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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:19 am
tassan Britomartis-the-Valiant tassan I want to say One thing. You have been discussing this topic days passed and yet you are to no conclusion. Instead i would say go wear hijab and experience why Islamic girls are perfered to wear hijab. But i know FOR YOU (ratri_cat) there are SO MANY hindrances waiting.
(and i am not saying to wear hijab while you are training but the remaining time.)I imagine many wear it because it makes them feel religious, or perhaps it's like the holy underwear. o.o But why not go all out with a burqa? Some one has said there are things which do not have answer but you will know when you do it and feel yourself the difference. its not the question right now that you are wearing a hijab or burqa currently the question is ARE YOU WEARING it? either of them; Then comes thing of how you are wearing it and probably its burqa or hijab that you are wearing. Ever heard of the placebo effect?
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:25 am
Burqa? I saw 1 person with that...
{In a airport in England} rofl rofl
I don't think people are sure about hijab! And people are soo afraid to wear hijab, soo how should they wear burqa?
And what was the reason again?
Warren't it something like everything in a woman is private, exept the face?
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:51 am
Placebo effect? Is that the same as you explained? The effect of the enviroment at a person?
Let me just state one point, and I agree with Tassan this has been going on for days, but I guess whenever I say this point everyone ignores it!
----> Allah made everything in the islamic society to keep us away from problems, we can see what is happening right now, teenage pregnancy, and underage alcohol, and people dying because of people driving while drunk, drugs, psycological disorders, aids, the wars everywhere! That isn't a way of living, frankly, taking my class as a level, we can't just stay quiet without a teacher in the class, we just do whatever we want. If there isn't a teacher at class, then we'll just paint on the walls, pour pepsi down on the floor, dance and sing and just open the music out loud, we wouldn't leave anything bad without doing it! Isn't that correct? The same thing goes for a society, Allah made those rules to make order, pouring pepsi isn't what exactly we're going to do if Allah didn't make those rules, but I'm saying the problems I listed above is happening because we're not following the rules. You're saying, then why do we have to wear hijab, he could've just forbade those kind of relationship! No, because Allah something bad MIGHT happen he said everything that leads to that is forbidden. That doesn't mean that me as a muslim I'm not allowed to talk with a guy until I'm married! We talk about proper subjects! And for those who say: We're just friends! Then honey, you're just lying at yourself, I know it, you know it, everyone in this world knows it, that there's nothing such as friendship between female and male kind. Allah knows that it is like that. Based on his all mighty knowlege, he put those rules, he didn't make up those rules because that's the way he wants, he's the most merciful! And whatever he wants shall happen, but because he's merciful, he's giving us more chances to fix our mistakes, but instead, we do more mistakes!
Wow, that was long! Sorry people!
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:39 pm
What I mean by placebo effect is that most of the time for most people, if they believe something will have a certain effect, they will feel that effect. A good example of this is the man who died in a refrigerator that wasn't turned on. And yet he was huddled in the corner as if her were cold.
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 am
Britomartis-the-Valiant What I mean by placebo effect is that most of the time for most people, if they believe something will have a certain effect, they will feel that effect. A good example of this is the man who died in a refrigerator that wasn't turned on. And yet he was huddled in the corner as if her were cold. So you're saying that this is only placebo effect? No, I'm smart enough to know that this is going to happen. We just don't want to open up to ourselves and start thinking with honesty. I know many of my friends ( Girls ) That were friends with guys, and at the end, the guys confessed that they loved her, and she thought that they only had friendship. But this is a matter of believing, I guess you'll never know it unless you try it.
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:26 pm
Mini_Angel_1994 Britomartis-the-Valiant What I mean by placebo effect is that most of the time for most people, if they believe something will have a certain effect, they will feel that effect. A good example of this is the man who died in a refrigerator that wasn't turned on. And yet he was huddled in the corner as if her were cold. So you're saying that this is only placebo effect? No, I'm smart enough to know that this is going to happen. We just don't want to open up to ourselves and start thinking with honesty. I know many of my friends ( Girls ) That were friends with guys, and at the end, the guys confessed that they loved her, and she thought that they only had friendship. But this is a matter of believing, I guess you'll never know it unless you try it. I've had few guy friends in real life. One in particular was a close friendship; we played together all the time and nobody objected. I was a toddler at the time. I think all this separation is a bit too much. I don't think being close friends with guys (for a girl at least) after puberty is a good thing, but I don't think people should completely separate themselves. Both extremes are unhealthy. I find this topic really amusing because we have the same discussions on a forum for people who had been home schooled (most of whom are fundamental Christians). The responses range from: Quote: The natural state of men and women is to draw close to one another with sex as the primary culmination. It is a good thing. It is a good thing within context [marriage]. Understanding how powerful this force is is the reason for these sometimes legalistic rules. That is why I would forbid time alone together, close friendships, etc. Yes, superficial, monitored, not too long, not too specific is the way to go especially if the young people are not in a position to marry or definitely have ruled the other person out. In the context of finding a spouse, the getting to know each other is better done after the preliminaries of finding out if this person is a beliefs, situational match. For those who don't trust this analysis please know that you are compatible with more people sexually and in personality than you are with beliefs and all those "preliminaries". Sex is what makes up the difference in the personality compatibility area. To: Quote: I think by forbidding friendships is simply stunting the ability for any relationship to ever grow. It's totally against what the Bible preaches. It's full of relationships. Our whole purpose is to glorify Christ. We do this by our love for one another, now how can you possibly show love to one another if you're not allowed to be friends with one another. It simply just doesn't make sense. We've also had tons of threads on issues like birth control. Sorry for the bunny trail, I just can't help but find it was amusing that the many of the same issues are discussed. xD And I love this quote from a young married woman on that topic (sorry it's long): Quote: Also, let me say that are different levels of emotional involvement and every relationship you have in this life will be at one of those levels. Just because I am "emotionally involved" with someone, doesn't mean it is bad, impure, or inappropriate. I am emotionally attached to every person in my life at different levels and in different ways. Only with my husband do I reach the deepest level of that attachment and involvement. To have a relationship with no emotion involved is pointless. Relationships are for our benefit and our enjoyment and if we cannot involve our hearts out of fear of doing something "bad" then what's the point? many people choose to have no emotional involvement with anyone and they are the most miserable people I know. Emotions are not the problem. Wounds produced by lies and spiritual pain is the problem and the root cause of any emotional issue. If I "fall in love" with very guy that talks to me, it is an indication of a deeper heart issue. Simply having no relationships is not the answer and will never solve the problem. It is only putting a band-aid on a festering wound. It also gives us a sense of false security because it causes us to believe that we have gained control when , in fact, the issue is still there and ready to spring out of nowhere and defeat us at anytime. So the question "should guys and girls be friends" is not a black-and-white, yes-or-no question. There is too much involved and to much to consider.
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:27 am
I totally disagree. I agree when you said that if I fall in love with every guy I talk with then it's an emotional problem, your heart is set to choose only one person, yes I believe that way too. Now, let me say, you left all the creatures in the world and you believe that making friendship with the opposite sex is the best? You can make friendship with girls, and let me tell you, it's more comfortable, cause I frankly can't say everything in front of a guy, that's number one, number two, the human nature between girls and boys is to attract, that's human nature, and we should act based on it. It's not something to go against of, and it's nothing to change, this is who we are! And I really think that this is ended, but you're trying to change the truth which will never end. There's an arabian saying : Not everytime things go safe! I know that you won't fall in love with every guy you talk with, love doesn't come out of attract, I think if you know a person, and they're kind, they love people, and stuff like that, isn't that true? I mean, it's not like you're going to fall in love with a criminal or something. So, based on that, love is a different thing which I think comes after marriage or maybe during the engagement. But the term attract, is to be attracted to someone beautiful, or who you think who is beautiful. Then that drags dating, and that drags bad things. Frankly, I'm not going to let myself fall into fire!
You're going to say self control, but really, does anyone have self control? Why then do we eat when we say I want to have a diet, why then are we distracked when we are studying, why does everything that needs commitment is so hard and a human tends to not do it? That's because his self control is created to be weak, and every human is a sinner. But then, I'm not going to lock myself into my room to provent anything from coming near to me, I go out with my friends, I go out with my mother, I go out shopping. But that doesn't necesseraly mean that I need to talk to a boy, it's really not that important!! I talk with my male classmates, but that doesn't mean to get close to them! You said it yourself, it's not appropriate to get a close relationship with boys. When I was young, I played catch with boys, but now, knowing what might happen, knowing that the chances are high, I won't play with them. I would study with them, but getting a close kind of relationship won't do for me. biggrin
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:45 am
Mini_Angel_1994 ----> Allah made everything in the islamic society to keep us away from problems, we can see what is happening right now, teenage pregnancy
Teenage pregnancy is easily preventable with contraception and the morning after pill, and if you do get pregnant, you kill the fetus with abortion. it doesn't matter if you have a partner or are raped.
Every year around 750,000 teenagers will get pregnant in the USA. Most of this is due to an inadequate sex education...parents seem to get the ridiculous concept that if kids learn about sex that they will become promiscuous. rolleyes
That depends on what country you are in. many countries, starting with Canada, have an age limit of 18 for drinking. Down here in the US it's 21.
Any how, I have found that religions that do have alcohol as part of ceremonies and does not condemn alcohol as "source of evil" have lower rates of abuse. I'm talking about people who do regularly participate in their religion, not just a follower in name.
When alcohol is banned, it creates more problems. Look at the Prohibition Act in the USA. People banned it because they thought exactly the way Muslims do. What happened? crime rate went up as well as mobs forming, creating the concept of organized crime and making far more dangerous than your average robbery. Mini_Angel_1994 psycological disorders, aids, the wars everywhere!
How does your god prevent psychological disorders? How do you prevent it in your society?
Is praying to your god going to prevent a malicious virus from abductig your system?
Is praying to your god really going to stop people from fighting wars? more people die in "the name of god" than for any other reason, including alcohol!Mini_Angel_1994 Allah made those rules to make order, pouring pepsi isn't what exactly we're going to do if Allah didn't make those rules, but I'm saying the problems I listed above is happening because we're not following the rules.
I understand that rules are necessary to create a sense of order; I would be a liar if I disagreed, but saying that all those actions can possibly be a direct result of not following your islamic rules sounds a bit...ethnocentric in my opinion. Mini_Angel_1994 That doesn't mean that me as a muslim I'm not allowed to talk with a guy until I'm married! We talk about proper subjects!
wow. it's like talking to someone in the victorian times. I'm so surprised that people uphold these archaic concepts... Mini_Angel_1994 And for those who say: We're just friends! Then honey, you're just lying at yourself, I know it, you know it, everyone in this world knows it, that there's nothing such as friendship between female and male kind.
That's ridiculous. The few males I hang out with are nothing like what you are proposing. It's sad that your god is also in this state of mind as well, stuck in an ancient ideal while the rest of the world has moved on, acknowledging that guys have biological lust for girls and that people can be friends with the opposite gender without being in bed together.
...wow ratri, breaking up this was a good idea xp
All I can say is, judging from what I've read and how some Muslims talk about rape, is that wearing this head covering provides an excuse for males. Saying that your beauty, your figure will tempt men into sex and engaging in premarital sex [or molestation] because you are not clothed properly seems to be more of a poor excuse for males [especially Muslim ones that believe that if you are uncovered to be asking for it] to act like pigs, and for it all to be the blame of the woman, because she was shown.
hmph. This is one of many reasons I hate patriarchal religions.
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:05 pm
1. If people LIKE YOU, stopped talking about sex, soo that no teenagers knew what it was, then that problem would be solved wink
2. Make your script a li'l larger please 3nodding Are u sure? in Denmark it's 18 years for BUYING ALCOHOL, i don't know the law for drinking alcohol... Proberly not kids 3nodding Even if there is a 18 years old law, pll in the age of 11 begin to drink it!
3. Those people, have their own GOOD reasons! Maybe they are a li'l crazy
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Zaaki 1. If people LIKE YOU, stopped talking about sex, soo that no teenagers knew what it was, then that problem would be solved wink
How would not talking about sex stop this? Sex is a natural biological function in life. It happens whether or not you talk about it. Otherwise humans would not reproduce and die out. Zaaki 2. Make your script a li'l larger please 3nodding Are u sure? in Denmark it's 18 years for BUYING ALCOHOL, i don't know the law for drinking alcohol... Proberly not kids 3nodding Even if there is a 18 years old law, pll in the age of 11 begin to drink it!
Usually if you're old enough to buy the alcohol, you're old enough to drink it.
And where on earth did you come to such a conclusion?
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:40 am
1. That's what makes it soo common stare lol
2. In Denmark rofl rofl
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:45 am
Zaaki 1. That's what makes it soo common stare lol
I still don't understand why you have a problem with it.
The drinking age is 16. You can buy alcohol at 16, but you can't purchase alcohol in bars at 18. And they can't drive until 18, or something like that.
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:30 am
Yea 18, but what's about that? razz Alcohol accidents? They don't care razz And the population grows soo fast anyways...
And Denmark is that place where most "statastically" young people drink alcohol. And some girl also told me she coulden't wait till she was 18, cause then she could buy her own liquoer...
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:06 pm
Zaaki Yea 18, but what's about that? razz Alcohol accidents? They don't care razz And the population grows soo fast anyways...
...what?
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:10 pm
Zaaki 1. If people LIKE YOU, stopped talking about sex, soo that no teenagers knew what it was, then that problem would be solved wink Actually my parents never gave me the talk and since I was home schooled, my "school" didn't have any sex education. The result: I figured it out on my own. And people with your raging hormones probably figure it out pretty fast. I put the pieces together out of curiosity only (no raging hormones for me). However, I had no idea what rape was until I was 16. That's not a good position to be in. And Miniangel. The reason why friendships are allowed between girls and guys is because we don't have arranged marriage. Sorry, but most people here want to marry someone they like and know versus a complete stranger. It probably leads to stronger marriages. Why do you consider falling in love bad? Didn't God create us with that capacity?
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