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 Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:50 pm
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magmayoshi Hydra Alpharius magmayoshi Hydra Alpharius I wouldnt say its contradicting anything. The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety. Pathetic. Especially since some laws contradict your safety at times. And how doesn't saying "be strong willed and challenge everything" contradict "shut the ******** up you NEVER have final say to authority so bow"? I do gotta say though, it makes great sheep who think they are free. Pathetic? No not in any sense. Where I live the laws are made for safety and the protection of the people. I dont know about you people in the U.S.A and however the hell they run it there. We're pretty free over here. Oh and if your implying that Im some sort of sheep in a herd, I could say the same to you. That's so naive though. I don't live in the States so nice try being wrong. >___> I live in Canada. Nope I don't follow that well, I steal what I agree with and discard the rest. You follow law because it's law, I follow law till my freedom overrides its stupidity. You aren't free, you are a b***h to other people's rules created by other people's ideals.
Well given that the United States makes up most of the Gaia community, its easy being wrong about that. Whatever.
A b***h? Now you going into name calling? My my you act like an angry child when it cant get its way. You may think that your doing your own thing but dont be surprised when Canada becomes apart of the United States and Mexico and the rest of the world.
I follow law because I need to. If I dont agree with something going on than Im am going to override what I think about the law. Easy. Where I live all the laws are made with good purpose and good reason. Absolutely non of them go against a persons freedom. |
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:03 pm
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Quote: And the law doesn't exactly stop them, does it? So then, we now have to look at health effects. And seeing as how it's no more dangerous than cigarettes or alcohol, then there's really no reason to ban it.
Cigarettes and alcohol are dangerous... and I believe if your driving while under the influence of marijuana that can be dangerous too.
Quote: A few thousand people toking up, won't harm the future, that much. If it did, we'd already be ********, since a few thousand people ALREADY DO toke up.
Yeah it can and will. Everything that everybody does matters in some way and form to the ever lasting time line that we live in.
And if you dont think that things are ******** up, just look around at the decline of the youth of today.
Quote: Right, it becomes a personal choice, rather than a "NUU! DAT'S ILLEGUL!!" It becomes "Nah, I just don't think I want to do that." THERE is your individuality.
But theres your problem: most of the kids these days do that and when they take a stand and say that they DONT WANT TO DO IT, they get called names and are social outcasts because they have a strong will. Sounds like a paradox.
Quote: To you. To some people, it's a way to relieve stress, or just make their boring lives a bit more entertaining. Hell, a good bottle of beer, or shot of whiskey after a hard day's work...nothing beats it.
Once again there are other and better ways of relieving stress and being entertained.
You know that thing outside? You know with the trees and birds with the grass on the ground? Oh what is it? Oh right its called NATURE! Holy crap but its so hard to go outside and enjoy because the door is so far away!
Quote: But your reason isn't because you just don't want to. It's because "the law says no!" If I wanted to smoke up, the law would not stop me. I choose to follow the laws, but I don't do so blindly. I follow the laws I deem worth following. The rest, I contest.
Uh no. My reason is exactly because I dont want to do it and because it seems like a waste of time and money. Once again this is the internet and you have no idea what my moralities are.
Have fun with that. |
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:16 pm
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Fresnel Hydra Alpharius Fresnel Hydra Alpharius The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety. Sheep. Sheep? No my friend far from it. I could say the same for you since you obviously followed the common trend of smoking weed in the first place. My god have you got me down wrong. I'll have you know that I've never smoked weed, done crack, done heroin, smoked a cigarette, and I can count the number of times I've drank alcohol on one hand, and the number of times I've enjoyed it on less. "The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety." is as sheep as you can get. Blindly following the rules without giving a single though as to their justness or morality? That's sheep. Rules that are here 'for your safety' are generally around for the safety of OTHERS. Many times, those others are the lawmakers themselves, because they're afraid of how many of US there are, and how few of THEM. ETA: Are you being this much of an a*****e on purpose? Because seriously, when I read your posts, the attitude I'm seeing is a father going "oh you silly kids and your notions..."
Well now that is something Ive learned today.... but I dont care anyways.
No it isn't. They ARE there for your safety. So let me ask you this: what about the laws on murder? Rape? Burglary? Do they not matter? So I guess I should just go about on doing all those things? Dont be foolish.
Also with every law there is a consequence, such as being caught with Marujuana.
I dont understand why you guys just cant hold it until they make it legal and then you can smoke yourself silly without having to worry about jail time... perhaps because you fell like your being cool acting like a bunch of spoiled kids?
And just so you can understand whats going on right now: This is a debate. And when debates happen, no one is friends on opposing sides. That means that right now, you and me are opponents trying to prove each other wrong. Until this is over, then that is how Im going to be towards you in all respects. If you can't take it then leave, or better yet man up and give me all you've got. |
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:26 pm
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Hydra Alpharius Fresnel Hydra Alpharius Fresnel Hydra Alpharius The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety. Sheep. Sheep? No my friend far from it. I could say the same for you since you obviously followed the common trend of smoking weed in the first place. My god have you got me down wrong. I'll have you know that I've never smoked weed, done crack, done heroin, smoked a cigarette, and I can count the number of times I've drank alcohol on one hand, and the number of times I've enjoyed it on less. "The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety." is as sheep as you can get. Blindly following the rules without giving a single though as to their justness or morality? That's sheep. Rules that are here 'for your safety' are generally around for the safety of OTHERS. Many times, those others are the lawmakers themselves, because they're afraid of how many of US there are, and how few of THEM. ETA: Are you being this much of an a*****e on purpose? Because seriously, when I read your posts, the attitude I'm seeing is a father going "oh you silly kids and your notions..." Well now that is something Ive learned today.... but I dont care anyways. No it isn't. They ARE there for your safety. So let me ask you this: what about the laws on murder? Rape? Burglary? Do they not matter?
THOSE laws are there for your safety. The ban on marijuana, isn't an issue of safety, and it never was.
Wikipedia From 1906 different states in the United States started to implement regulations for sales of Cannabis indica. In 1925 a change of the International Opium Convention[3] banned exportation of Indian hemp to countries that have prohibited its use. Requiring importing countries to issue certificates approving the importation and stating that the shipment was required "exclusively for medical or scientific purposes." In 1937 the F.D. Roosevelt administration crafted the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act, the first US national law making cannabis possession illegal via an unpayable tax on the drug.
It looks to me like it never had anything to do with "ITZ BADD 4 YEW!"
Quote: So I guess I should just go about on doing all those things? Dont be foolish.
Again, there's a difference between a law that is in effect "for your safety" and one that is not. Marijuana is the safest drug you can possibly administer to your body, and it's illegal, while tobacco is perfectly LEGAL despite being much worse to your system. Hell, Cannabis actually has HEALTH BENEFITS, that even tobacco can't claim.
Quote: Also with every law there is a consequence, such as being caught with Marujuana.
We know. We follow the law, accordingly. However, we're not going to just sit back and say "well, it's the law, and those lawmakers know what they're doing, right?"
We choose to contest the law, and work to undo the injustices of the arbitrary law's existence.
Quote: I dont understand why you guys just cant hold it until they make it legal and then you can smoke yourself silly without having to worry about jail time... perhaps because you fell like your being cool acting like a bunch of spoiled kids?
Neither I, nor Fresnel, have ever intentionally smoked marijuana, so that argument is dead. The closest I came to it, was sitting right behind a stoner, at a Metallica Concert, that was held indoors. No real way I could've avoided the contact high, as hard as I tried. Regrettedly, I can not hold my breath for 2 hours.
Quote: And just so you can understand whats going on right now: This is a debate. And when debates happen, no one is friends on opposing sides. That means that right now, you and me are opponents trying to prove each other wrong. Until this is over, then that is how Im going to be towards you in all respects.
Then you're a shitty debater. I'm sorry, but I had to say it.
A TRUE debater knows how to "keep it in the debate". Basically, with me, I can tear your arguments to s**t, in one thread, and be your best friend anywhere else. Because we're only enemies HERE. So I'm not going to be a d**k to you in other threads, where we're in agreement.
Quote: If you can't take it then leave, or better yet man up and give me all you've got.
No one's "leaving", least of all, Fresnel, or myself. |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:58 pm
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Hydra Alpharius Quote: And the law doesn't exactly stop them, does it? So then, we now have to look at health effects. And seeing as how it's no more dangerous than cigarettes or alcohol, then there's really no reason to ban it. Cigarettes and alcohol are dangerous... and I believe if your driving while under the influence of marijuana that can be dangerous too.
Of course it can. That's why, even if legalized, it would still be ILLEGAL to drive under the influence of marijuana, just as it's illegal to drive under the influence of alcohol. But, if you're not planning on doing any driving tonight, then what's the problem?
Quote: Quote: A few thousand people toking up, won't harm the future, that much. If it did, we'd already be ********, since a few thousand people ALREADY DO toke up. Yeah it can and will. Everything that everybody does matters in some way and form to the ever lasting time line that we live in.
So, if I choose to suck down a bottle of booze, and sit in my livingroom watching old cartoons, that has some long lasting effect on the rest of the world?
Or if I choose to smoke up a joint (just for the sake of argument), while sitting in my livingroom, and laughing at things that aren't generally funny (like people talking in spanish), that has some grave consequence in the future?
I SERIOUSLY doubt that. It would only have "consequences" if I did so, in the presence of others, specifically, those who do not wish to engage in smoking of Cannabis.
Quote: Quote: And if you dont think that things are ******** up, just look around at the decline of the youth of today. Quote: Right, it becomes a personal choice, rather than a "NUU! DAT'S ILLEGUL!!" It becomes "Nah, I just don't think I want to do that." THERE is your individuality. But theres your problem: most of the kids these days do that and when they take a stand and say that they DONT WANT TO DO IT, they get called names and are social outcasts because they have a strong will. Sounds like a paradox. So what? That's with ANYTHING! It's not exclusive to drugs, in any sense. And if they "give in" to the other people calling them names, then they don't have a strong will, do they? I got called a loser, and a f*****t, for not choosing to smoke up. But I didn't give in, because I ACTUALLY DO have a strong will. The legality of the product will not change the outcome, one bit. Also, a lot of the point to forcing someone to smoke cannabis, is in the illegality, the "rebel" factor. "COME ON! BE A REBEL!" If it's not illegal, they likely won't pressure you so much, because there's nothing to gain from it. Quote: Quote: To you. To some people, it's a way to relieve stress, or just make their boring lives a bit more entertaining. Hell, a good bottle of beer, or shot of whiskey after a hard day's work...nothing beats it. Once again there are other and better ways of relieving stress and being entertained. In YOUR opinion. However, YOUR opinion holds no ground on anyone but yourself. Otherwise, I'll argue that you should bow to my god, because it is MY opinion that he's the greatest diety you can worship. So, does my opinion hold any ground on you? Does your opinion hold any ground on me? Quote: You know that thing outside? You know with the trees and birds with the grass on the ground? Oh what is it? Oh right its called NATURE! Holy crap but its so hard to go outside and enjoy because the door is so far away! No, it's hard to enjoy because there isn't s**t to do out there. I'm 23 years old. I'm not going to go play tag with the neighbor's kids, or ride my tricycle down the side walk a hundred laps. When you're an adult, there really isn't much to do outside. I go for walks, occasionally, just for the hell of it. And in the WINTER, it's 15 ******** degrees outside, and I have no reason to freeze my d**k off, for "entertainment". So, what's wrong with sitting in your livingroom, toking up? If it entertains me, and doesn't affect you, I see no problem here. Unless you're just trying to force your beliefs onto me, wherein eradicating this whole "Individuality" thing you've been preaching. Quote: Quote: But your reason isn't because you just don't want to. It's because "the law says no!" If I wanted to smoke up, the law would not stop me. I choose to follow the laws, but I don't do so blindly. I follow the laws I deem worth following. The rest, I contest. Uh no. My reason is exactly because I dont want to do it and because it seems like a waste of time and money. And you want to force your opinion on me, thus screwing me out of my right to individuality, because you want me to follow your ideals. "YEW SHUDUNT SMOAK DOWP B-CUZ I FEAL ITZ UH WAYST OV TIEM N MUNEYZ!!" If I smoke up, or choose NOT to smoke up, it should be for MY reasons, not yours. And you preach "individuality". Quote: Once again this is the internet and you have no idea what my moralities are. Well, I can certainly guess. And based on your attitude, and the things you preach, I think I have a pretty good idea. I will biggrin |
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:11 pm
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Hydra Alpharius magmayoshi Hydra Alpharius magmayoshi Hydra Alpharius I wouldnt say its contradicting anything. The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety. Pathetic. Especially since some laws contradict your safety at times. And how doesn't saying "be strong willed and challenge everything" contradict "shut the ******** up you NEVER have final say to authority so bow"? I do gotta say though, it makes great sheep who think they are free. Pathetic? No not in any sense. Where I live the laws are made for safety and the protection of the people. I dont know about you people in the U.S.A and however the hell they run it there. We're pretty free over here. Oh and if your implying that Im some sort of sheep in a herd, I could say the same to you. That's so naive though. I don't live in the States so nice try being wrong. >___> I live in Canada. Nope I don't follow that well, I steal what I agree with and discard the rest. You follow law because it's law, I follow law till my freedom overrides its stupidity. You aren't free, you are a b***h to other people's rules created by other people's ideals. Well given that the United States makes up most of the Gaia community, its easy being wrong about that. Whatever. A b***h? Now you going into name calling?
He was describing your actions. You follow the rules "like a b***h to it's master", is what he was trying to say. You seemingly refuse to question the lawmakers, and just assume that "if they say it's bad for me, then it must be..."
Quote: My my you act like an angry child when it cant get its way. You may think that your doing your own thing but dont be surprised when Canada becomes apart of the United States and Mexico and the rest of the world.
Do you honestly believe that will ever happen? I doubt the US, Mexico, and Canada will ever merge to be one.
Quote: I follow law because I need to. If I dont agree with something going on than Im am going to override what I think about the law. Easy.
And yet, we provide you all the reasons why Cannabis should be legal, and all you can rebuttal with is "well the government says it's "for your safety", despite the fact that "safety" was never an issue with the COMPLETE ban of cannabis.
No driving under influence of marijuana, THAT is for your safety, but no possession of cannabis, ever, ever, ever, ******** ever? What's so "unsafe" about that?
Quote: Where I live all the laws are made with good purpose and good reason. Absolutely non of them go against a persons freedom.
Well you're obviously not an American, are you?
Hell, we have laws that restrict who can be civilly unionized. Is THAT "for our safety", too? |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:12 pm
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:15 pm
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mistercombine Really, legalizing it isn;t a health concern. It's political, whichever party tries to legalize it gets THAT many more votes. Also means the violence in Mexico dies down, until the Drug Lords fight over something else, say, the right to sell puppies to the US.
Lol puppies?
Well, It'd more likely be just the next thing they can sell, like crack, or heroin. Which, those are both chemically addictive, and are WAAAAAAAAAY worse than marijuana, so I don't oppose continuing the bans on those products. But marijuana isn't really that bad, so banning it is just like telling a child "No! You can't have this, because I said so!" |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:55 pm
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Quote: THOSE laws are there for your safety. The ban on marijuana, isn't an issue of safety, and it never was.
Marijuana produces smoke right? And smoke in your lungs isnt good right? Theres the safety problem. And how about the second hand smoke? Im sure not everyone wants to breath it in.
Quote: It looks to me like it never had anything to do with "ITZ BADD 4 YEW!"
Look at the above sentence. It is bad.
Quote: Again, there's a difference between a law that is in effect "for your safety" and one that is not. Marijuana is the safest drug you can possibly administer to your body, and it's illegal, while tobacco is perfectly LEGAL despite being much worse to your system. Hell, Cannabis actually has HEALTH BENEFITS, that even tobacco can't claim.
There is no such thing as a safe drug. Thats a medical fact. People can suffer psychosis from smoking to much Marijuana and depression and anxiety follow suit after its been smoked.
Quote: We know. We follow the law, accordingly. However, we're not going to just sit back and say "well, it's the law, and those lawmakers know what they're doing, right?" We choose to contest the law, and work to undo the injustices of the arbitrary law's existence.
Injustice? What because you cant get what you want? That sounds like what a spoiled child would say if they didnt get candy...
I think that mankind can continue on without having to use any recreational drug...
Quote: Neither I, nor Fresnel, have ever intentionally smoked marijuana, so that argument is dead. The closest I came to it, was sitting right behind a stoner, at a Metallica Concert, that was held indoors. No real way I could've avoided the contact high, as hard as I tried. Regrettedly, I can not hold my breath for 2 hours.
Well from the way you two attacked me it would seem like otherwise.
That isnt an excuse. You could have moved if you wanted too, but that doesn't matter since its really not part of the this conversation.
Quote: Then you're a shitty debater. I'm sorry, but I had to say it. A TRUE debater knows how to "keep it in the debate". Basically, with me, I can tear your arguments to s**t, in one thread, and be your best friend anywhere else. Because we're only enemies HERE. So I'm not going to be a d**k to you in other threads, where we're in agreement.
Im a shitty debater? Oh thats funny because from what I can remember it was you and the other guys that changed the topic. And your not tearing anything up at all, in fact your further proving how pathetic this whole topic was in the first place. Go ahead. Legalize it and let all your poor civilians go and rot.
Quote: So, if I choose to suck down a bottle of booze, and sit in my livingroom watching old cartoons, that has some long lasting effect on the rest of the world? Or if I choose to smoke up a joint (just for the sake of argument), while sitting in my livingroom, and laughing at things that aren't generally funny (like people talking in spanish), that has some grave consequence in the future? I SERIOUSLY doubt that. It would only have "consequences" if I did so, in the presence of others, specifically, those who do not wish to engage in smoking of Cannabis.
Actually you sitting at home would have an effect on others. For example: If you sat at home getting blazed, shitfaced, or whatever, do you realize that you probably could have missed the chance to meet someone, save someone, effect someones day, and so on? It might be hard to understand but honestly it works that way.
Quote: So what? That's with ANYTHING! It's not exclusive to drugs, in any sense. And if they "give in" to the other people calling them names, then they don't have a strong will, do they? I got called a loser, and a f*****t, for not choosing to smoke up. But I didn't give in, because I ACTUALLY DO have a strong will. The legality of the product will not change the outcome, one bit. Also, a lot of the point to forcing someone to smoke cannabis, is in the illegality, the "rebel" factor. "COME ON! BE A REBEL!" If it's not illegal, they likely won't pressure you so much, because there's nothing to gain from it.
Hmmm... now theres something that makes sense. ******** thats the first thing Ive heard from you guys that was a logical statement. What Im saying is that the youth of today hold the future of tomorrow and if they are all being dumbed down by multiple types of recreational drugs than theres a problem with the future of humanity.
Quote: In YOUR opinion. However, YOUR opinion holds no ground on anyone but yourself. Otherwise, I'll argue that you should bow to my god, because it is MY opinion that he's the greatest diety you can worship. So, does my opinion hold any ground on you? Does your opinion hold any ground on me?
No its not an opinion but a proven fact. There ARE more relaxing things to do than sit and smoke weed. Massage, swimming, running, playing a video game, have sex with your girl (or guy whatever you like). Sincerely its the truth.
Quote: No, it's hard to enjoy because there isn't s**t to do out there. I'm 23 years old. I'm not going to go play tag with the neighbor's kids, or ride my tricycle down the side walk a hundred laps. When you're an adult, there really isn't much to do outside. I go for walks, occasionally, just for the hell of it. And in the WINTER, it's 15 ******** degrees outside, and I have no reason to freeze my d**k off, for "entertainment". So, what's wrong with sitting in your livingroom, toking up? If it entertains me, and doesn't affect you, I see no problem here. Unless you're just trying to force your beliefs onto me, wherein eradicating this whole "Individuality" thing you've been preaching.
You must live in the most boring part of the planet. I'm 18, out of school and there is hundreds of things to do outside and not just go into the forest. Here there is the downtown districts and shopping centers where all the pretty ladies in the world seem to gather up. AND I LOVE IT. Theres something to do and in the winter I invite friends over and we play some board games and laugh and enjoy life.
You can take whatever you want or not. Its your life and this is my life. No forcing anything.
Quote: And you want to force your opinion on me, thus screwing me out of my right to individuality, because you want me to follow your ideals. "YEW SHUDUNT SMOAK DOWP B-CUZ I FEAL ITZ UH WAYST OV TIEM N MUNEYZ!!" If I smoke up, or choose NOT to smoke up, it should be for MY reasons, not yours. And you preach "individuality".
Im not forcing anything. Your making it seem that way. If I was forcing you to accept what Im saying I would do something like this:
"YOU WILL SUBMIT TO WHAT I AM TELLING YOU TO DO OR I WILL STRANGLE YOUR FAMILY BEFORE YOUR EYES AND THEN KILL YOU VERY SLOWLY."
Now that would be just absurd.
Now what Im really trying to do is just letting kids now that doing what everybody else is doing, is not, and I repeat, not the right thing to do. Be healthy and strong.
Quote: Well, I can certainly guess. And based on your attitude, and the things you preach, I think I have a pretty good idea.
You can guess but your definitely way off. There is no such thing as understanding me, especially through a computer screen. Quote: He was describing your actions. You follow the rules "like a b***h to it's master", is what he was trying to say. You seemingly refuse to question the lawmakers, and just assume that "if they say it's bad for me, then it must be..."
For ******** sake. What I meant by "The rules are the rules and the law is the law", I meant that there primarily there for your safety, thus reducing your chances of getting injured or killed. If a law says that I should go around killing things left and right, obviously my morality would kick in and I would not do it.
And whether you believe it or not, he was calling me a b***h indirectly.
Quote: Do you honestly believe that will ever happen? I doubt the US, Mexico, and Canada will ever merge to be one
Give it about ten years. You'll see, hell they even have a currency being planned out already.
Quote: And yet, we provide you all the reasons why Cannabis should be legal, and all you can rebuttal with is "well the government says it's "for your safety", despite the fact that "safety" was never an issue with the COMPLETE ban of cannabis. No driving under influence of marijuana, THAT is for your safety, but no possession of cannabis, ever, ever, ever, ******** ever? What's so "unsafe" about that?
:/. No I believe I said something along the lines of "humanity free from recreational drugs, kids being our future, and smoke in your lungs".
You realize that people get killed for it right?
Quote: Well you're obviously not an American, are you? Hell, we have laws that restrict who can be civilly unionized. Is THAT "for our safety", too?
Yes Mr. Sherlock Holmes I am not an American.
Uh I believe thats a problem for your government to hand... and I dont think it has anything to do with Marijuana. |
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:15 pm
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Hydra Alpharius Quote: THOSE laws are there for your safety. The ban on marijuana, isn't an issue of safety, and it never was. Marijuana produces smoke right? And smoke in your lungs isnt good right? Theres the safety problem. And how about the second hand smoke? Im sure not everyone wants to breath it in.
Ok, well, do you have a problem with motor vehicles? The smoke from marijuana is no worse than vehicular exhaust. But I'm betting you have no problem with motor driven vehicles, do you?
A negligable amount of toxin, which does not pose a significant threat to your life, is not worth worrying about, unless you'd rather live in a plastic bubble for the rest of your life, because such toxins are otherwise unavoidable.
Quote: Quote: It looks to me like it never had anything to do with "ITZ BADD 4 YEW!" Look at the above sentence. It is bad.
Again, it's not "THAT" bad. ANYTHING can be bad for you. Too much water, can kill you. Breathing VEHICULAR EXHAUST can kill you. But those things are both perfectly legal, because the damage done to your body, on average "isn't that bad".
And your lungs can clean themselves out, from the toxins. The only time it can not, is when such exposure becomes a common thing.
Quote: Quote: Quote: Again, there's a difference between a law that is in effect "for your safety" and one that is not. Marijuana is the safest drug you can possibly administer to your body, and it's illegal, while tobacco is perfectly LEGAL despite being much worse to your system. Hell, Cannabis actually has HEALTH BENEFITS, that even tobacco can't claim. Quote: There is no such thing as a safe drug. Thats a medical fact. People can suffer psychosis from smoking to much Marijuana and depression and anxiety follow suit after its been smoked. NOTHING ON EARTH is ever safe. Too much food? Deadly. Too much oxygen? Deadly. Quote: Quote: We know. We follow the law, accordingly. However, we're not going to just sit back and say "well, it's the law, and those lawmakers know what they're doing, right?" We choose to contest the law, and work to undo the injustices of the arbitrary law's existence. Injustice? What because you cant get what you want? That sounds like what a spoiled child would say if they didnt get candy... No, because there's no legitimate reason to deny us of this thing. And no, I don't want it. I simply don't want to deny those who DO. Quote: I think that mankind can continue on without having to use any recreational drug... I wouldn't be so sure. Quote: Quote: Neither I, nor Fresnel, have ever intentionally smoked marijuana, so that argument is dead. The closest I came to it, was sitting right behind a stoner, at a Metallica Concert, that was held indoors. No real way I could've avoided the contact high, as hard as I tried. Regrettedly, I can not hold my breath for 2 hours. Well from the way you two attacked me it would seem like otherwise. We attacked you, because your points are illogical, nothing more. Quote: That isnt an excuse. You could have moved if you wanted too, but that doesn't matter since its really not part of the this conversation. Quote: Then you're a shitty debater. I'm sorry, but I had to say it. A TRUE debater knows how to "keep it in the debate". Basically, with me, I can tear your arguments to s**t, in one thread, and be your best friend anywhere else. Because we're only enemies HERE. So I'm not going to be a d**k to you in other threads, where we're in agreement. Im a shitty debater? Oh thats funny because from what I can remember it was you and the other guys that changed the topic. And your not tearing anything up at all, in fact your further proving how pathetic this whole topic was in the first place. Go ahead. Legalize it and let all your poor civilians go and rot. Civilization would not change, in the least, actually. And you're a shitty debator if you can't keep your aggression in the debate. I don't have time to finish this tonight, I'll have to work on it more tomorrow. |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:58 pm
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Quote: Ok, well, do you have a problem with motor vehicles? The smoke from marijuana is no worse than vehicular exhaust. But I'm betting you have no problem with motor driven vehicles, do you? A negligable amount of toxin, which does not pose a significant threat to your life, is not worth worrying about, unless you'd rather live in a plastic bubble for the rest of your life, because such toxins are otherwise unavoidable.
Uh isnt breathing in exhaust from a car bad for you. Infact isnt that a method of suicide? Yeah it is. Toxin is toxin.
Quote: Again, it's not "THAT" bad. ANYTHING can be bad for you. Too much water, can kill you. Breathing VEHICULAR EXHAUST can kill you. But those things are both perfectly legal, because the damage done to your body, on average "isn't that bad". And your lungs can clean themselves out, from the toxins. The only time it can not, is when such exposure becomes a common thing.
Didn't you just say that Marijuana is no worse than breathing in auto smoke? Hmmm...
They can clean themselves out but only to a certain extent. The more you do it, the harder it is for your lungs to repair the damage.
Quote: NOTHING ON EARTH is ever safe. Too much food? Deadly. Too much oxygen? Deadly.
Thats what I was saying....
Quote: No, because there's no legitimate reason to deny us of this thing. And no, I don't want it. I simply don't want to deny those who DO.
Yes there are reasons. And through out the conversation Ive pointed them out.
And why is that? Because we NEED these recreational drugs in order to endure? No, no we dont. Im pretty sure the first caveman or whatever you believe in, didnt sit down and say "s**t I need some booze and a blunt or I will never catch that wily Mammoth!"
Quote: We attacked you, because your points are illogical, nothing more
In your opinion. And they are only illogical in your opinion because I dont agree with your points.
Quote: Civilization would not change, in the least, actually. And you're a shitty debator if you can't keep your aggression in the debate. I don't have time to finish this tonight, I'll have to work on it more tomorrow.
How would you know?
And what aggression do you speak of? Hell I can say that your a shitty debater since you like to make fun of my sentences in a LOL CATS kinda way...
Regardless sleep well and we will continue speaking tomorrow. |
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:21 am
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Hydra Alpharius Quote: He was describing your actions. You follow the rules "like a b***h to it's master", is what he was trying to say. You seemingly refuse to question the lawmakers, and just assume that "if they say it's bad for me, then it must be..." Key word: seemingly. For ******** sake. What I meant by "The rules are the rules and the law is the law", I meant that there primarily there for your safety, thus reducing your chances of getting injured or killed. If a law says that I should go around killing things left and right, obviously my morality would kick in and I would not do it. And whether you believe it or not, he was calling me a b***h indirectly.
You kept saying "The rules are the rules and the law is the law".
You should have specified that morality getting in the way but again there is a lot of laws that have nothing to do with your safety and some that wouldn't conflict with morality that WILL definitely take away freedom.
Quit being so negative gonk I meant it strictly "like a b***h to it's master", there are other more brutally fitting insults to throw but that would be distracting from the discussion.
black_wing_angel do you have a problem with motor vehicles? The smoke from marijuana is no worse than vehicular exhaust. But I'm betting you have no problem with motor driven vehicles, do you?
Damn you beat me to it. And if you live in any size city you are breathing a low amount of exhaust as you step outside. Marijuana smokers are too few to create smog. As long as smoking marijuana is restricted like it's more destructive friend cigarettes you'll only get the rare whiff from the odd user standing too close to a building entrance [and you'll still inhale it less often than cigarette smoke or car exaust]. |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:25 am
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Hydra Alpharius Quote: Ok, well, do you have a problem with motor vehicles? The smoke from marijuana is no worse than vehicular exhaust. But I'm betting you have no problem with motor driven vehicles, do you? A negligable amount of toxin, which does not pose a significant threat to your life, is not worth worrying about, unless you'd rather live in a plastic bubble for the rest of your life, because such toxins are otherwise unavoidable. Uh isnt breathing in exhaust from a car bad for you. Infact isnt that a method of suicide? Yeah it is. Toxin is toxin.
And yet, you're not arguing to ban cars, even though they're worse than marijuana.
Quote: Again, it's not "THAT" bad. ANYTHING can be bad for you. Too much water, can kill you. Breathing VEHICULAR EXHAUST can kill you. But those things are both perfectly legal, because the damage done to your body, on average "isn't that bad". And your lungs can clean themselves out, from the toxins. The only time it can not, is when such exposure becomes a common thing.
Didn't you just say that Marijuana is no worse than breathing in auto smoke? Hmmm...
They can clean themselves out but only to a certain extent. The more you do it, the harder it is for your lungs to repair the damage.
Exactly. So "other people around you breathe it too!" well, their lungs will clean themselves out, since they're not generally exposed to it.
Quote: NOTHING ON EARTH is ever safe. Too much food? Deadly. Too much oxygen? Deadly.
Thats what I was saying....
And yet, you have no intention of banning these things, because of the possibility of overdose.
Quote: Quote: No, because there's no legitimate reason to deny us of this thing. And no, I don't want it. I simply don't want to deny those who DO. Yes there are reasons. And through out the conversation Ive pointed them out.
And I've debunked them.
Quote: And why is that? Because we NEED these recreational drugs in order to endure? No, no we dont. Im pretty sure the first caveman or whatever you believe in, didnt sit down and say "s**t I need some booze and a blunt or I will never catch that wily Mammoth!"
He also didn't have quite the lifestyle that we have today. He didn't have bills to worry about. He didn't have the kind of stress that drives people insane, today.
And marijuana is good for other things, too. For someone going through Chemo Therepy, it can help them retain their appetite, so they don't starve to death. And it even treats glacoma. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives.
Quote: Quote: We attacked you, because your points are illogical, nothing more In your opinion. And they are only illogical in your opinion because I dont agree with your points.
Exactly. And we brought this to your attention.
Quote: Quote: Civilization would not change, in the least, actually. And you're a shitty debator if you can't keep your aggression in the debate. I don't have time to finish this tonight, I'll have to work on it more tomorrow. How would you know?
Because marijuana is common as ******** already, and nothing particularly awful has come from it, aside from drug deals going sour. And that problem would disappear if it were legal.
Hell, some of the guys I work with are known stoners, and they work just as good as anyone else.
Quote: And what aggression do you speak of?
You said that "until this issue is resolved" that you'd see us as "enemies" everywhere you see us.
A good debater does not do that. Fres and I have had disagreements. Hell, we are currently in opposition in one, but we keep our disagreements in the debates. He doesn't "hate my guts, and be a p***k to me, until I tell him he's right", and vice versa.
Quote: Hell I can say that your a shitty debater since you like to make fun of my sentences in a LOL CATS kinda way...
What the ******** do you mean by that? confused
Quote: Regardless sleep well and we will continue speaking tomorrow.
It wasn't "sleep" I had to leave for, it was work. I work 3rd shift. |
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:57 am
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Hydra Alpharius Quote: I SERIOUSLY doubt that. It would only have "consequences" if I did so, in the presence of others, specifically, those who do not wish to engage in smoking of Cannabis. Actually you sitting at home would have an effect on others. For example: If you sat at home getting blazed, shitfaced, or whatever, do you realize that you probably could have missed the chance to meet someone, save someone, effect someones day, and so on? It might be hard to understand but honestly it works that way.
Sure, but that brings up the questions:
Would me meeting this person be beneficial?
If not, then I'm better off not meeting them.
Would I even be ABLE to save their life? And would I even BOTHER to try, given the chance?
If not, then there's no difference made, except I get to be free of guilt (if I would feel guilty otherwise).
Would impacting their day be a good thing, or a bad thing?
Quote: Quote: So what? That's with ANYTHING! It's not exclusive to drugs, in any sense. And if they "give in" to the other people calling them names, then they don't have a strong will, do they? I got called a loser, and a f*****t, for not choosing to smoke up. But I didn't give in, because I ACTUALLY DO have a strong will. The legality of the product will not change the outcome, one bit. Also, a lot of the point to forcing someone to smoke cannabis, is in the illegality, the "rebel" factor. "COME ON! BE A REBEL!" If it's not illegal, they likely won't pressure you so much, because there's nothing to gain from it. Hmmm... now theres something that makes sense. ******** thats the first thing Ive heard from you guys that was a logical statement. What Im saying is that the youth of today hold the future of tomorrow and if they are all being dumbed down by multiple types of recreational drugs than theres a problem with the future of humanity.
From what I've seen, it's not "drugs" dumbing them down.
I know stoners, I even WORK with them, who are every bit an asset to the world, as I myself am. You play WAAAAAAAAAAY too much into the stereotype that stoners are automatically lazy ********. Many would go unnoticed if they didn't specifically tell you that they do these things.
And there are things OTHER than drugs, which are holding them down. Bad parenting seems to be a key factor, here.
You're blaming the wrong person on the right problem.
Quote: Quote: In YOUR opinion. However, YOUR opinion holds no ground on anyone but yourself. Otherwise, I'll argue that you should bow to my god, because it is MY opinion that he's the greatest diety you can worship. So, does my opinion hold any ground on you? Does your opinion hold any ground on me? No its not an opinion but a proven fact.
Then you need to learn more about the difference between fact and opinion.
Quote: There ARE more relaxing things to do than sit and smoke weed.
IN YOUR OPINION. What you find relaxing, I might not.
Hell, some people find sitting in their room, blasting Lamb of God, is relaxing. But I doubt you'd agree with them.
Quote: Massage, swimming, running, playing a video game, have sex with your girl (or guy whatever you like). Sincerely its the truth.
Some might not like massages. I can't swim. Some people HATE running. Some people hate video games, or get to frustrated with them, to "enjoy" them. And some people are asexual, or simply chaste, or simply don't "enjoy" sex, as much as you do.
So no, it's not "the truth" it's your opinion. Learn the difference.
Quote: No, it's hard to enjoy because there isn't s**t to do out there. I'm 23 years old. I'm not going to go play tag with the neighbor's kids, or ride my tricycle down the side walk a hundred laps. When you're an adult, there really isn't much to do outside. I go for walks, occasionally, just for the hell of it. And in the WINTER, it's 15 ******** degrees outside, and I have no reason to freeze my d**k off, for "entertainment". So, what's wrong with sitting in your livingroom, toking up? If it entertains me, and doesn't affect you, I see no problem here. Unless you're just trying to force your beliefs onto me, wherein eradicating this whole "Individuality" thing you've been preaching.
You must live in the most boring part of the planet.
Actually, yes. I kinda do. I have very few friends in my town, to go visit, and we don't have s**t for entertainment, that does not involve alcohol, or expensive tickets to movies I generally don't care to see.
Just because YOU can always find something better to do, does not mean everyone can.
Quote: Quote: I'm 18, out of school and there is hundreds of things to do outside and not just go into the forest. Here there is the downtown districts and shopping centers where all the pretty ladies in the world seem to gather up. AND I LOVE IT. Theres something to do and in the winter I invite friends over and we play some board games and laugh and enjoy life. Board games tend to suck, in my opinion. And the ones that don't, get boring, fast. I'd be up for poker, but most of my friends don't have a lot of money, and it's no fun without the gambling aspect. Quote: You can take whatever you want or not. Its your life and this is my life. No forcing anything. But you want to ban something that others enjoy. So, yes, you are forcing. Quote: Quote: And you want to force your opinion on me, thus screwing me out of my right to individuality, because you want me to follow your ideals. "YEW SHUDUNT SMOAK DOWP B-CUZ I FEAL ITZ UH WAYST OV TIEM N MUNEYZ!!" If I smoke up, or choose NOT to smoke up, it should be for MY reasons, not yours. And you preach "individuality". Im not forcing anything. Your making it seem that way. If I was forcing you to accept what Im saying I would do something like this: "YOU WILL SUBMIT TO WHAT I AM TELLING YOU TO DO OR I WILL STRANGLE YOUR FAMILY BEFORE YOUR EYES AND THEN KILL YOU VERY SLOWLY." Or, you could just rally to ban such a thing, so that the COPS will make such a threat. AND THAT is what you HAVE been doing. Quote: Now what Im really trying to do is just letting kids now that doing what everybody else is doing, is not, and I repeat, not the right thing to do. And why do you just assume that everyone who does pot, does it because everyone else does? I've smoked a few cigars in my day, but not because everyone else does, but because I thought to myself "I wonder what this is all about", and went for it. I wasn't "following the crowd", I was giving myself a life experience. But only if we want to, right? Follow our own individual direction, and not yours, right? Quote: Quote: Well, I can certainly guess. And based on your attitude, and the things you preach, I think I have a pretty good idea. You can guess but your definitely way off. There is no such thing as understanding me, especially through a computer screen. Quote: Oh, believe me, there IS such a thing. Now, I understand what you mean, because I'm equally enigmatic. But make no mistake, it's not impossible. There is someone out there, who understands ME, better than anyone else alive, and she learned it all through a computer screen. You, are certainly no exception to the possibility. Quote: Quote: He was describing your actions. You follow the rules "like a b***h to it's master", is what he was trying to say. You seemingly refuse to question the lawmakers, and just assume that "if they say it's bad for me, then it must be..." Key word: seemingly. For ******** sake. What I meant by "The rules are the rules and the law is the law", I meant that there primarily there for your safety, thus reducing your chances of getting injured or killed. If a law says that I should go around killing things left and right, obviously my morality would kick in and I would not do it. You painted a different picture. Quote: And whether you believe it or not, he was calling me a b***h indirectly. I know him. And I'll take his word on the matter, over yours, since you can't possibly know the content of his mind, better than he himself can. Quote: Quote: Do you honestly believe that will ever happen? I doubt the US, Mexico, and Canada will ever merge to be one Give it about ten years. You'll see, hell they even have a currency being planned out already. I'll give it 50, and it still won't happen. The US has made offers to merge with Mexico, and they denied us every time. And Canada generally dispises us, and we don't particularly care about them, unless we need medical care we can't afford. Think of it as that neighbor whom you never really speak to, and you wouldn't be the least bit downhearted if they moved away. Quote: Quote: And yet, we provide you all the reasons why Cannabis should be legal, and all you can rebuttal with is "well the government says it's "for your safety", despite the fact that "safety" was never an issue with the COMPLETE ban of cannabis. No driving under influence of marijuana, THAT is for your safety, but no possession of cannabis, ever, ever, ever, ******** ever? What's so "unsafe" about that? :/. No I believe I said something along the lines of "humanity free from recreational drugs, Which means you want to force your opinion on others, by denying them their rights to endulge. It's their future to deal with. If the future is going to be ******** over, it's going to be ******** over, and you sure as ******** won't save it. And seeing as how we've dealt with people ILLEGALLY using drugs, and most of them seem to still be decent people, who you'd never guess were druggies, I'd say that drugs probably aren't going to jeopardize it. Now, our gluttonous waste of resources like oil, and wood, THAT might just ******** the future over. Quote: and smoke in your lungs". They're my lungs. I'll put in them whatever the ******** I want in them. Quote: You realize that people get killed for it right? Whoopty goddamn doo? People get killed for money. Should we ban that, too? Quote: Quote: Well you're obviously not an American, are you? Hell, we have laws that restrict who can be civilly unionized. Is THAT "for our safety", too? Yes Mr. Sherlock Holmes I am not an American. Uh I believe thats a problem for your government to hand... and I dont think it has anything to do with Marijuana. You claimed that our laws are "for our safety" but I provided you with a law that most certainly has NOTHING to do with "safety". My point? Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it's meant to protect us, or is for the best. So your whole "Well, it's a law for your safety", is officially bullshit. |
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:57 am
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Hydra Alpharius Fresnel Hydra Alpharius Fresnel Hydra Alpharius The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety. Sheep. Sheep? No my friend far from it. I could say the same for you since you obviously followed the common trend of smoking weed in the first place. My god have you got me down wrong. I'll have you know that I've never smoked weed, done crack, done heroin, smoked a cigarette, and I can count the number of times I've drank alcohol on one hand, and the number of times I've enjoyed it on less. "The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You have to follow them because they are there for your safety." is as sheep as you can get. Blindly following the rules without giving a single though as to their justness or morality? That's sheep. Rules that are here 'for your safety' are generally around for the safety of OTHERS. Many times, those others are the lawmakers themselves, because they're afraid of how many of US there are, and how few of THEM. ETA: Are you being this much of an a*****e on purpose? Because seriously, when I read your posts, the attitude I'm seeing is a father going "oh you silly kids and your notions..." Well now that is something Ive learned today.... but I dont care anyways. No it isn't. They ARE there for your safety. So let me ask you this: what about the laws on murder? Rape? Burglary? Do they not matter? So I guess I should just go about on doing all those things? Dont be foolish. Also with every law there is a consequence, such as being caught with Marujuana.
Let's look at some of the things it banned 'for our protection'. Keep in mind that this wasn't an outright ban, but any one firearm could only have only one of these before it became illegal.
*A folding stock. Useless to keep folded in combat, it's only good for storage. Folding it in combat would be detrimental to any kind of aim, and would probably end up with the shooter hurting himself trying.
*A pistol grip. This allows better control of the weapon. Plenty of rifles and shotguns use pistol grips for a variety of reasons. The AR-15 platform is extremely popular with varmint and predator hunters, for example.
*A grenade launcher. No, not the M203 underslung things, those have been illegal since '86. No, the funny-looking stippling or cups on old World-War-era rifles used to launch rifle grenades. Rifle grenades are both obsolete and nigh impossible to find in any condition. I would be surprised if there was a single criminal use of them ever.
*A bayonet lug. Sure cut down on that rash of drive-by bayonettings, huh?
*High-capacity magazines. Because reloads are slow, right?
*A flash suppressor. It only exists so the flame from your shot doesn't blind you. They just banned it because it LOOKS menacing. They did the exact same thing with the barrel shroud, which exists only to prevent you from burning yourself.
These weren't for our protection. Even the Department of Justice said that the effect on overall crime was immeasurable because of the rarity of said 'assault weapons' being used in crime. It was a bullshit law put out there to flex government muscle and crack down on the people BECAUSE THEY COULD. Face it, our government is corrupt as s**t and has been for a long time. Blindly following a government with blatant acts of muscle-flexing like this ends with, Godwin forgive me, Hitler.
Quote: I dont understand why you guys just cant hold it until they make it legal and then you can smoke yourself silly without having to worry about jail time... perhaps because you fell like your being cool acting like a bunch of spoiled kids?
Quote: And just so you can understand whats going on right now: This is a debate. And when debates happen, no one is friends on opposing sides. That means that right now, you and me are opponents trying to prove each other wrong. Until this is over, then that is how Im going to be towards you in all respects. If you can't take it then leave, or better yet man up and give me all you've got. |
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