DronzeRants... Shoot me again, I ain't dead yet.

[Bellabie]

Dronze

Perception of self gratification,

I should think.
It's sort of funny, though, because I think that self-gratification reigns over all of the others, in the end. I mean, to do what one perceives as "Right," they must act upon satisfying a gradient or good or bad which is ultimately decided by themselves. (Of course, there are influences upon this.)

It's really not well said. It just bothers me when everyone decides to go after someone. I do not like to handle situations in the manner that Master Dronze does.
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[dronze]

Despite it's format, this is NOT a DronzeRant.

Bellabie

I do not think that at any point we proved anything to be fact.

Would you like me to do a dissertation on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, or perhaps psychological studies done at any point in the past 75 years?

I don't mean to come across as a cynic here, but I could even go as far as pointing out that charity work is a prime example of self-induced Pavlovian response...

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Presented was only one side.

2 sides, it's not my fault that the side arguing that they would keep doing charity work with complete neutrality or utter bitterness even if I started cutting them with a jagged, rusty piece of sheet-metal every time they did an act of charity or kindness couldn't actually provide any real evidence to support their point.

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Is not trivializing something an act of discouragement?

Trivializing something is only an act of discouragement if the one being discouraged originally held so much stock with so little solid conviction in what they were doing and, more to the point, the underlying reasons of why they were doing it.

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Dronze makes assumptions in saying that Avenger is thanked for what he does

ummm....

Avenger

All we have gotten out of it is a thank yuo from those who run the place.

is all I have to say to that....

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and attacks him when personal experience is his citation, despite the fact that it is merely an example.

Because he made only a biased analysis of what he was presenting and actually contradicted himself when citing it as a counterargument.

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He is not asking people to pay him any respects, he is merely using this for justification of his point.

I never said that the reasoning was outwardly demanded, simply that it was a percieved possibility, and perception of consequence before actually taking an action is how we determine whether or not to do something, even if that consequence is merely feeling better about oneself and getting a simple "Thank you for helping".

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In regards to Dronze's statement of others looking to "step into" a debate, I must make note that his first contention may be turned and extended to say that, in fact, by wishing these things, you are in fact, furthering a benefit to society by your survival and well being.

If you are referring to the "XYZ opinion is wrong because I say so.", comment, then might I point out that wishing anything on the basis of ignorance and gullibility does more damage to society than anything else.

Christianity, and any other Judeo-Christian, political activist, environmentalist, or sociopolitical activist group, and the psychotic zealots that come out of the woodwork in their name do more damage to their own cause by presenting biased and incomplete data samples while ignoring anything that may be contrary to their own cause instead of actually trying to make thier base argument accurate and true before the evidence to their argument before it even hits the table.

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I suppose my main trouble here is that it is decided that what Dronze stated was fact although he didn't actually present any evidence, either.

I can get evidence for everything I've presented so far with citation, if you like.

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the way that members attacked one-another was unfair, that is all.

I have not made any motion at attacking anybody of any consequence in this argument.... and the willingly ignorant are never of any consequence in my personal view.  

[The_Last_Avenger]

dronze...you never simply answer a statement, do you? you always come out with long and complicated answers. it is a lot easier to simply answer what is given and not complicate things.  

[dronze]

The_Last_Avenger

dronze...you never simply answer a statement, do you? you always come out with long and complicated answers. it is a lot easier to simply answer what is given and not complicate things.

You are absolutely correct, for once.

I don't simplify things... I do get long winded, and I do make arguments that do more than scratch the surface. It's part of who I am. If you want me to give a very simple reason for this, I will:


I DON'T CATER TO MORONS.

Simple enough for you?  

[Blackova]

.......Damn......that was....epic....pure gold, there, Dronze D;  

[Bellabie]

dronze

Would you like me to do a dissertation on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, or perhaps psychological studies done at any point in the past 75 years?

No, sir, I wish you to cite something because you have not and are just as unfounded as your opponent.

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2 sides, it's not my fault that the side arguing that they would keep doing charity work with complete neutrality or utter bitterness even if I started cutting them with a jagged, rusty piece of sheet-metal every time they did an act of charity or kindness couldn't actually provide any real evidence to support their point.

I suppose you are correct. My approach to debate tends to set allowances for what must be set as grounds, in agreement. This is to say, I present the sides opposite to mine.
I do not understand what you mean by "utter bitterness." I believe that the point that was made or was attempted by Master Avenger was to point at the fact that it is not done for his benefit. Merely because this is so does not mean that the act is unpleasant.
Furthermore, it would have been silly to present anything to support this because the argument was not over diligence, but sincerity, and I do not think that it does any great good to society to be hacked to bits by rusty metal, either.

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Trivializing something is only an act of discouragement if the one being discouraged originally held so much stock with so little solid conviction in what they were doing and, more to the point, the underlying reasons of why they were doing it.

You speak only of the perceived. My question was regarding the one who spoke. I asked if you meant to discourage such acts by stating such things, not if people were discouraged by you.

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ummm....

Avenger

All we have gotten out of it is a thank yuo from those who run the place.

is all I have to say to that....

Ah, yes. I misspoke. Apologies.

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Because he made only a biased analysis of what he was presenting and actually contradicted himself when citing it as a counterargument.

Your analysis is equally biased, though, sir. Please do not bring up bias. No one is objective.
Was the contradiction really founded in the fact that it was his experience or did you add that separately? (I can't tell.)

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I never said that the reasoning was outwardly demanded, simply that it was a perceivedSorry, habit. - b possibility, and perception of consequence before actually taking an action is how we determine whether or not to do something, even if that consequence is merely feeling better about oneself and getting a simple "Thank you for helping".

Yes, our perceived notion of the outcome is what helps us to judge whether or not we should take certain actions, but, unless you are a mind reader, I do not think that you should state that this is what he believed going into his service.
I agree that your four points hold true in most every instance, but I do not think that we can state assumptions of a person's thought-process to be fact. Is this so wrong?
It could have been as much a perceived possibility to thanked as to be spit in the face or shanked.

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If you are referring to the "XYZ opinion is wrong because I say so.", comment, then might I point out that wishing anything on the basis of ignorance and gullibility does more damage to society than anything else.

Ah, no, I organized that poorly. I meant to say that your first contention, regarding the ultimate self-benefit of all of these things, could be turned and extended to say that you would merely hope to benefit yourself because it would advance such acts, in society, and make you more capable of achieving them.

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Christianity, and any other Judeo-Christian, political activist, environmentalist, or sociopolitical activist group, and the psychotic zealots that come out of the woodwork in their name do more damage to their own cause by presenting biased and incomplete data samples while ignoring anything that may be contrary to their own cause instead of actually trying to make theirSorry, again. - b base argument accurate and true before the evidence to their argument before it even hits the table.

This is true. It is best to hear out your opponent and move from there.
Your statement was made in response to something that I wrote, poorly, so I shall not go further than that.

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I can get evidence for everything I've presented so far with citation, if you like.

Once more, not everything something. It's highly hypocritical of both of us to keep going on like this because your main attack on Avenger was his lac of evidence, was it not? I am not meaning to state that you are wrong so much as that you are as unreliable.

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I have not made any motion at attacking anybody of any consequence in this argument.... and the willingly ignorant are never of any consequence in my personal view.

You

...I WILL go to every convenientSorry. - b length to completely discredit every word you post on this guild...

Perhaps I've read this wrong. Is this not attacking? It seemed rather threatening. Of course, you and I tend to see such things very differently, so I understand if you believe further action ought to take place to warrant such a title as "attack."
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[Blackova]

Just shut up already. Dronze is just trying end it and yet, you people keep bringing it up. Grow up and just end the argument already.  

[LanceCalvis]

Blackova

Just shut up already. Dronze is just trying end it and yet, you people keep bringing it up. Grow up and just end the argument already.

The argument itself is from all sides. Dronze is just as guilty for continuing the argument as every one of the other parties involved myself included. Trying to act like a neutral party like you are is a rather unwise thing to do. If anything you only add fuel to the fire. And it's certainly not more mature to act like this.  

[The_Last_Avenger]

well said bella...again...and if you go back and read my reference, I mentioned only once that I had begun to help, but the reference was actually about my friend who helps EVERY month.

As for Blackova...well lance beat me to it...but uh...dronz is by no means attempting to end it. I had stated that this argument should just stop because it was going nowhere, and he came back with another attack.  

[Demonic Repentance]

How far are you...

Avenger, be quiet already. I think if you stop talking, the arguement might actually die out on its own.

While amusing to a (very) small degree, this is annoying. Personally, I agree with Dronze.

And... cue not talking about this ever again.

...from the neverending chaos?

 

[Bellabie]

I'm sorry, friends. I didn't mean to upset you so. I merely was head-strong and needed to respond because I felt intimidated by Dronze's post. Sorry. I hadn't meant to bother you so.
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[Demonic Repentance]

How far are you...

I thought I said not to talk about it anymore!...s**t, now I did it.

...from the neverending chaos?

 

[The_Last_Avenger]

you're telling me to stop demonic? I had already said that this subject should be dropped...if you want someone to shut up then tell dronze, since he's the one who brought it back up after I said to drop it.

And bella...there is no need for you to apologize. You stated what you saw and if people were upset by it then so be it.  

[Bellabie]

With all due respect, you are wrong, sir. I upset people, and for that I am sorry.
The subject will likely not be dropped until Dronze responds, for he shall have the final word on this matter. Doesn't that seem fair?
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[Blackova]

The_Last_Avenger

well said bella...again...and if you go back and read my reference, I mentioned only once that I had begun to help, but the reference was actually about my friend who helps EVERY month.

As for Blackova...well lance beat me to it...but uh...dronz is by no means attempting to end it. I had stated that this argument should just stop because it was going nowhere, and he came back with another attack.

Meh, I'm just going to stay out of this but guys, we have a PM system for a reason. Please don't argue here, that will just create spam. Goes for both, dronze, even though it's his topic, and all of you.