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 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:08 am
There are certain atheistic religions. But atheism is not a religion, in and of itself.
Pitiful, like I said, we have had a discussion about this in the religious section. You might want to check it out, it's pretty interesting. And I apologize for misunderstanding your post. They way you went form talking about the Egyptians to talking about sacrifices made me assume you were still on the same topic of the Egyptian practices.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:29 am
rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra Dragoness Arleeana @Geek again: "the fall of man by a womans lust". If you are referring to when Eve ate the apple from the Garden of Eden, I've always had one question. If the bible DOES say that it was a womans "lust" that made her do it, then would that not mean sin was already within her being? Wouldn't that mean that she was CREATED with sin in her? Then would she really be the one to blame? I have not read that story in a long time, so I cannot remember the details. Sounds like a Mormon or Milton interpretation of the Fall. I was referring to the story of Samson and Delilah (bible) and Enkidu and Shamhat (Gilgamesh Epic). The stories are very similar because both the women were used to bring a strong man down to weakness with lustful ways. Different myths different purpose. Just glossing over the summary of the Enkidu myth, it seems to be about divinity in nature becoming civilized and part of urban/city culture. In Samson's myth you have a man who is given divine strength by a being for keeping an oath, he breaks that oath and looses his gift. He then gets his long hair back thus restoring his oath and then kicks a** against his capturers. Enkidu accepts his new life happy and even opposes his old way of living. The Enkidu myth is actually about him learning the ways of the world and the beginning into adulthood. Samson had already been with other women before Delilah, she was just the one that ended up betraying him, Enkidu had his innocence stolen.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:39 am
G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra Dragoness Arleeana @Geek again: "the fall of man by a womans lust". If you are referring to when Eve ate the apple from the Garden of Eden, I've always had one question. If the bible DOES say that it was a womans "lust" that made her do it, then would that not mean sin was already within her being? Wouldn't that mean that she was CREATED with sin in her? Then would she really be the one to blame? I have not read that story in a long time, so I cannot remember the details. Sounds like a Mormon or Milton interpretation of the Fall. I was referring to the story of Samson and Delilah (bible) and Enkidu and Shamhat (Gilgamesh Epic). The stories are very similar because both the women were used to bring a strong man down to weakness with lustful ways. Different myths different purpose. Just glossing over the summary of the Enkidu myth, it seems to be about divinity in nature becoming civilized and part of urban/city culture. In Samson's myth you have a man who is given divine strength by a being for keeping an oath, he breaks that oath and looses his gift. He then gets his long hair back thus restoring his oath and then kicks a** against his capturers. Enkidu accepts his new life happy and even opposes his old way of living. The Enkidu myth is actually about him learning the ways of the world and the beginning into adulthood. Samson had already been with other women before Delilah, she was just the one that ended up betraying him, Enkidu had his innocence stolen. Enkidu didn't regret having his innocence stolen. Samson did regret losing his divine gifts.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:54 am
rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra Sapphirianna Believe it or not the term atheist means no religion whatsoever, but from my experience, they still have a religion. No Atheist means disbelief or no believe in a God. There are atheist religions such LeVey Satanism and Buddhism but atheism in and of it's self is not a religions. Atheism is the belief that there are no deities, yes. BUT it is a religion. You do not need to worship something for it to be a legitimate religion. LaVeyan Satanism is in fact a religion, and if you actually think Buddhism is not a religion then you might want to do a little research. Did you even read before you type? I said that atheism is not a religion. It is a believe regarding the non-existence of a God. One belief stance regarding the non-existence of God is not enough to make a religion around. I know some irreligious atheist that would be quite offended for calling their disbelief in any Gods to be a religion. I said that LeVay Satanism and Buddhism are religions that are atheistic. Sorry, I miss read a little, happens often redface . Buddhism is atheistic in a way. LaVeyan Satanism can be atheist also but some people would argue that, consider I am one I kinda want to but can't cause I'm not really all that well at explaining it haha sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:55 am
rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra Dragoness Arleeana @Geek again: "the fall of man by a womans lust". If you are referring to when Eve ate the apple from the Garden of Eden, I've always had one question. If the bible DOES say that it was a womans "lust" that made her do it, then would that not mean sin was already within her being? Wouldn't that mean that she was CREATED with sin in her? Then would she really be the one to blame? I have not read that story in a long time, so I cannot remember the details. Sounds like a Mormon or Milton interpretation of the Fall. I was referring to the story of Samson and Delilah (bible) and Enkidu and Shamhat (Gilgamesh Epic). The stories are very similar because both the women were used to bring a strong man down to weakness with lustful ways. Different myths different purpose. Just glossing over the summary of the Enkidu myth, it seems to be about divinity in nature becoming civilized and part of urban/city culture. In Samson's myth you have a man who is given divine strength by a being for keeping an oath, he breaks that oath and looses his gift. He then gets his long hair back thus restoring his oath and then kicks a** against his capturers. Enkidu accepts his new life happy and even opposes his old way of living. The Enkidu myth is actually about him learning the ways of the world and the beginning into adulthood. Samson had already been with other women before Delilah, she was just the one that ended up betraying him, Enkidu had his innocence stolen. Enkidu didn't regret having his innocence stolen. Samson did regret losing his divine gifts. I never said he regretted it.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:53 pm
G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K I was referring to the story of Samson and Delilah (bible) and Enkidu and Shamhat (Gilgamesh Epic). The stories are very similar because both the women were used to bring a strong man down to weakness with lustful ways. Different myths different purpose. Just glossing over the summary of the Enkidu myth, it seems to be about divinity in nature becoming civilized and part of urban/city culture. In Samson's myth you have a man who is given divine strength by a being for keeping an oath, he breaks that oath and looses his gift. He then gets his long hair back thus restoring his oath and then kicks a** against his capturers. Enkidu accepts his new life happy and even opposes his old way of living. The Enkidu myth is actually about him learning the ways of the world and the beginning into adulthood. Samson had already been with other women before Delilah, she was just the one that ended up betraying him, Enkidu had his innocence stolen. Enkidu didn't regret having his innocence stolen. Samson did regret losing his divine gifts. I never said he regretted it. Then ow are they similar other than through surface details. The stories are conveying drastically different messages.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:55 pm
G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra Sapphirianna Believe it or not the term atheist means no religion whatsoever, but from my experience, they still have a religion. No Atheist means disbelief or no believe in a God. There are atheist religions such LeVey Satanism and Buddhism but atheism in and of it's self is not a religions. Atheism is the belief that there are no deities, yes. BUT it is a religion. You do not need to worship something for it to be a legitimate religion. LaVeyan Satanism is in fact a religion, and if you actually think Buddhism is not a religion then you might want to do a little research. Did you even read before you type? I said that atheism is not a religion. It is a believe regarding the non-existence of a God. One belief stance regarding the non-existence of God is not enough to make a religion around. I know some irreligious atheist that would be quite offended for calling their disbelief in any Gods to be a religion. I said that LeVay Satanism and Buddhism are religions that are atheistic. Sorry, I miss read a little, happens often redface . Buddhism is atheistic in a way. LaVeyan Satanism can be atheist also but some people would argue that, consider I am one I kinda want to but can't cause I'm not really all that well at explaining it haha sweatdrop It happens XD. I've done it too.
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:39 pm
rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K rmcdra G0TH1C G33K I was referring to the story of Samson and Delilah (bible) and Enkidu and Shamhat (Gilgamesh Epic). The stories are very similar because both the women were used to bring a strong man down to weakness with lustful ways. Different myths different purpose. Just glossing over the summary of the Enkidu myth, it seems to be about divinity in nature becoming civilized and part of urban/city culture. In Samson's myth you have a man who is given divine strength by a being for keeping an oath, he breaks that oath and looses his gift. He then gets his long hair back thus restoring his oath and then kicks a** against his capturers. Enkidu accepts his new life happy and even opposes his old way of living. The Enkidu myth is actually about him learning the ways of the world and the beginning into adulthood. Samson had already been with other women before Delilah, she was just the one that ended up betraying him, Enkidu had his innocence stolen. Enkidu didn't regret having his innocence stolen. Samson did regret losing his divine gifts. I never said he regretted it. Then ow are they similar other than through surface details. The stories are conveying drastically different messages. The similarities that I see are that both were very strong man that were feared, their enemies enlisted a woman to get to their weakness, and after the affair the man were too weak to be a threat any longer. The messages that they portray are irrelevant because who ever right the bible could have read Enkidu's story and decided to tweak it slightly, it happens all the time nowadays so why not back then as well.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:20 am
G0TH1C G33K The similarities that I see are that both were very strong man that were feared, their enemies enlisted a woman to get to their weakness, and after the affair the man were too weak to be a threat any longer. Yet they differ in endings, and Samson was still a threat in that he got his powers back. Also Samson w as a man, Enkidu is a god. This changes the plot since gods were equated with forces of nature, where as men were used as national symbols or goals to shoot for that were considered obtainable. Quote: The messages that they portray are irrelevant because who ever right the bible could have read Enkidu's story and decided to tweak it slightly, it happens all the time nowadays so why not back then as well. Not saying that it couldn't have happened, though if it was just tweaks, the tweaks are significant enough to make the story have a different message, different meaning, and different purpose altogether. The theme that you are suggesting that they share is common enough in the human experience that it's just as likely to be independent of each other. Not saying that Samson and Enkidu stories did develop independently, just that your reasons for saying that they are the same are shallow. It's like saying that The Mask is a ripoff of Ace Ventura because they both have Jim Carey and they are both comedies.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:52 am
I imagined it that way: The Bible says God created the world in seven days, right? And the scientists say it was all evolution and all that... Maybe God created the world like a painting. Every evolution is a detail of something. Like, a circle consists of million dots, and humans and animals and plants consist of millions of cells and DNA.
Oh, but it still doesn't explain the Garden of Eden....
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:26 am
The Garden of Eden is most likely the first canvas of "man" when we were finished with the recent evolution. At first we were cavemen, a creature that's more like the "animal man" so we worked like any animal would but once "freewill" was given, we began to think freely and not follow the "dna code" which told us how to work. So...we left.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:02 am
Cain Elite The Garden of Eden is most likely the first canvas of "man" when we were finished with the recent evolution. At first we were cavemen, a creature that's more like the "animal man" so we worked like any animal would but once "freewill" was given, we began to think freely and not follow the "dna code" which told us how to work. So...we left. Or it's a mythos trying to convey something that those Ancient Hebrews believed to be universal about Mankind, or their nation at least, using symbolism and allegory based on how they understood the world at the time of writing.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:41 am
rmcdra Cain Elite The Garden of Eden is most likely the first canvas of "man" when we were finished with the recent evolution. At first we were cavemen, a creature that's more like the "animal man" so we worked like any animal would but once "freewill" was given, we began to think freely and not follow the "dna code" which told us how to work. So...we left. Or it's a mythos trying to convey something that those Ancient Hebrews believed to be universal about Mankind, or their nation at least, using symbolism and allegory based on how they understood the world at the time of writing. That's how everything works it seems.
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:52 pm
rmcdra G0TH1C G33K The similarities that I see are that both were very strong man that were feared, their enemies enlisted a woman to get to their weakness, and after the affair the man were too weak to be a threat any longer. Yet they differ in endings, and Samson was still a threat in that he got his powers back. Also Samson w as a man, Enkidu is a god. This changes the plot since gods were equated with forces of nature, where as men were used as national symbols or goals to shoot for that were considered obtainable. Quote: The messages that they portray are irrelevant because who ever right the bible could have read Enkidu's story and decided to tweak it slightly, it happens all the time nowadays so why not back then as well. Not saying that it couldn't have happened, though if it was just tweaks, the tweaks are significant enough to make the story have a different message, different meaning, and different purpose altogether. The theme that you are suggesting that they share is common enough in the human experience that it's just as likely to be independent of each other. Not saying that Samson and Enkidu stories did develop independently, just that your reasons for saying that they are the same are shallow. It's like saying that The Mask is a ripoff of Ace Ventura because they both have Jim Carey and they are both comedies. They're not my reasonings though. I was only stating possibilities. The Jim Carey comparison really didn't make sense too me. The movies only had the actor as similarities. The Samson and Enkidu stories had plot similarities.
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