrase.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Ultraviolett1127

Sanguina-chan

Anyway. I was going to say, there are things you can say instead of saying you are Wiccan. You can say your faith is "Wicca-influenced", that you "draw from Wicca", that you're "inspired by Wicca", that your faith "includes elements of Wicca" and so on.

There are still people who will get snotty and say "well if it's based on Wicca but you don't know what Wicca is, how can it be based on Wicca?!" but seriously, there comes a stage when you have to ******** LET IT GO. Yeah, there will always be sentences that you feel aren't phrased particularly right. You know what they mean, so DROP IT. stressed

sweatdrop sweatdrop .
I do find that that question is handy at times though. I find that it is handy to use when someone is insisting that their practice is Wicca because it is based on "Wiccan principles." The phrasing makes them stop for a minute (sometimes) and think about what they're actually saying.
Personally, if I'm at least under the impression that a person has an idea of what Wicca actually is and says that their practice is Wicca-influenced then I know they're talking about incorporating outer-court information in their beliefs. It's the types I mentioned in the previous paragraph that make me pull out that phrase.

I wasn't talking about you wink You're awesome.

There is definitely a line. You'll get people who say "I'm a pantheist who worships the earth and I hold the sabbats etc therefore I am influenced by Wicca". And y'know, if the first book on Paganism they picked up was based on Wicca, then in a way they kinda are influenced by Wicca. Inspired by it anyway wink However, their faith doesn't really resemble Wicca at all. If you were to rephrase "Neo-Wicca" to be "Wicca-Influenced Paganism" or whatever, it wouldn't apply to our pantheist because she wasn't Neo-Wiccan.

....that made sense in my head....
Goddamn mercury retrograde.  

[`Blaise]

Sure, you can call yourself a Wiccan. You can call yourself whatever you want.

But whether or not you fit the definition is another story.