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Jungle Boots

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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:20 pm

Garek Maxwell

Jungle Boots

ill read that article for sure... me being an artist its probably very applicable to my life.

post modernism is a term used for the movement of thinkers that critically question what we perceive as reality. so these theories that we are talking about are very much postmodernist.

i was thinking of Guy DeBord and his film Society and the Spectacle. i never seen it all the way though, but i have watched it about half way through and read the first few chapters of the script. to be honest the first couple chapters are the important ones anyway, the rest are just explaining the specifics of what he basically said in the first few.

I talk to alot of marxists on the situation of media and "commodity fetishism" and they have alot to say on the opposite. like you said "keep the workers working", their objective is to not only provide a worker with rights but a working worker with rights. so to them if media and commodity motivates them to work, then its probably better than the old propoganda approach.

Guy Debord also explains alot of things with reference to "the cave" to his readers. its a critical part of arguing any point that states; "HEY YOU LIVE IN ILLUSION... THE REAL WORLD IS OVER HERE"

I'm not sure how useful it is considering how old it is and how he doesn't really explain the "last stage" of where art goes... I think. I seem to recall it being simplified down to three stages with art being treated as a religious thing, then as something to be contemplated, and then something about it being political, but it's never explained. It's been a while. sweatdrop

Oh, good, I always seem to get confused with postmodernism. It feels like it''s never explained and yet you're supposed to know what it means somehow. My design class had broken down in the best possible way, in list format with the differences between it and modernism.

I'll have to look into that guy, as I never heard of him before. Sounds interesting though.

Eh, I don't know about that. I don't like propaganda, but the whole consumerism approach just feels even more empty. There's that whole "money doesn't buy you happiness" problem that sure seems to apply to this. I really don't know for certain what could work better, but these other motivations seem to only cause more problems than they solve. Plus, I would think forming relationships between workers and making their work more fulfilling would do more to motivate them than the other methods... Though from what I have read, this approach took place primarily before the industrial revolution when most people were farmers.

yeah i'd agree.... postmodernism is treated as a term you are just supposed to understand. s**t i dont even know what modernism means half the time.

yeah i would say thats probably correct with the history of art. its gone from afferming the powers of the church and the faith fo the institution of the church. though im not sure what he/you mean by something to be contemplated... and i wouldnt say that art has gotten political as much as it has gotten critical of established traditional systems and understandings. i wouldnt say that that is entirely 'political' but then again it kind of is.

this is what happens to me btw.... once i get tired of talking about masterbation i move on to stimulations of a different nature.

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:03 pm

Jungle Boots

yeah i'd agree.... postmodernism is treated as a term you are just supposed to understand. s**t i dont even know what modernism means half the time.

yeah i would say thats probably correct with the history of art. its gone from afferming the powers of the church and the faith fo the institution of the church. though im not sure what he/you mean by something to be contemplated... and i wouldnt say that art has gotten political as much as it has gotten critical of established traditional systems and understandings. i wouldnt say that that is entirely 'political' but then again it kind of is.

this is what happens to me btw.... once i get tired of talking about masterbation i move on to stimulations of a different nature.

There's a lot more ..er.. Well, modernism has more of a hashed out definition. I'll just recreate the list one of my teachers made in class that helps a LOT.

Modernism
Linear - (Only one path to complete a goal.)
Authority - (Specifically the stereoptical white male authority)
Clarity - (Everything only has one answer)
Evolution - (Goes with the linear part where things progress along one single path.)
Faith in Progress - Speaking of progress, there is a heavy belief that technology will solve all the world's problems.)
Binaries - (Good vs. Evil)

Post Modernism
Non-linear - (More than one way to a goal)
Diversity
Interference - (I don't recall exactly what this was about... I think it was questioning authority though.)
Devolution - (I think this was "breaking down old notions of how things are". Goes in line with questioning authority, but on a more philosophical level.)
Progress is Bunk - (Technology hasn't solved any more problems than it's created. As in, all this technology makes life easier and more comfortable, but it hasn't gotten rid of poverty, homelessness, starvation, racism, sexism, heterosexism, etc...)

Well, in class is was described more as an integrated part of religion, no matter if it was Christian or Pagan. It was revered and treated as if it were a sacred artifact. So people who could create art were often shamans or other people who were strongly involved in their faith.

The contemplation part as a bad description on my part. I meant more that it was to be viewed and enjoyed for it's worth all it's own. Er, that it's worth is determined by it's existence? ...I'm confusing myself. I have to admit, the class discussion was very boring on this. It was somewhat confusing. I think I recall it being mentioned that art has its worth based upon it's history. This is why the real Mona Lisa is more valued than a modern reproduction. It's also why it has more worth than any modern artwork.

The political part... I have no idea. I don't think the teacher knew what he was getting at entirely, but I think he said that art becomes more of a distraction or something in the background. It goes from something you spend a really good amount of time viewing and enjoying to something that's "just there". It's enjoyed, but... I think he was getting at the question of "is it really the same anymore?" I tend to believe that. I go through thousands of images a day, and I barely give each one a second thought much of the time.

...So Communism gets ya' going huh? razz

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Speaking of which, replies to other people!

Shakeidas

It's amazing how fast this went from porn to Marxism.

But we must fight for change!
Under communism, sex is for everyone!
Under capitalism, sex is only for those with money!
Fight for the revolution!
Porn for the masses!
Let not the bodies be sold to the highest bidder, rather they be given freely unto all who partake in their fleshy goodness!
xd

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^^;
What does 'paw-worthy' mean?

Furry slang for "porn that's good enough to 'get off' to."

Garek Maxwell

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CodyDudeTm

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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:23 am

> 3>
Since when did porn get so technical?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Since your mom knows how to use the PC.

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Jungle Boots

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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:45 pm

@garek

thank you so much for the modernism vs. postmod stuff... very helpful.

I definately see what you are saying with the contemplation of beauty thing. art definately made a change to a point of being an object to be admired for its own beauty rather than an object admired by its reaffirmation of a theology or religious image. all the way from the Florentine renaissance to Pollock

as to the political again, obviously its really hard to examine since its the state of art we view now. and it would be really difficult to understand it in the full spectrum until the retro-spective. I've always thought that way to explain why it comes to such confusion of what contemporary art is.

however i would not ever look at contemporary art as a less admired thing. perhaps less admired for its sense of self as beauty, or its sense of service to system (religion, culture, lifestyle) but it is to be admired for its direction of contemplation. contemporary art seems to really be pushed by the idea of taking the veiwer's mind and question the world that they take for granted. a lot of people just pass by most modern art and think its just bull shitted conceptualization. some of it is bull s**t. but i think the best peices of art are the ones you really really really have to examine to figure out. and a lot of the value of that art work then becomes the journey your mind must take before it understands what the art is really about.

yes.... communism does get me hot.... very very very very hot.

there is a reason why my fursona is from Kazhakastan.

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:22 pm

i only have a few adult commissions on my computer..but I don't have a "stash" of porn

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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:33 am

[-Erik-]

Since your mom knows how to use the PC.

gonk

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:14 pm

Jungle Boots

however i would not ever look at contemporary art as a less admired thing. perhaps less admired for its sense of self as beauty, or its sense of service to system (religion, culture, lifestyle) but it is to be admired for its direction of contemplation. contemporary art seems to really be pushed by the idea of taking the veiwer's mind and question the world that they take for granted. a lot of people just pass by most modern art and think its just bull shitted conceptualization. some of it is bull s**t. but i think the best peices of art are the ones you really really really have to examine to figure out. and a lot of the value of that art work then becomes the journey your mind must take before it understands what the art is really about.

yes.... communism does get me hot.... very very very very hot.

there is a reason why my fursona is from Kazhakastan.

Welll...Would you say the same about the McDonalds logo? Or a billboard advertisement by Ikea? They do have a lot of work put in to them by artists who are trying to catch your eye and make it presentable and desirable.

That's one problem with art today. Everything's art. Even those little smilies to the left when you make posts on Gaia. Someone had to design and create an image that conveyed emotion.

I think the biggest problem with art though is probably the difference between "high art" and "low art". Really, what is the difference? "Snobs" (or the upper class perhaps, but that doesn't always apply) like a Jackson Pollock but disdain the McDonalds logo. Everyday people don't see what the big deal is with splattered paint, yet can recognize the McDonalds logo anywhere and have certain emotions and desires stirred up from that image alone. Does good art have to be something you stare at for hours in an attempt to understand and take it all in? Does something kitsch become good art if someone stares at a garden gnome for hours? That's the main problem I see with art today. Virtually everything is art now, and the only thing separating so called "high art" from "low art" is a made up barrier that people create but never actually exists.

...And maybe wikipedia is a off, but they don't sound all that communist... Maybe I'm misreading it though. sweatdrop

Garek Maxwell

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Jungle Boots

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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:36 pm

eh...

see there is a definate difference between advertisement and Fine art "high art"

advertisment is designed to evoke specific emotions inorder to motivate a consumer into buying a specific product.

graphic arts is designed to evoke an emotionthat coincides with the esthetic of a location or concept. designing to make things pretty, and appealing.

propoganda is designed to evoke a general emotion inorder to motivate a veiwer into undertaking a certain cause.

fine art... or high art is designed to evoke emotion to internalize a sense of self questioning. or a sense of criticizm.

art is so generalized when it is mentioned now adays because its objectives are now so diverse. its hard to place it all in one word; ART. and effectively talk about it in general.

not to mention art is so prone to opinion its even harder then to understand what ART means.

philosophers have spent every waking day of human civilization trying to define it and never gotten quite there.

what? what did wikipedia say about who?

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:39 am

eek I never knew how much fighting porn could bring xd
and to clear the air here is the full pic from my sig.
User Image

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Garek Maxwell

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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:21 pm

Jungle Boots

fine art... or high art is designed to evoke emotion to internalize a sense of self questioning. or a sense of criticizm.

art is so generalized when it is mentioned now adays because its objectives are now so diverse. its hard to place it all in one word; ART. and effectively talk about it in general.

what? what did wikipedia say about who?

I just need to ask this, what is the deep meaning or self questioning these classics invoke when they've become so overly popularize that they take on rockstar status? Everyone knows the Mona Lisa. People will even read books on the very subject. Some go in depth of Leonardo's life and make him out to be the star of the Renaissance and a "rockstar" of the art world today. Not only that, but when you go to the museum that houses the Mona Lisa, you too can own it... Well, a reproduction of it anyway. You can have it on a shirt, a keychain, a chair, and with enough money you can even have the Mona Lisa on your very car.

But it doesn't stop there! You can get many of your favorites for low low prices in many different forms!

http://www.amazon.com/Plush-Stuffed-Love-Titian-t-shirt/dp/B001MGNC8I/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469427&sr=8-14
I <3 Titian Kitty

http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Urbino-Titian-Decorative-Ceramic/dp/B001GFTBSA/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469439&sr=8-21
Venus of Urbino knob

http://www.amazon.com/Da-Vincis-Challenge-Card-Game/dp/B000BGOG3U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469464&sr=8-7
Leonardo Da Vinci cards

http://www.amazon.com/Khaki-Baseball-Leonardo-Vincis-Vitruvian/dp/B002I0S6AQ/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469477&sr=8-29
Vitruvian hat

http://www.amazon.com/Equestrian-Statue-Gattamelata-Donatello-Strap-Size-Womens/dp/B000VMKCFK/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469564&sr=8-27
Donatello's Equestrian watch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/content/images/2007/12/07/tattoo_470body_470x200.jpg
You can even have a classic work tattooed on your body.

Well, these are all products, so maybe they don't fit well into what you meant. How about things that aren't products?

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/22500/Mona-Lisa-Mrs-PacMan--22841.jpg
Mrs. Mona Paca isn't for sale.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/9500/Happy-Meal-9967.jpg
Neither are these fellows, sitting down for a nice meal.

Maybe if there's more message and it isn't something made in the modern period would help...

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/98350/1/Allegory-Called-Venus,-Cupid,-Folly,-And-Time.jpg
(NSFW)
Come on, Cupid, Venus's son, pinching her n****e and kissing her? THere IS deeper meaning, but as I learned in my art history class, you're supposed to smile to this because of what's going on. Does this have a mass audience appeal that doesn't fit in with high art? Or does the deeper meaning of "pleasure that bites" (Forgot her name, but the woman in the background to the right holds a honey comb and has a stinging tail if I recall correctly) make this work high art?

I haven't even shown advertisements that utilize these classic works. But I'm pretty sure I have more of an idea now of what Walter Benjamin was getting at in part of is essay.
http://www.jahsonic.com/MonaLisa.html
I stumbled across this, which says much of what I was trying to say. It's more difficult now than ever before to separate high art and low art.

...Oh, and the wikipedia thing was just on Kazakhstan. Seemed like they weren't very communist from the description, but I skimmed through it a lot.

Midnight_Husky

eek I never knew how much fighting porn could bring xd

We're not fighting. razz We're discussing.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:48 pm

Garek Maxwell

Jungle Boots

fine art... or high art is designed to evoke emotion to internalize a sense of self questioning. or a sense of criticizm.

art is so generalized when it is mentioned now adays because its objectives are now so diverse. its hard to place it all in one word; ART. and effectively talk about it in general.

what? what did wikipedia say about who?

I just need to ask this, what is the deep meaning or self questioning these classics invoke when they've become so overly popularize that they take on rockstar status? Everyone knows the Mona Lisa. People will even read books on the very subject. Some go in depth of Leonardo's life and make him out to be the star of the Renaissance and a "rockstar" of the art world today. Not only that, but when you go to the museum that houses the Mona Lisa, you too can own it... Well, a reproduction of it anyway. You can have it on a shirt, a keychain, a chair, and with enough money you can even have the Mona Lisa on your very car.

But it doesn't stop there! You can get many of your favorites for low low prices in many different forms!

http://www.amazon.com/Plush-Stuffed-Love-Titian-t-shirt/dp/B001MGNC8I/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469427&sr=8-14
I <3 Titian Kitty

http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Urbino-Titian-Decorative-Ceramic/dp/B001GFTBSA/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469439&sr=8-21
Venus of Urbino knob

http://www.amazon.com/Da-Vincis-Challenge-Card-Game/dp/B000BGOG3U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469464&sr=8-7
Leonardo Da Vinci cards

http://www.amazon.com/Khaki-Baseball-Leonardo-Vincis-Vitruvian/dp/B002I0S6AQ/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469477&sr=8-29
Vitruvian hat

http://www.amazon.com/Equestrian-Statue-Gattamelata-Donatello-Strap-Size-Womens/dp/B000VMKCFK/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469564&sr=8-27
Donatello's Equestrian watch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/content/images/2007/12/07/tattoo_470body_470x200.jpg
You can even have a classic work tattooed on your body.

Well, these are all products, so maybe they don't fit well into what you meant. How about things that aren't products?

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/22500/Mona-Lisa-Mrs-PacMan--22841.jpg
Mrs. Mona Paca isn't for sale.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/9500/Happy-Meal-9967.jpg
Neither are these fellows, sitting down for a nice meal.

Maybe if there's more message and it isn't something made in the modern period would help...

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/98350/1/Allegory-Called-Venus,-Cupid,-Folly,-And-Time.jpg
(NSFW)
Come on, Cupid, Venus's son, pinching her n****e and kissing her? THere IS deeper meaning, but as I learned in my art history class, you're supposed to smile to this because of what's going on. Does this have a mass audience appeal that doesn't fit in with high art? Or does the deeper meaning of "pleasure that bites" (Forgot her name, but the woman in the background to the right holds a honey comb and has a stinging tail if I recall correctly) make this work high art?

I haven't even shown advertisements that utilize these classic works. But I'm pretty sure I have more of an idea now of what Walter Benjamin was getting at in part of is essay.
http://www.jahsonic.com/MonaLisa.html
I stumbled across this, which says much of what I was trying to say. It's more difficult now than ever before to separate high art and low art.

...Oh, and the wikipedia thing was just on Kazakhstan. Seemed like they weren't very communist from the description, but I skimmed through it a lot.

Midnight_Husky

eek I never knew how much fighting porn could bring xd

We're not fighting. razz We're discussing.

in that case carry on xp

Huskykins

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Isaol

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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:58 pm

[ Message temporarily off-line ]

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:56 am

Garek Maxwell

Jungle Boots

fine art... or high art is designed to evoke emotion to internalize a sense of self questioning. or a sense of criticizm.

art is so generalized when it is mentioned now adays because its objectives are now so diverse. its hard to place it all in one word; ART. and effectively talk about it in general.

what? what did wikipedia say about who?

I just need to ask this, what is the deep meaning or self questioning these classics invoke when they've become so overly popularize that they take on rockstar status? Everyone knows the Mona Lisa. People will even read books on the very subject. Some go in depth of Leonardo's life and make him out to be the star of the Renaissance and a "rockstar" of the art world today. Not only that, but when you go to the museum that houses the Mona Lisa, you too can own it... Well, a reproduction of it anyway. You can have it on a shirt, a keychain, a chair, and with enough money you can even have the Mona Lisa on your very car.

But it doesn't stop there! You can get many of your favorites for low low prices in many different forms!

http://www.amazon.com/Plush-Stuffed-Love-Titian-t-shirt/dp/B001MGNC8I/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469427&sr=8-14
I <3 Titian Kitty

http://www.amazon.com/Venus-Urbino-Titian-Decorative-Ceramic/dp/B001GFTBSA/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469439&sr=8-21
Venus of Urbino knob

http://www.amazon.com/Da-Vincis-Challenge-Card-Game/dp/B000BGOG3U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469464&sr=8-7
Leonardo Da Vinci cards

http://www.amazon.com/Khaki-Baseball-Leonardo-Vincis-Vitruvian/dp/B002I0S6AQ/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469477&sr=8-29
Vitruvian hat

http://www.amazon.com/Equestrian-Statue-Gattamelata-Donatello-Strap-Size-Womens/dp/B000VMKCFK/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1248469564&sr=8-27
Donatello's Equestrian watch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/content/images/2007/12/07/tattoo_470body_470x200.jpg
You can even have a classic work tattooed on your body.

Well, these are all products, so maybe they don't fit well into what you meant. How about things that aren't products?

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/22500/Mona-Lisa-Mrs-PacMan--22841.jpg
Mrs. Mona Paca isn't for sale.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/9500/Happy-Meal-9967.jpg
Neither are these fellows, sitting down for a nice meal.

Maybe if there's more message and it isn't something made in the modern period would help...

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/98350/1/Allegory-Called-Venus,-Cupid,-Folly,-And-Time.jpg
(NSFW)
Come on, Cupid, Venus's son, pinching her n****e and kissing her? THere IS deeper meaning, but as I learned in my art history class, you're supposed to smile to this because of what's going on. Does this have a mass audience appeal that doesn't fit in with high art? Or does the deeper meaning of "pleasure that bites" (Forgot her name, but the woman in the background to the right holds a honey comb and has a stinging tail if I recall correctly) make this work high art?

I haven't even shown advertisements that utilize these classic works. But I'm pretty sure I have more of an idea now of what Walter Benjamin was getting at in part of is essay.
http://www.jahsonic.com/MonaLisa.html
I stumbled across this, which says much of what I was trying to say. It's more difficult now than ever before to separate high art and low art.

...Oh, and the wikipedia thing was just on Kazakhstan. Seemed like they weren't very communist from the description, but I skimmed through it a lot.

Midnight_Husky

eek I never knew how much fighting porn could bring xd

We're not fighting. razz We're discussing.

Well yes, the classics have been commoditized... but we all have to understand that what the artist was actually saying, in contemporary art and in classic art all is only truely understood by a select few. the well educated and the perceptive of the art culture's visual language, IE the symbols of certain art styles. I think the commoditization is the method that most people have to approach the art, even works that are internationally famous.

i dont so much like the fact you can have a print of the monalisa for five dollars, but at the same time i dont mind that even people with less than expendable incomes can appreciate and own at least the image of the art work.

i would think that most contemporary art is even more so difficult to approach as a layman. im going to school to understand what these artists are supposed to be saying in their work and i still rarely understand it without it being explained in some manner.

Kazakhstan isn't communist, but it was a powerhouse of the USSR. and their official language is still russian despite being one of the first ex-soviet states to have gained independence at the fall of the USSR. So they still hold on to a sense of that culture brought on by the communist russian occupation.