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 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:08 pm
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Captain Verd liz_bliz If batman showed up at my front door and told me to do something I'd sure as hell do it. Otherwise the fight that endsued might have destroyed the planet. I think most people would. Except Superman, but he already respects women, and if Frank Miller was in charge they'd end up making out.
You h0r! Don't you know that Batman only loves Robin Nightwing the Joker Two-face Catwoman?! |
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:37 am
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CrabappleRed Captain Verd liz_bliz If batman showed up at my front door and told me to do something I'd sure as hell do it. Otherwise the fight that endsued might have destroyed the planet. I think most people would. Except Superman, but he already respects women, and if Frank Miller was in charge they'd end up making out. You h0r! Don't you know that Batman only loves Robin Nightwing the Joker Two-face Catwoman?! |
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:40 pm
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:33 pm
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Resolute Infliction Why did that let people down? Taking a vow of protection is a show of responsibility. He didnt force her. And we all know that Kurenai is a butt kicker. She went up against Itachi himself. People interpet things oddly nowadays.. ._.
*laugh* it depends on your perspective. I'm not saying that what Shikamaru did was a Bad Thing. It was very nice of him to want to help, and it's the decent, human thing to do.
My issue is that I don't see very many possitive role modles for single mothers, and I'm disapointed at loosing one. Not very disapointed, because this is a shounen manga written by a man, but still.
It's always perfectly fine for a man to be the sole supporter of his family. Hey, a guy has a kid, three kids, half a dozen? He's fine! He can work and look after the house and family no problem!
But a woman wants to go it alone? Quick, someone get a man in there! Hey, even a young boy! It doesn't matter as long as it has a p***s! And you can bet that if she has a son, he'll grow up wanting to protect his mom. Because that's what the "man of the house" does.
I'd like to see the reverse once or twice. I'd like to see people pitching in to help the single guys, I'd like to see people assume the woman can do it alone. Because woman can do it alone, and sometimes single guys do need help. *shrug*
Other than that, I don't have much of an issue with Shikamaru's vow. Of course, I'm not the person claiming Kishimoto hates women. wink |
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:08 am
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:55 am
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:40 pm
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Captain Verd attila the fun Resolute Infliction Why did that let people down? Taking a vow of protection is a show of responsibility. He didnt force her. And we all know that Kurenai is a butt kicker. She went up against Itachi himself. People interpet things odly nowadays.. ._. Yes, she did, but if I remember correctly she did nothing but the tree jutsu, which Itachi got out of, and then I think she did something else that was useless. She was more like backup for the guys. Or just there by accident.
On her way to a knitting circle. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:44 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:46 am
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:45 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:53 am
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I dunno, I find that all the women are developing into strong characters. So what if some of them where skimpy clothing? Is Sasuke's gay outfit any better? Sai's? Shikamaru's fishnets?
I've found the female characters as rather strong. Sure, some have their weak moments...but so do some of the guys. o0 they've developed from children into kick a** shinobi, and the fact the girls are strong and likeable is one of the reasons I like naruto, and the majority of the characters, so much.
Quote: Healer: Tsunade, Sakura, Ino, Shizune, Hana* Heels/Chick Dress: Tsunade, Shizune, Tenten, Hinata, Sakura, Temari**, Anko*** Womanly Weakness/Power: Tsunade, Sakura, Ino, Hinata, Anko, Kurenai, Hana
woah, way to simplify everything. Tsunade and Sakura, aside from being healers, have kickass strength. It's also the basic 3. Brains, Brawn and Healing. Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura. Intelligence, Strength and Backup. There is nothing demeaning about them being their to HELP rather than in the thick of the fight.
Also, Tsunade and Sakura are amazingly strong characters [I don't know the other 3 much, except Ino really grew after the chunnin exams. She was 12 at the time, give her a break. She was a KID]
Tsunade and Sakura are the back bone, and you can't demean the whole healer thing as pathetic because you don't see it as something strong and independent. Without those two, the shinobi would die out!
What's wrong with them wearing little clothing? It gives for ease of movement and disarms the opposition. It also makes the fans happy. The boys are also wearing clothes to make them look good, and some of them are scantily clad... no-one says that demeans them? It's hardly bad to appreciate the female body.
Yeah, those women have weaknesses...but so do ALL the shinobi. yes, ALL. Sasuke is power hungry, Naruto is brash and loud, Sakura lacks confidence, same with Hinata, Shikamaru is a lazy coward, Kiba is stupid etc etc. But you'll also notice that every. single. one. of. those. characters. is remedying their "weaknesses", have done so, or are in the process. There is nothing wrong with the characters having true and honest faults like Jiraiya's pervertedness of Tsunade's gambling. It's human...
and much preferable to where a manga-ka will make their faults to NOT be so bad. i.e "too nice for their own good, too good looking, overly caring, klutz" -gag-
Quote: With the recent development of Kurenai's baby, many fans of Independant Women were let down when Shikamaru vowed to assist in the care of the child. This development caused me to start thinking about other ways Kishimoto let Independant Women fans down throughout the story.
I see nothing wrong with Shikamaru offering to help. Kurenai is a working kunoichi. Having someone to help around the house with the child isn't weak, it's common sense. She's still very independent and I don't see how her being human and female is a let down?
Plus, isn't Sakura's mother a single mom? She seems quite strong and able to me, for a civilian. I'm sure she had help from family friends in raising our cherry blossom
Quote: Kin was disgusted that Ino and Sakura "shampooed"/took care of their hair, making her gross. By being gross, she's just another woman he doesn't like.
How can you assume Kishimoto thinks of Kin as gross because she looked down on Ino and Sakura? I thought it was a great scare tactic and showed that a woman can be strong and not care about hygiene.
Quote: Tayuya talks like a man and has a very foul mouth. I thought she was a dude when she first showed up. Doesn't fit.
Wait, so you reckon he's not showing women to their full potential, yet having a very masculine one is bad? It's personality variety, it's really cool! Much better than having simpering, glorified females like in Ah! My goddess and the like. Kishimoto's females are HUMAN. heart
Quote: Mikoto, although a jounin, dropped her job to take care of her kids, as did Yoshino and Neji's mom.
That's not bad though. It is not weak for a shinobi to retire to look after the next generation. They found a better use for their talents. This doesn't undermine them in anyway and is but another variety in personalities. A good thing.
Quote: The only woman who seems able to not only take care of herself, but remain womanly is Tsume. Hooray for Kiba's mom.
I don't agree with that statement. You seem to be implying that the only way a female character is awesome is if she can look after herself... but remains suitably female? WTF?
Not a single bit of this points to Kishimoto disliking females. if anything, Kishimoto is one of the FEW manga-ka out there who has not completely insulted the female gender by making them big eyed, shoujo things needing a hero.
Instead, what we have is various female personalities ranging from Sakura who gained confidence in herself and wasn't cliché beauty with her large forehead, to Tayuya, who shows that not all females ACT female.
To me, it sounds very much like you only want girls who ACT female, but can look after them self. From what I've seen ALL Kishimoto's characters are strong and independent, and of varying degrees of femininity. It's not a weakness to get help, and it's all rather realistic.
Sorry, but all your statements irk me so much, settling on one mold as the perfect independent woman and ignoring the versatility and variety in the females of kishimoto...when it's the main reason I watch the show. Because the girl's are strong and if they have a weakness, they work on improving it.
The males are full of flaws that they work on too. Because no human is perfect.
It's almost like it's BAD to be a female doing something like medic... and what about all the girls in warrior roles? Tenten? Temari?
Seriously, it's not insulting or bad until people make it so...and it certainly doesn't mean the manga-ka hates women because he gave them all different roles. Some a major heroes [sasuke, naruto, sakura], others are the back bone of support [moegi, hinata, shino, kiba, ino]. Not everyone can be amazingly "perfect" in whatever your idea of perfect is.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:45 am
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WeaverMage I dunno, I find that all the women are developing into strong characters. So what if some of them where skimpy clothing? Is Sasuke's gay outfit any better? Sai's? Shikamaru's fishnets?
Sasuke's gay outfit isn't anything like female outfits, and I wish more dudes would dress like Sai. He's such a f**.
Quote: Quote: Healer: Tsunade, Sakura, Ino, Shizune, Hana* Heels/Chick Dress: Tsunade, Shizune, Tenten, Hinata, Sakura, Temari**, Anko*** Womanly Weakness/Power: Tsunade, Sakura, Ino, Hinata, Anko, Kurenai, Hana woah, way to simplify everything. Tsunade and Sakura, aside from being healers, have kickass strength. It's also the basic 3. Brains, Brawn and Healing. Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura. Intelligence, Strength and Backup. There is nothing demeaning about them being their to HELP rather than in the thick of the fight.
They have strength, but they're still in the stereotype of the healer. If he wanted them to really use their kickass strength, Sakura could have taken the Sasuke-type role. Despite their strength, they're still put in the woman's role.
Why does the healer have to be a woman? There's nothing demeaning about it, but that doesn't change the fact that he outs women in the healer role more than he does men.
Quote: Also, Tsunade and Sakura are amazingly strong characters [I don't know the other 3 much, except Ino really grew after the chunnin exams. She was 12 at the time, give her a break. She was a KID] Tsunade and Sakura are the back bone, and you can't demean the whole healer thing as pathetic because you don't see it as something strong and independent. Without those two, the shinobi would die out!
I'm not saying being a nurse is a bad thing. I don't think being a healer is demeaning, just that it's stereotypical.
Quote: What's wrong with them wearing little clothing? It gives for ease of movement and disarms the opposition. It also makes the fans happy. The boys are also wearing clothes to make them look good, and some of them are scantily clad... no-one says that demeans them? It's hardly bad to appreciate the female body.
You say their clothes make it easier to move around, yet the men go around wearing pants all the time. If it were easier to move around, why wouldn't they all dress like Sai? Besides, Ino is wearing a miniskirt and fishnet shorts. And guess what? High heels don't help anyone move faster. Sakura, Tenten, Tsunade, Shizune, an Hinata all wear heels. How does that help them move faster?
Quote: I see nothing wrong with Shikamaru offering to help. Kurenai is a working kunoichi. Having someone to help around the house with the child isn't weak, it's common sense. She's still very independent and I don't see how her being human and female is a let down?
It's like saying a woman can't take care of a kid herself.
Quote: Plus, isn't Sakura's mother a single mom?
No.
Quote: How can you assume Kishimoto thinks of Kin as gross because she looked down on Ino and Sakura? I thought it was a great scare tactic and showed that a woman can be strong and not care about hygiene.
It's a tactic to make her be a bad guy. If you notice, Dosu's a freak, Zaku's an a*****e, and Kin doesn't take care of herself. Does she wash her hands after she uses the bathroom? No, because she's evil.
Um ew, everyone should care about their hygiene. That's disgusting.
Quote: Wait, so you reckon he's not showing women to their full potential, yet having a very masculine one is bad? It's personality variety, it's really cool! Much better than having simpering, glorified females like in Ah! My goddess and the like. Kishimoto's females are HUMAN. heart
He's showing she's a bad guy because she doesn't act like a woman "should". Everyone on her team is an obvious bad guy because of the way they look. You can tell Kidoumaru is a bad guy because he has 8 arms. You can tell Tayuya is a bad guy because she acts and looks like a dude.
Quote: That's not bad though. It is not weak for a shinobi to retire to look after the next generation. They found a better use for their talents. This doesn't undermine them in anyway and is but another variety in personalities. A good thing.
Whether you think it's a good thing or not is beside the point. Women staying home to take care of the kids is a stereotype.
Quote: I don't agree with that statement. You seem to be implying that the only way a female character is awesome is if she can look after herself... but remains suitably female? WTF?
Nope. I like Sakura, Ino, and Tsunade too. I'm just saying Tsume is one of the only ones not fitting the big woman stereotype.
Quote: Not a single bit of this points to Kishimoto disliking females. if anything, Kishimoto is one of the FEW manga-ka out there who has not completely insulted the female gender by making them big eyed, shoujo things needing a hero. Instead, what we have is various female personalities ranging from Sakura who gained confidence in herself and wasn't cliché beauty with her large forehead, to Tayuya, who shows that not all females ACT female.
Sakura is supposed to have a big forehead, but she's also supposed to be attractive. That's why people like Naruto say she's cute LOL. If she really had a big forhead that made her unattractive, Kishimoto would draw her with one.
Quote: It's almost like it's BAD to be a female doing something like medic... and what about all the girls in warrior roles? Tenten? Temari?
Tenten wears high heels. Temari wears miniskirts all the time.
Quote: Not everyone can be amazingly "perfect" in whatever your idea of perfect is. |
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:42 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:37 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:23 am
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