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FrozenPhoenix32

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:45 pm
right then..  
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Cale, you thinkin' of pickin' up any other major Capships?  

PaulTheWolf5575


Sol Walker
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:18 am
Oh you know, maybe a couple VSDs, or perhaps an ISD, maybe even a Mon Cal or two....
Y'know, whatever they may have in stock.  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:03 am
VSDs always make good pirate ships.

To the point that the NR had to reissue VSDs so that they could be used to pirate hunt the VSDs.  

FrozenPhoenix32


Nelowulf
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:29 am
I just have trouble on how pirate groups got 6k+ people to man the things.

I mean, where do you find 6000 honest pirates?  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:35 am
hmmmm...well I was more thinkin' a couple of Kaloth's maybe a couple of modified Bulk Cruisers...or a procurator or 2...perhaps a pair of Corellian Frigates

EDIT:
Procurator: http://warlords.swrebellion.com/shipindex.php?vessel=Procurator+Heavy+Cruiser&querytype=&search_string=&sorttype=&sortdir=
Corellian Frigate: http://warlords.swrebellion.com/shipindex.php?vessel=Corellian+Light+Frigate&querytype=&search_string=&sorttype=&sortdir=
Corellian Heavy Frigate: http://warlords.swrebellion.com/shipindex.php?vessel=Corellian+Heavy+Frigate&querytype=&search_string=&sorttype=&sortdir=  

PaulTheWolf5575


Sol Walker
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:57 pm
They only made a handful of Kaloths I thought.
As for 6000 or so loyal pirates, you'd be suprised how easily pirates band together in numbers. And for the most part, they get along pretty well.
Unlike Sith, who constantly seek to kill each other. The Sith of olden times always seemed able to mass up huge navies and armies, despite continual backstabbings andtreachery. And if Sith can work together in such numbers, even for a limited amount of time, Pirates should have little trouble massing in numbers.
Success is what determines a pirate crew's loyalty. If the Captain can continue to bring in the Haul, they won't interfere with a good thing.

By the way, why are you asking about me picking up some Cap ships?  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:02 pm
Just wonderin'...I was parsing Cap. Ship classes and wondered if you were gonna get anymore, cause I had a couple of suggestions...  

PaulTheWolf5575


Sol Walker
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:30 pm
PaulTheWolf5575
Just wonderin'...I was parsing Cap. Ship classes and wondered if you were gonna get anymore, cause I had a couple of suggestions...

Ah.
Well it takes Quite a bit of effort for non legitamite governments to aquire Capital Ships. My big frigate had to be taken by force, not an easy thing to do when you have inferior numbers.
This is the usuall method of warship aquisition for my proffession as military grade cap ships are usually five times as expensive on the black market. No one has that kind of money aside from the Hutts.  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:47 pm
Band together in numbers?

Please, I've yet to see a fleet of pirates all supporting one cause.

And no matter how much you bring in, there is always the idea and thought that if there was just one less person, that means that much more for you.

Crew for a Viceroy is about 6100, not including repair and maitnence personell, fightercraft, or anything of that sort. That also does not account for the crew of supporting vessels, such as frigates and corvettes, which often have numbers from anywhere of 10-400, along with those crews which must man the cargo ships, since the star destroyer and supporting craft are ill-designed for such capacity.

Also, you have to have a working intelligence network, partially to see what's coming in and going out, but also to make sure nobody finds out of your little operation, which also can be counted as crew.

So, along with bribes (for information networks), parts, crew, and the heavy mainence of ships, along with docking fees, parts taxes, relative dealings which may take the form of taxes, you must start looking at what you'll be doing.

If you had such numbers, simply attacking a freighter would be worthless. You would have to attack and nullify entire trade routes at one time, not just picking off the random convoy.

its economically unfeasable. And that doesn't even account for having to put up with the hassle of base maintainence, nor the occassional mutiny which is bound to happen with a crew that size.

One man cannot lead 6000 people. Show me someone who can, and I'll show you how you are wrong.

If you manage to subjugate 6000 people, it is not because you're bringing in cash to pay them. It is because you have become a military, with punishments so severe and a hierarchy that maintains a complexity that make people have a job to do, or be replaced.

Simple economics at work. You're working off a ration system as a pirate, not a capitalistic one. Therefore, your resources are always limited, and according to the law of finite resources, your resources will always be unable to satiate the unlimited demand of your people. And in a ration system, where the people have a cognitive notion that there is a limited amount to go around, nature demands that those who, despite everyone getting a fair share, demand more, despite the fact that there is none.

Your system would create a breakdown, as the crew would either mutiny, or erupt in a complete chaotic state.

I'll even put it into an outrageous example so you see the effects: Say you are able to keep rolling in profits. Say that not only are these profits reasonable, but more than reasonable. Every man can buy his own starship every raid.

Soon you have a bunch of guys who have accumulated too much wealth. Some will quit, causing a backlash in your pirating economy which means people gain even more of the share than before. Of course, we assume that only a small number left, however, if a large number left, your efficiency would go down due to less personel.

After several leave, you have two options: continue stockpiling wealth, which you are unable to dispose of quick enough, or expand. If you expand during this time (which you already have done, you bought more ships and hired more crew) you make up for the loss of manpower, and limit the profit share to a more reasonable facade.

However, this constant process of growth has its limits. You will only be able to grow enough to match your profits. If you continue growth, you will be unable to keep up with the rising costs (which are exponential, whereas revenue is only relative) of the operations.

This, thereinfore, means you have a plateau, otherwise known as the profit-maximizing margin. As you go from increasing profit, to diminishing returns (still goes up, but less profit per increase), you will hit this plateau.

However, in your situation, this plateau is a point which you must never reach, because your entire reputation is based on the ability to not only provide, but grow your operation. Otherwise, your crew begisn to doubt your ability to become successful.

Say you hit this plateau (which is bound to happen). You cannot get any more profit (because the income is too small, and the costs are too high.) you will be forced then, to downsize your fleet, which means people will become angry at getting laid off, and also lose confidence as the system must recover lost funds.

Your crew will hit a wall which they finally realize that they have reached their high point, and will probably assume that it must go down from there. This will cause a moral crisis, as you the captian, must somehow get rid of people and equiptment, but yet maintian a crew which is willing.

You either must (A) start pulling stupid stunts to kill off your men and machines, (B) face the wrath of your 40,000 man crew, all who are growing impatient, and as they are not like the military, and just like you, don't like being given the boot and cheated out of whats rightfully theirs, or (C) Become even more severe, and become a militaristic dictator, which might provoke crew reactions.

You may wish to protest this, but you must realize one thing: You work in a ration system, no matter how much you protest. Which means you end up like every historical example. Look at the USSR. Its gone. Look at Cuba. They've gone to limited capitalism, and now use the restaraunts as grocery stores.

This is the eventual fate of a pirate fleet. All thwarted by the economic principals everyone else is governed by. A Pirate, through and through, must never be too successful, or else he risks his own empire, the megalomanial empire which he based off his own greed (even the church befalls this problem), crumbling. But he must be more successful than others by far and away to make people believe in the system, and make it work.

Which ends with me saying, "Its better to burn out, then to fade away." The famous pirates never lived to old age. They died well before their prime. adn the old pirates... History doesn't like a loser.

Want more proof, need I point out the HHGG's example of Magrathea?  

Nelowulf
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:47 pm
In a Universe where microscopic cells give normal people super powers, where spaceships made of coral somehow conquer an entire galaxy, where sasquatches fly starships and time is measured in parsecs, one whiny fan decides to make an a** of himself. Gleefully ignoring gaping plot holes, continuity errors, and psuedo science, he seeks to bring real world ecconomics and facts in a galaxy that as yet has done just fine ignoring reality thus far.
Nelowulf stars as himself in:
"Realistic" Space Fantasy*

The Oxymoron lives on, in Nelo's head.


*(this whiny outburst from Nelo has not yet been rated.)  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:03 pm
Sometimes you're too realistic Cale. You got to learn to live in a fantasy world man.

Its called imagination. Now come join the rest of us in fantasy.  

Nelowulf
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Sol Walker
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:05 pm
Nelowulf
Sometimes you're too realistic Cale. You got to learn to live in a fantasy world man.

Its called imagination. Now come join the rest of us in fantasy.

Dude, I have a bi-weekly D&D group.
don't talk to me about fantasy.  
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:07 pm
No need to get snippy. Sometimes I just dont' follow your insanity.

I'm the one on the medication, so if I can't follow you, nobody can.  

Nelowulf
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Sol Walker
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:10 pm
Nelowulf
No need to get snippy. Sometimes I just dont' follow your insanity.

I'm the one on the medication, so if I can't follow you, nobody can.

Damn stupid type. I can never broadcast tone.

I'm going on about three hours sleep over a two day period. I think I can comprehend vaguely what yer goin through.  
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The Second Imperium

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