Deities

[Ravynne Sidhe]

circlelord13

Ravynne Sidhe

circlelord13

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

circlelord13

1. if a witch does worship satan, then they are not witches they are usually referred to as Black Magickians...

Black Magickians? And how does what deity a witch worships determines if they're truely a witch or not?

a witch, by modern terms, in what a witch is and isnt is in the definition of the wicca: Witches do not believe in a personification of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil" as defined by Christian Tradition. Witches do worship the God as the "Horned One," the Consort of the Goddess, and a living symbol of fertility, joy and love. During the times of the Inquisition, the Christian Church declared that the ancient Horned God of the Pagans was actually the Devil. They extracted signed confessions, acknowledging the devil as the leader of the witches, by subjecting thousands of innocent people, mostly women, to horrific torture, imprisonment and death.

There is a religious movement called Satanism, which began during the Middle Ages as a political-religious protest to the control exerted over the masses by the Church. Satanism continues to this day under a variety of names. Satanism has nothing to do with witchcraft.....

I'm sorry but Satanism does have to deal with witchcraft. There is a such thing as Satanic witches that do practice witchcraft.

Also no witches were killed in the Witch Trials. They were all Christians from poor, middle and even upper class people who were BOTH men and women. :s Stop reading Silver Ravenwolf for ******** sakes.

and yes there WERE witches killed in the witch trials, my ancestor was tried and burned at the stake for being a witch! they found her altar, and her tools! so its pretty damn ignorant to insult my heritage by disgracing the
burning times!

Proof for that assertation?

Seriously, my heritage has been marred by the Holocaust, and I can actually back up any claims that my great-grandmother was thrown in the concentration camps simply because it ACTUALLY ******** HAPPENED!  

[xX-Heathenborn-Xx]

Sanguina Cruenta

circlelord13

1. if a witch does worship satan, then they are not witches they are usually referred to as Black Magicians...

Why?

(Fixed your spelling.)

Quote:

2.most of my sources for Aradia come from Raven Grimassi and Aradia the gospel of the Witches,

I am NOT a Grimassi fan. xp I must admit. Although didn't even he say Aradia was a person in the middle ages?

Quote:

3. BY THE GODS I WISH I WAS A PALEO-PAGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i want to be because then i would actually see the true teachings of that time....

The true teachings of that might not be all that appealing to us, as modern people. I would like to visit, though. It would be nice to grab all that information and then teleport back.

i agree with the time travel thing and yes he said Aradia was a mortal, but it could be like the christian story of jesus, but instead Diana, was brought to earth in human form by a human and mortal mother,
when she got old enough she taught witchcraft as her gospel, and as not to scare her followers, claimed her MOTHER was diana instead of herself.... these are my beliefs gathered from my personal beliefs and aradian sources  

[xX-Heathenborn-Xx]

Sanguina Cruenta

circlelord13

and yes there WERE witches killed in the witch trials, my ancestor was tried and burned at the stake for being a witch! they found her altar, and her tools! so its pretty damn ignorant to insult my heritage by disgracing the
burning times!

Cool story, bro.

Take your trolling elsewhere. Nice try, though.

i am not trying to troll... i was merely stating that its rude to belittle the burning times when my family is involved....  

[Esiris]

oOGarrettOo

I just finished saying that Raven Grimassi is a horrible source on Stregheria. Nothing of what he talks about in that book has to do with Traditional Stregheria because the traditions were all familial! Each family did things differently. Grimassi claims that he's giving real facts about Italian witchcraft when really he's simply tooting his own horn and restating crap that's spewed the same about Wicca. Grimassi is awful and not a valid source on Italian Witchcraft.

I'm pretty far off spiritually from Strega and this could just be my impression- based on growing up with the kind of religion that comes about from Catholicism trampling pagan religions because slave owners and stuff were Catholic- but wouldn't the kind of "Catholicism" that tended to get people excommunicated be a good place to start?

Sang- he might not be a troll, he could just be mistaken or going through that awkward phase. sweatdrop  

[xX-Heathenborn-Xx]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

circlelord13

yes but i prefer newly reconstructed traditions rather than modern invented ones.... pagan reconstructionism is the continuation of ancient pagan teachings, however a few "new" elements may be incorporated.... but none of the ancient traditions are removed for its place.... so no we are the continuation of the old religion of paganism... not New religion pagans new pagans

I am aware of what Recon is. I am a Kemetic Pagan.

But I see it as this. Sang is right in saying that we are NeoPagans. We are not able to worship the same way the ancients did due to losses in the information. Thus having to change and add to what we have and rebuilding the religion makes it new again since there is no way to make it exactly like it was.

damn... guess your right XD  

[oOGarrettOo]

circlelord13

if Raven is so "horrible" then why dont you give me factual information or books i can get on the subject?

There aren't any, because the craft was private and very particular about whom they taught. Outsiders not allowed.  

[xX-Heathenborn-Xx]

Ravynne Sidhe

circlelord13

Ravynne Sidhe

circlelord13

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

circlelord13

1. if a witch does worship satan, then they are not witches they are usually referred to as Black Magickians...

Black Magickians? And how does what deity a witch worships determines if they're truely a witch or not?

a witch, by modern terms, in what a witch is and isnt is in the definition of the wicca: Witches do not believe in a personification of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil" as defined by Christian Tradition. Witches do worship the God as the "Horned One," the Consort of the Goddess, and a living symbol of fertility, joy and love. During the times of the Inquisition, the Christian Church declared that the ancient Horned God of the Pagans was actually the Devil. They extracted signed confessions, acknowledging the devil as the leader of the witches, by subjecting thousands of innocent people, mostly women, to horrific torture, imprisonment and death.

There is a religious movement called Satanism, which began during the Middle Ages as a political-religious protest to the control exerted over the masses by the Church. Satanism continues to this day under a variety of names. Satanism has nothing to do with witchcraft.....

I'm sorry but Satanism does have to deal with witchcraft. There is a such thing as Satanic witches that do practice witchcraft.

Also no witches were killed in the Witch Trials. They were all Christians from poor, middle and even upper class people who were BOTH men and women. :s Stop reading Silver Ravenwolf for ******** sakes.

and yes there WERE witches killed in the witch trials, my ancestor was tried and burned at the stake for being a witch! they found her altar, and her tools! so its pretty damn ignorant to insult my heritage by disgracing the
burning times!

Proof for that assertation?

Seriously, my heritage has been marred by the Holocaust, and I can actually back up any claims that my great-grandmother was thrown in the concentration camps simply because it ACTUALLY ******** HAPPENED!

my proof is history itself.... and you need not cuss me out.... i am reasonable and am not yelling.... please go take your trolling elsewhere....  

[oOGarrettOo]

Esiris

I'm pretty far off spiritually from Strega and this could just be my impression- based on growing up with the kind of religion that comes about from Catholicism trampling pagan religions because slave owners and stuff were Catholic- but wouldn't the kind of "Catholicism" that tended to get people excommunicated be a good place to start?

Sang- he might not be a troll, he could just be mistaken or going through that awkward phase. sweatdrop

I'm not sure I follow D: But you could PM me and we could talk about it.  

[Esiris]

circlelord13

my proof is history itself.

What history shows was that there were people, mostly Christians who weren't liked in their community, Muslims and Jews, and maybe the occasional "will not convert" pagans who were killed mostly by governments- local and national, for their own gain.

It doesn't show that one of your ancestors was one of them, or that they found her tools. Who was she? What was her name, the year she was executed and the list of charges?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

circlelord13

Sanguina Cruenta

circlelord13

and yes there WERE witches killed in the witch trials, my ancestor was tried and burned at the stake for being a witch! they found her altar, and her tools! so its pretty damn ignorant to insult my heritage by disgracing the
burning times!

Cool story, bro.

Take your trolling elsewhere. Nice try, though.

i am not trying to troll... i was merely stating that its rude to belittle the burning times when my family is involved....

Can you link us to the church records of your ancestor's execution?

I doubt very much she would have had an altar and tools, and not just because the tools were probably nicked by Grimassi from Wicca-esque modern witchcraft and inserted into the family trad he claims to come from.

Also, the phrase "burning times" is a red flag for poor information. It's wise not to use it.

Where in Italy is your family from?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Esiris

I'm pretty far off spiritually from Strega and this could just be my impression- based on growing up with the kind of religion that comes about from Catholicism trampling pagan religions because slave owners and stuff were Catholic- but wouldn't the kind of "Catholicism" that tended to get people excommunicated be a good place to start?

My understanding is that Stregheria is non-theistic in itself, though it was blended with beliefs of the time - in the same way to much of traditional witchcraft - but wouldn't be necessary for the modern strega.

Of course, knowledge of popular religion-brand Catholicism would probably help some.  

[Ravynne Sidhe]

oOGarrettOo

It's pretty rude to say that witches who worship Satan aren't witches. They're no less a witch than the next person. And to say that they practice "black magic" is a pretty huge assumption.

Raven Grimassi is a horrible source on Stregheria. His research is next to nothing and really some of what he talks about has nothing to do with witchcraft but his own religious ideas. I couldn't even finish reading the book.

Stregheria, so I'm told by my relatives, was familial. The child to which it would be passed down to had to be the same gender as the teacher and or born with the cowl (I'm not sure if this is every family, or just my own). There were no written records, especially when Catholicism was strong in the area, so it was a very oral tradition, and if there were written anything they were to be kept to the family. Stregheria isn't a religion, it's a craft.

It's more accurate to say that Satanic witches practice the left hand path versus black magic.  

[Ravynne Sidhe]

Sanguina Cruenta

Esiris

I'm pretty far off spiritually from Strega and this could just be my impression- based on growing up with the kind of religion that comes about from Catholicism trampling pagan religions because slave owners and stuff were Catholic- but wouldn't the kind of "Catholicism" that tended to get people excommunicated be a good place to start?

My understanding is that Stregheria is non-theistic in itself, though it was blended with beliefs of the time - in the same way to much of traditional witchcraft - but wouldn't be necessary for the modern strega.

Of course, knowledge of popular religion-brand Catholicism would probably help some.

So is it safe to say that Aradia, Gospel of Witches isn't a text to read on Strega?  

[Ravynne Sidhe]

circlelord13

Ravynne Sidhe

circlelord13

Ravynne Sidhe

circlelord13

a witch, by modern terms, in what a witch is and isnt is in the definition of the wicca: Witches do not believe in a personification of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil" as defined by Christian Tradition. Witches do worship the God as the "Horned One," the Consort of the Goddess, and a living symbol of fertility, joy and love. During the times of the Inquisition, the Christian Church declared that the ancient Horned God of the Pagans was actually the Devil. They extracted signed confessions, acknowledging the devil as the leader of the witches, by subjecting thousands of innocent people, mostly women, to horrific torture, imprisonment and death.

There is a religious movement called Satanism, which began during the Middle Ages as a political-religious protest to the control exerted over the masses by the Church. Satanism continues to this day under a variety of names. Satanism has nothing to do with witchcraft.....

I'm sorry but Satanism does have to deal with witchcraft. There is a such thing as Satanic witches that do practice witchcraft.

Also no witches were killed in the Witch Trials. They were all Christians from poor, middle and even upper class people who were BOTH men and women. :s Stop reading Silver Ravenwolf for ******** sakes.

and yes there WERE witches killed in the witch trials, my ancestor was tried and burned at the stake for being a witch! they found her altar, and her tools! so its pretty damn ignorant to insult my heritage by disgracing the
burning times!

Proof for that assertation?

Seriously, my heritage has been marred by the Holocaust, and I can actually back up any claims that my great-grandmother was thrown in the concentration camps simply because it ACTUALLY ******** HAPPENED!

my proof is history itself.... and you need not cuss me out.... i am reasonable and am not yelling.... please go take your trolling elsewhere....

If I was cussing you out I would call you a stupid ******** arshloch that needs to pull their goddamned head out of their ******** a**.

I'm not the one whose trolling. Again, prove it.  

[oOGarrettOo]

Ravynne Sidhe

It's more accurate to say that Satanic witches practice the left hand path versus black magic.

I wouldn't even say that. Magic really can't be grouped like that. It's a personal thing.