Firearm n00bs: Post your links to them here.

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

Requiem in Mortis

Das Rabble Rouser

Requiem in Mortis

As sad as I am to say this, me.

For not expecting the Thompson to be as heavy as it was.

That's not much of a noob thing unless you expected it to be completely weightless.

No, I expected it to weigh about half of what it did. It was the heaviest of the five SMGs I got to check out at the Military Museum (second heaviest was the PPSh, followed by the MP40, M3 and Sten).

This part kind of surprises me since I always thought a Sten would weight more or about the same as an MP40 or a Grease gun.

I think the Sten was the simplest of the group. It was pretty much a tube with a simple barrel, a fixed wire stock, and a handful of stamped steel parts inside. The damn thing was pretty much an AR lower with a barrel on it.

But yeah, the Thompson is a ******** beast. Every problem was solved with more weight. It kicks too much. Add weight to the gun! It has too much muzzle rise. Add a weight to the barrel! It shoots too fast. Add weight to the bolt! It runs dry too quickly. Add a six-pound drum!  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Requiem in Mortis

Das Rabble Rouser

Requiem in Mortis

As sad as I am to say this, me.

For not expecting the Thompson to be as heavy as it was.

That's not much of a noob thing unless you expected it to be completely weightless.

No, I expected it to weigh about half of what it did. It was the heaviest of the five SMGs I got to check out at the Military Museum (second heaviest was the PPSh, followed by the MP40, M3 and Sten).

This part kind of surprises me since I always thought a Sten would weight more or about the same as an MP40 or a Grease gun.

I think the Sten was the simplest of the group. It was pretty much a tube with a simple barrel, a fixed wire stock, and a handful of stamped steel parts inside. The damn thing was pretty much an AR lower with a barrel on it.

But yeah, the Thompson is a ******** beast. Every problem was solved with more weight. It kicks too much. Add weight to the gun! It has too much muzzle rise. Add a weight to the barrel! It shoots too fast. Add weight to the bolt! It runs dry too quickly. Add a six-pound drum!

so they basically ******** themselves when making the switch from the 1921 over to the 1928 thompsons.  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Requiem in Mortis

Das Rabble Rouser

Requiem in Mortis

As sad as I am to say this, me.

For not expecting the Thompson to be as heavy as it was.

That's not much of a noob thing unless you expected it to be completely weightless.

No, I expected it to weigh about half of what it did. It was the heaviest of the five SMGs I got to check out at the Military Museum (second heaviest was the PPSh, followed by the MP40, M3 and Sten).

This part kind of surprises me since I always thought a Sten would weight more or about the same as an MP40 or a Grease gun.

I think the Sten was the simplest of the group. It was pretty much a tube with a simple barrel, a fixed wire stock, and a handful of stamped steel parts inside. The damn thing was pretty much an AR lower with a barrel on it.

But yeah, the Thompson is a ******** beast. Every problem was solved with more weight. It kicks too much. Add weight to the gun! It has too much muzzle rise. Add a weight to the barrel! It shoots too fast. Add weight to the bolt! It runs dry too quickly. Add a six-pound drum!

so they basically ******** themselves when making the switch from the 1921 over to the 1928 thompsons.

From what I remember, all they really did was weight the bolt to retard cyclic rate, which made the gun more controllable.  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Requiem in Mortis

Das Rabble Rouser

Requiem in Mortis

As sad as I am to say this, me.

For not expecting the Thompson to be as heavy as it was.

That's not much of a noob thing unless you expected it to be completely weightless.

No, I expected it to weigh about half of what it did. It was the heaviest of the five SMGs I got to check out at the Military Museum (second heaviest was the PPSh, followed by the MP40, M3 and Sten).

This part kind of surprises me since I always thought a Sten would weight more or about the same as an MP40 or a Grease gun.

I think the Sten was the simplest of the group. It was pretty much a tube with a simple barrel, a fixed wire stock, and a handful of stamped steel parts inside. The damn thing was pretty much an AR lower with a barrel on it.

But yeah, the Thompson is a ******** beast. Every problem was solved with more weight. It kicks too much. Add weight to the gun! It has too much muzzle rise. Add a weight to the barrel! It shoots too fast. Add weight to the bolt! It runs dry too quickly. Add a six-pound drum!

MP40 and the Grease Gun were nothing more than stamped steel parts. The STEN justs looks ******** heavy because the tube looks like a milled out pipe.

So why didn't the Cutts Compensator not work?  

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Requiem in Mortis

Das Rabble Rouser

Requiem in Mortis

As sad as I am to say this, me.

For not expecting the Thompson to be as heavy as it was.

That's not much of a noob thing unless you expected it to be completely weightless.

No, I expected it to weigh about half of what it did. It was the heaviest of the five SMGs I got to check out at the Military Museum (second heaviest was the PPSh, followed by the MP40, M3 and Sten).

This part kind of surprises me since I always thought a Sten would weight more or about the same as an MP40 or a Grease gun.

I think the Sten was the simplest of the group. It was pretty much a tube with a simple barrel, a fixed wire stock, and a handful of stamped steel parts inside. The damn thing was pretty much an AR lower with a barrel on it.

But yeah, the Thompson is a ******** beast. Every problem was solved with more weight. It kicks too much. Add weight to the gun! It has too much muzzle rise. Add a weight to the barrel! It shoots too fast. Add weight to the bolt! It runs dry too quickly. Add a six-pound drum!

MP40 and the Grease Gun were nothing more than stamped steel parts. The STEN justs looks ******** heavy because the tube looks like a milled out pipe.

So why didn't the Cutts Compensator not work?

Nope, just rolled sheet metal. The thing was probably as simplistic as one can actually make a combat-effective firearm.

Because if you make the end of the barrel heavy enough, it's got enough mass to not move any more. And it did compensate some, but the majority of its effectiveness was sheer weight.  

[Private Sanders]

Isn't the Sten really unsafe? I heard it goes off if you bump it hard.  

[Requiem ex Inferni]

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.  

[Private Sanders]

That would scare the s**t out of me.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Requiem in Mortis

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.

theres a lot of very safe open bolt guns.

an UZI will not fire no matter how much it's dropped or how hard you slam it on the ground.

the grip safety locks the whole weapon until someone has it firmly in their hands  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Jackie Flores

Isn't the Sten really unsafe? I heard it goes off if you bump it hard.

it probably will, the sten is one of the cheapest most ghetto submachineguns ever devised with it's ease of production so oversimplified that resistance groups with limited materals and tools can build them.

not sure if the sten has a safety feature of any kind incorporated into it,as that would make it more complex to build.  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

Requiem in Mortis

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.

theres a lot of very safe open bolt guns.

an UZI will not fire no matter how much it's dropped or how hard you slam it on the ground.

the grip safety locks the whole weapon until someone has it firmly in their hands

I wouldn't trust them very far, personally. You ever smacked the butt of an empty/open AR on the ground? If there's no bolt catch engaged with the magazine (as in loaded or no mag), it's possible to jar the carrier down into the buffer tube just a smidge, but it's enough to disengage the hold-open and drop the bolt. Not every AR does it, and some do it more readily than others, but I used to use it in competition as a shortcut when dropping into prone for a rapid-fire string. My assigned loaner rifle, before I got my own, just needed a firm tap.

Point being, if that can happen with an AR, I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen with other guns as well, and with a firing pin fixed to the bolt face, it could potentially spell disaster.  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Requiem in Mortis

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.

theres a lot of very safe open bolt guns.

an UZI will not fire no matter how much it's dropped or how hard you slam it on the ground.

the grip safety locks the whole weapon until someone has it firmly in their hands

I wouldn't trust them very far, personally. You ever smacked the butt of an empty/open AR on the ground? If there's no bolt catch engaged with the magazine (as in loaded or no mag), it's possible to jar the carrier down into the buffer tube just a smidge, but it's enough to disengage the hold-open and drop the bolt. Not every AR does it, and some do it more readily than others, but I used to use it in competition as a shortcut when dropping into prone for a rapid-fire string. My assigned loaner rifle, before I got my own, just needed a firm tap.

Point being, if that can happen with an AR, I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen with other guns as well, and with a firing pin fixed to the bolt face, it could potentially spell disaster.

Why was the UZI phased out? Seemed like a very good design for a T gun.  

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Requiem in Mortis

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.

theres a lot of very safe open bolt guns.

an UZI will not fire no matter how much it's dropped or how hard you slam it on the ground.

the grip safety locks the whole weapon until someone has it firmly in their hands

I wouldn't trust them very far, personally. You ever smacked the butt of an empty/open AR on the ground? If there's no bolt catch engaged with the magazine (as in loaded or no mag), it's possible to jar the carrier down into the buffer tube just a smidge, but it's enough to disengage the hold-open and drop the bolt. Not every AR does it, and some do it more readily than others, but I used to use it in competition as a shortcut when dropping into prone for a rapid-fire string. My assigned loaner rifle, before I got my own, just needed a firm tap.

Point being, if that can happen with an AR, I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen with other guns as well, and with a firing pin fixed to the bolt face, it could potentially spell disaster.

Why was the UZI phased out? Seemed like a very good design for a T gun.

Subguns in general have started being phased out everywhere in favor of [sub-]carbines and shotguns, and the Uzi was Israeli. Israel LOVES to be on the cutting edge as much as we do, and they have the bonus of the Russian DGAF mindset. I think the Uzi was invented in the late 40's, to mid 50's? No later than '59, definitely.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Recon_Ninja_985

Requiem in Mortis

That's a design problem with open-bolt weapons in general, I think- if jarred with enough force the bolt will slide forward.

theres a lot of very safe open bolt guns.

an UZI will not fire no matter how much it's dropped or how hard you slam it on the ground.

the grip safety locks the whole weapon until someone has it firmly in their hands

I wouldn't trust them very far, personally. You ever smacked the butt of an empty/open AR on the ground? If there's no bolt catch engaged with the magazine (as in loaded or no mag), it's possible to jar the carrier down into the buffer tube just a smidge, but it's enough to disengage the hold-open and drop the bolt. Not every AR does it, and some do it more readily than others, but I used to use it in competition as a shortcut when dropping into prone for a rapid-fire string. My assigned loaner rifle, before I got my own, just needed a firm tap.

Point being, if that can happen with an AR, I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen with other guns as well, and with a firing pin fixed to the bolt face, it could potentially spell disaster.

the bolt hold open of an AR and the safety mechanism of an UZI are 2 TOTALLY different things.

an AR's bolt hold open is a tiny piece that is designed to drop with no pressure against it until it is held up by the follower of a magazine or the BCG moves backward. even patting the stock lightly could send the BCG forward.


UZI's safety mechanism can only be disengaged by a firm grip. when there is little or no pressure on the grip safety the entire weapon is locked up once the bolt is to the rear. the trigger will do nothing and the bolt is blocked from moving. think of it as a 1911 but with even more safeties going for it.

I dont see the point in comparing 2 weapons that are mechanically incomparable and operating on 2 entirely different principles. with different sets of safeties too.

UZI has 2 manual safeties if you count the grip safety, and a number of internal safeties.
an AR has 1 external safety and no internal safeties that I can think of because that's all it needs.

it's just the difference between open vs closed bolt, each has their problems and solutions.
both are generally equally safe to field and fire, and drop when made right

I prefer closed bolt because firing open bolt guns feels kind of awkward and foreign to me. but i'm not going to discredit the system when I know it works just fine with the right improvements.  

[Das Rabble Rouser]

Fresnel

I think the Uzi was invented in the late 40's, to mid 50's? No later than '59, definitely.

Well it obviously wasn't developed before the late 40's since Israel was established in 48. xd

According to worldguns.ru it was developed in 49 and was manufactured starting in 51.

EDIT: according to them the micro uzi has a ROF of 1250 rpm and a capacity of only 20 rounds. xd At least the other variants could hold up to 32 rounds. The Micro is the smallest variant, has the highest ROF, and the smallest capacity.