that sure is awesome , Islam is always the true religion .
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:10 pm
To Muslims, Islam is the truth. Islam is the right religion for all.
But to non-Muslims, they don't think the same. We cannot simply point out statement without knowledge and proof.
Harrotz
Offline
divineseraph
Offline
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:51 pm
Shinigami Vayth
oh, by YHWH, seraph meant Allah? well, Allah has 99 names, like The Most Merciful, The Most Powerful, etc (for more of the names, you can see this or Zaki's thread). they're like.. tittle. Allah is the Most Merciful, the Most Merciful is the Most Powerful, and the Most Powerful is Allah. It's not like they're separated.
By Allah you mean YHWH.
Allah is a non-specific word meaning God. The NAME of this god is YHWH. And those names are specific parts of YHWH that are separated out. This is also done in the Sephirot, and in hinduism through the multiple gods representing the aspects of the single Brahman, and in christianity with the three parts- the thinking, the active, and the speaking if you will, with more subtle differences of course.
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:28 pm
Well, if what you mean by Yahweh is the three in one (including the three of them), then I can confidently say they're not same. I don't know if it's one the three (Father), I'm still learning about it these past days.
Beside, I won't call my God with other name, despite whatever you think about yours and mine. It may be the same, or it maybe different, I don't know. but we believe in Tawhid, One God, and we have a very important sentence, "Laa ilaaha illallah", "There's no God except Allah", and not "There's no God except God" (which change the sentence into "Laa ilaaha illa ilaa". Someone that understand Arabic, please correct me if I typed it wrong) or "There's no God except ". It also become a part of the first of five pillar of Islam.
Shinigami Vayth Crew
Newbie Hunter
Offline
divineseraph
Offline
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:37 pm
Shinigami Vayth
Well, if what you mean by Yahweh is the three in one (including the three of them), then I can confidently say they're not same. I don't know if it's one the three (Father), I'm still learning about it these past days.
Beside, I won't call my God with other name, despite whatever you think about yours and mine. It may be the same, or it maybe different, I don't know. but we believe in Tawhid, One God, and we have a very important sentence, "Laa ilaaha illallah", "There's no God except Allah", and not "There's no God except God" (which change the sentence into "Laa ilaaha illa ilaa". Someone that understand Arabic, please correct me if I typed it wrong) or "There's no God except ". It also become a part of the first of five pillar of Islam.
And how does this conflict with anything? Changing a name does not change a reality. Your God is known as Allah and God and YHWH, but this does not make it three things.
That one God can have as many faces as it may like. The Brahman did. Buddha did. The Christian understanding of your very YHWH does. Who is to say they are ALL not one?
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:01 am
ok im christian so heres the thing some people are willing to learn about other religions like me but others are to arrogant to even try to listen to anything else about other religions mk? bye
Pheeewww.... I learn lots from this thread.... Technically I'm a muslim. Well, I'm Indonesian.... the country with highest population of muslim. But they are moderate muslim as I am.
To say for this thread and the posts... I read lots of views from the muslims and the Christians about Islam. And actually, maybe I still don't have the iman (belief) upon God. I'm still in the searching process. Hopefully I will find the true TRUTH and follow it.
Hey, I'm 19 years old and I'm muslim by tradition not by my own will. But then I learned the Islamic values and I found how beautiful they are.
I want to really search the reality about theism, so I'd love to have the chance and capacity to do it. But well, it's very ashamed that the culture here is taboo for person to questions his/her beliefs upon religion. It is not easy to learn the whole Islamic teaching and the Christianity's. The most easy way is to find it through the holy books (muslims beliefe to 4 holy books- Quran, Injil, Taurat, and Zabur - I don't know the English versionemo). But it is hard to 'really' study them because for many times translation could mislead ppl in perceive something. So, that's why I'm still in the lazy state of study them. I should not being like this.
There are lots of things that are new to me. Like the death penalty in syariah law. Cause my Islamic lecturers said, "when violence (war) made in the sake of goodness, still, you don't have the right to taking life given by Allah s.w.t." So, I never heard that death penalty is allowed in Islamic perspective for what have been taught to me. I don't know was it because I'm living in the moderate Islam country?
And from my Islamic teaching teacher back then when I was in high school. She told me that everything you have done in your life, will be judged in the afterlife. But when you have been punished for what you have been done in your life, you will not receive the punishment for that sins in the afterlife. I guess the point is to get you the 'service' of what you've 'paid'. From the above statement, I want to say something about the death penalty for those who converted their religion from Islam (betraying Islam). Since when I was sitting in my primary school, I was taught that muslim only have one chance to be a muslim again. So, when you turn Christian (just an example, no offense) you can still be a muslim again. But that's the last time you are a muslim. If you change your religion again. You can't never be a muslim again. The point is that when you are not a muslim, you cannot be saved. As I know this is the believe for most of religions in the world. You will be burn forever in the hell (their hells) when you are not their member. So I guess, there's no point for killing ppl when they betrayed their religion.
And for homosexuals, I don't really know. But I guess they are prohibited to do the homosexuality and do 'it' only with their muhrim (opposite gender and are legal for them). So such activities are prohibited and the penalty for that sins will be conducted in the afterlife or in the Earth is up to the condition...
Waaaah... that was a long post.... 4laugh Well, that's my perspective...
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:14 am
divineseraph
Shinigami Vayth
Well, if what you mean by Yahweh is the three in one (including the three of them), then I can confidently say they're not same. I don't know if it's one the three (Father), I'm still learning about it these past days.
Beside, I won't call my God with other name, despite whatever you think about yours and mine. It may be the same, or it maybe different, I don't know. but we believe in Tawhid, One God, and we have a very important sentence, "Laa ilaaha illallah", "There's no God except Allah", and not "There's no God except God" (which change the sentence into "Laa ilaaha illa ilaa". Someone that understand Arabic, please correct me if I typed it wrong) or "There's no God except ". It also become a part of the first of five pillar of Islam.
And how does this conflict with anything? Changing a name does not change a reality. Your God is known as Allah and God and YHWH, but this does not make it three things.
That one God can have as many faces as it may like. The Brahman did. Buddha did. The Christian understanding of your very YHWH does. Who is to say they are ALL not one?
Well, they may be one, but at least they will share the same knowledge. but I found the Son and the Father have different knowledge, as the Son isn't Omniscient like the Father, like what I found in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 about the judgement day.
Beside,you said it already that Son isn't Father even though both are God. No matter what, the word "isn't" and the difference in what the know make them a different being even though you say "one". While Allah is one, that's my point that stated our God are different.
I'm not disrespecting your God or anything, but I just want to say that ours are different. Just like you and I live in different place, like you and I believe in different religion, and you and I pray to different God. That's all, no offense.
@blondiehotline: well, if you're talking about me, I'm always listening to others. I ask my christian friend first about this (trinity, and her view of God) before replying the post. But since she can't give me a satisfying answer, then I'm stay with my opinion. Maybe you can give me a satisfying answer about this instead.. thanks..^^
@Amers: Finally!! my fellow Indonesian!! ^^
Shinigami Vayth Crew
Newbie Hunter
Offline
divineseraph
Offline
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:42 am
Shinigami Vayth
divineseraph
Shinigami Vayth
Well, if what you mean by Yahweh is the three in one (including the three of them), then I can confidently say they're not same. I don't know if it's one the three (Father), I'm still learning about it these past days.
Beside, I won't call my God with other name, despite whatever you think about yours and mine. It may be the same, or it maybe different, I don't know. but we believe in Tawhid, One God, and we have a very important sentence, "Laa ilaaha illallah", "There's no God except Allah", and not "There's no God except God" (which change the sentence into "Laa ilaaha illa ilaa". Someone that understand Arabic, please correct me if I typed it wrong) or "There's no God except ". It also become a part of the first of five pillar of Islam.
And how does this conflict with anything? Changing a name does not change a reality. Your God is known as Allah and God and YHWH, but this does not make it three things.
That one God can have as many faces as it may like. The Brahman did. Buddha did. The Christian understanding of your very YHWH does. Who is to say they are ALL not one?
Well, they may be one, but at least they will share the same knowledge. but I found the Son and the Father have different knowledge, as the Son isn't Omniscient like the Father, like what I found in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 about the judgement day.
Beside,you said it already that Son isn't Father even though both are God. No matter what, the word "isn't" and the difference in what the know make them a different being even though you say "one". While Allah is one, that's my point that stated our God are different.
I'm not disrespecting your God or anything, but I just want to say that ours are different. Just like you and I live in different place, like you and I believe in different religion, and you and I pray to different God. That's all, no offense.
@blondiehotline: well, if you're talking about me, I'm always listening to others. I ask my christian friend first about this (trinity, and her view of God) before replying the post. But since she can't give me a satisfying answer, then I'm stay with my opinion. Maybe you can give me a satisfying answer about this instead.. thanks..^^
@Amers: Finally!! my fellow Indonesian!! ^^
This is why I consider the Son the be a prophet, but a prophet still as a touch of God.
All things are one, technically. At the most subtle level, there is no distinction between things. But to your point specifically, no, the Son is not the Father. Like how your ideal of Allah's Judgement is not the same as His Mercy- They act separately, but towards the same goal.
I worship every God and one God. The importance is the creative spark and the will, not what name we call it or which prophet we prefer.
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:53 am
dTranquility
To Muslims, Islam is the truth. Islam is the right religion for all.
But to non-Muslims, they don't think the same. We cannot simply point out statement without knowledge and proof.
Islam has the proof and the truth.
Quran explains, DNA Working, people who believe in the Evolution Theory, should open a page in the Quran where it says that ; We made u into blood prop, then we gave u bones etc..
Everything is stated in the Quran ..
So People have no excuse Saying... "Yea well we need proff emo "
Jin Saga
Offline
Shinigami Vayth Crew
Newbie Hunter
Offline
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:34 am
divineseraph
Shinigami Vayth
Well, they may be one, but at least they will share the same knowledge. but I found the Son and the Father have different knowledge, as the Son isn't Omniscient like the Father, like what I found in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 about the judgement day.
Beside,you said it already that Son isn't Father even though both are God. No matter what, the word "isn't" and the difference in what the know make them a different being even though you say "one". While Allah is one, that's my point that stated our God are different.
I'm not disrespecting your God or anything, but I just want to say that ours are different. Just like you and I live in different place, like you and I believe in different religion, and you and I pray to different God. That's all, no offense.
@blondiehotline: well, if you're talking about me, I'm always listening to others. I ask my christian friend first about this (trinity, and her view of God) before replying the post. But since she can't give me a satisfying answer, then I'm stay with my opinion. Maybe you can give me a satisfying answer about this instead.. thanks..^^
@Amers: Finally!! my fellow Indonesian!! ^^
This is why I consider the Son the be a prophet, but a prophet still as a touch of God.
All things are one, technically. At the most subtle level, there is no distinction between things. But to your point specifically, no, the Son is not the Father. Like how your ideal of Allah's Judgement is not the same as His Mercy- They act separately, but towards the same goal.
I worship every God and one God. The importance is the creative spark and the will, not what name we call it or which prophet we prefer.
as you said, Son is prophet. And for us, being a prophet, no matter how much God made him special, still can't be put on God level. It's not like God Himself reincarnate into Son and spread the teaching. That's the main different between the two teaching.
Of course, the name doesn't matter if they really refer to the same one. I can call Zaki or The_Pathan, and the guild owner will respond. But if I call him Tassan or Rania, then he won't answer, right? If I pray to Allah with a name that not His, then will He answer my prayer?
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:44 am
But the word is not an extension of God? I thought that was the idea of a prophet.
And why not? God doesn't come with a language. If you mean "Divine power" then you mean "Allah" and "Brahman" and "Aton" and "YHWH" and "Jehova" regardless of what name you call it. God has many nicknames. I'll assume God is smart enough to figure out when He's being addressed.
divineseraph
Offline
Shinigami Vayth Crew
Newbie Hunter
Offline
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:51 am
what word do you mean that idea of the prophet? the name Allah? the name is written in Quran, which is Allah's direct words to the prophet (by direct, I mean through angel without any change), and he has to tell his people what he was told without any change. the prophet has no right to edit it even a little. For prophet's own words, it's called Hadits.
God doesn't come in language, but if we're talking about language, there's a reason why Quran is written in Arabic language, aside from because prophet Muhammad was sent for Arab people, and still be preserved in Arabic language (I won't talk about this now)
Of course, Allah know when He's called. He knows everything after all. But why call Him with other name while He introduced Himself as Allah? Sure, "God" or "Divine Power" literally refer to the most powerful entity, and He is Allah. But we're talking about name here, something that do not refer to anything else beside itself. You have a big brother, you can refer to him by "brother" or "my parent's oldest son", it doesn't matter. But you can't call him by your friend's name, etc. Again, He know when you call Him, but why call Him with other name? It will be a different story if you don't know, but we know it, at least now.
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 am
I am a Christian, I only belive in Jesus and God.
There are many reasons why I don't follow any other religion including islam.
To me Jesus was an increcibly special man, a great one. He had compassion, love, patience, understanding, and reached out to people in need. It's just how I would see God to be He didn't come into the world to start wars or say he was better than everyone else. He came with a message of peace. Jesus didn't kill anyone in the name of God, he came to bring life not take it.
In the bible he says so many great things, and the amazing thing about him was he started off just one man by himself and a select few others that chose to follow him and spread God's message throughout the land. People didn't know Jesus because he was man of war, he didn't have some great kingdom where he was known as a king on earth they knew him by his mouth what he said the good things he did he was just a traveler going about to help people.
He did many miricals, gave revalations about what was going to happen in the future, explained the bible more clearly to others so they understand, he came to help the people who were sinful so that they turned away from it. Even more Jesus had compassion for women, men in that time could be brutal and as a woman that sticks out to me and says something. He wasn't mean to women and was very understanding just like the woman who was caught in the act of adultery they grabbed her but what of the man she was with? They wanted to stone her but Jesus reminded the men of their own self rightousness and told them to cast the first stone he without sin. Then he was nice to the woman after the men walked off because they knew in their hearts that they were to all human. He told her to not sin anymore and that was it.
I notice that in alot of other religions even some so called "Christian" ones like jehovas witness or Mormon that you have to do many tasks to get your way into heaven.
After reading my bible (king james one) I read that everyone is a sinner no man is good. Everyone has had bad thoughts or has done atleast one of the sins in the great book and we are all as filthy rags that need to be cleaned.
I look at all these other relgions and see that you have to do certain things, pray certain ways, fast on certain days, go to certain places, you have to do all of these chores to get your way into heaven. It all seems to me materialistic, like in the mormon church if you are a woman and don't marry a man in the temple you will not get into the highest place of heaven and see God because you are not jointed with a man.
So many hoops and things you have to jump through, but in my bible it says that all you need to do is love God with all your heart, accept Christ into your life as your saviour and confess your sins to God and ask only Him for help and forgiveness and try your best to follow the commandments love your neighbors and you get the picture I hope.
It isn't that I'm a simple person and that I wouldn't want to go the extra mile for God, all of these things that other people's relgion asks just to me seems so materilistic is eems physical and not spiritual at all. In the mormon church also there is baptisim for the dead, mind you they don't dig up dead bodies but they get themselves baptised for an already dead person.
I hold on to just being Christian because it makes the most sence, Jesus also warned that angels of light will come to men and decive them and tell lies so stay true to God.
white winters snow
Offline
Voldemort point two
Offline
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:31 am
Casarthepuppet
Jesus also warned that angels of light will come to men and decive them and tell lies so stay true to God.
Actually, Jesus warned that the Devil would come looking like an angel of light... but other than that I totally agree with your post.