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Do you think Naruto will die at the end of the series?
  yes
  no
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mofoslotmachine

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:37 am


Shikalee
Mr._Stabby
CrabappleRed
Juuyonbi_No_Peko_=3

not only Jounins, theres a long list of people they can take down, but if Team Kakashi can taker down those two, then they have at least a chance against them...of course, going after Itachi would be suicide XDDD


No. There's actually a limit as to how many people can die. Not mention who can die.

As much as I'd love to see a proper bloodfest, it's just not possible: Kishimoto is restrained by marketing. What do you think will happen if, say, Kakashi dies? There's a huge chunk of people who love him. Of he goes, Kishimoto risks loosing those readers. It's always possible, of course, that he'd do it anyways. Or that Kakashi bites it near the end of the series in the Climactic Battle. But for him to die now, in a two-bit little fight? Very doubtful.

I would like to see one of the Ino-Shika-Cho team die, if only because it would hammer home that, yes, things are a hell of a lot more dangerous now, and that they can't think themselves imune, no matter what the plan. But will it happen? Eh. . . hard to say.

It would be ironic if someone from the Ino-Shika-Cho team died. I doubt it would happen, since they just lost Asuma, but if it did, that would be the end of the team for a bit anyway.
Not likely. Though a lot of people think that Shikamaru will follow Asuma's footsteps so closely that he too will die. I don't believe this because Shikamaru has unfinished business. Asuma did too, but not in the same way.


I agree with you; Shikamaru isn't going to go the same way as Asuma, at least not any time soon.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:16 pm


It's too bad. The original Naruto series (pre-timeskip, I mean) was very much a character growth series. One that dealth with all the characters gowing from childhood into the first stages of adulthood. Sasuke running away, Naruto failing that first crucial time, Neji mending his fences with the Main house, Hinata learning to stand up for herself, etc, etc. But TimeJump Naruto is a different kind of series. It's much more an adventure thing, a huge long plot arc about (though the main cast doesn't know it yet) saving the world, and redeaming people who have fallen to evil. That means that the new series can do things the older one can't, like killing people off. I'd love to see that blossom fully. People are inclined to shrug storylines off because they are so comfortable in the idea that the main cast is safe. Of couse Shikamaru can't die. Of course Sakura won't, Kakashi won't, Kiba won't. And I think that's really too bad, because a well done death can add a lot to the story. Kishimoto want me to take these Uber L337 ninja so seriously. But none of them have killed anyone who really, trully mattered. For me to actually worry and fret over the fight, they have to be given more power. They have to be allowed to kill, and kill someone important. Asuma was a nice start, let's see it go further. Let's see Chouji or Ino die, and give Shikamaru a solid, ugly dose of war. And at the same time, give the readers the heads up that yes, these guys are something to worry about.

And while I'm wishing, let's see Kakashi take permanent damage from abusing the Sharingan. And, uh, Neji. I want Neji to die in Naruto's arms. And a pony.

CrabappleRed


Syndactyly

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:11 am


mofoslotmachine
Shikalee
Not likely. Though a lot of people think that Shikamaru will follow Asuma's footsteps so closely that he too will die. I don't believe this because Shikamaru has unfinished business. Asuma did too, but not in the same way.


I agree with you; Shikamaru isn't going to go the same way as Asuma, at least not any time soon.
This last chapter had me worried, though. He's practically ASKING to get killed. >O<;;

@ CrabappleRed: You haven't seen character growth? Ouch. What about Gaara? Naruto? Shikamaru? Those 3 off the top of my head went through some serious change.

We all think Shikamaru can't die but... it's becoming more and more likely. It's about time we have a surprising death. Even Asuma's was foreseen by many fans.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:44 am


Shikalee
This last chapter had me worried, though. He's practically ASKING to get killed. >O<;;

@ CrabappleRed: You haven't seen character growth? Ouch. What about Gaara? Naruto? Shikamaru? Those 3 off the top of my head went through some serious change.

We all think Shikamaru can't die but... it's becoming more and more likely. It's about time we have a surprising death. Even Asuma's was foreseen by many fans.


It's not that I havn't seen character growth, it's that it doesn't seen to be as big a deal as in the first half of Naruto. In the first half, the main focus was on people discovering themselves, and in the backgrond, you had Plot going on, with Orochimaru and then the first hints of Akatsuki. People's growth would push the plot forward. For example, because of Sasuke's decent into jelousy and rage, he runs off with Orochimaru.

In the second arc, though, it's mostly all about Akatsuki, about stoping them, and about running after Sasuke. Though we have had moments of character growth, they aren't the center of what's going on. In this half, it's the plot that pushes people's growth. A good example of this would be that Gaara gets killed, and his death pushes people into action and we get a chance to see how he's managed to form bonds with people around him, and that he now has people who care about him. It's a different story telling style.

CrabappleRed


mofoslotmachine

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:08 pm


CrabappleRed
It's too bad. The original Naruto series (pre-timeskip, I mean) was very much a character growth series. One that dealth with all the characters gowing from childhood into the first stages of adulthood. Sasuke running away, Naruto failing that first crucial time, Neji mending his fences with the Main house, Hinata learning to stand up for herself, etc, etc. But TimeJump Naruto is a different kind of series. It's much more an adventure thing, a huge long plot arc about (though the main cast doesn't know it yet) saving the world, and redeaming people who have fallen to evil. That means that the new series can do things the older one can't, like killing people off. I'd love to see that blossom fully. People are inclined to shrug storylines off because they are so comfortable in the idea that the main cast is safe. Of couse Shikamaru can't die. Of course Sakura won't, Kakashi won't, Kiba won't. And I think that's really too bad, because a well done death can add a lot to the story. Kishimoto want me to take these Uber L337 ninja so seriously. But none of them have killed anyone who really, trully mattered. For me to actually worry and fret over the fight, they have to be given more power. They have to be allowed to kill, and kill someone important. Asuma was a nice start, let's see it go further. Let's see Chouji or Ino die, and give Shikamaru a solid, ugly dose of war. And at the same time, give the readers the heads up that yes, these guys are something to worry about.

And while I'm wishing, let's see Kakashi take permanent damage from abusing the Sharingan. And, uh, Neji. I want Neji to die in Naruto's arms. And a pony.


CrabappleRed
It's too bad. The original Naruto series (pre-timeskip, I mean) was very much a character growth series. One that dealth with all the characters gowing from childhood into the first stages of adulthood. Sasuke running away, Naruto failing that first crucial time, Neji mending his fences with the Main house, Hinata learning to stand up for herself, etc, etc. But TimeJump Naruto is a different kind of series. It's much more an adventure thing, a huge long plot arc about (though the main cast doesn't know it yet) saving the world, and redeaming people who have fallen to evil. That means that the new series can do things the older one can't, like killing people off. I'd love to see that blossom fully. People are inclined to shrug storylines off because they are so comfortable in the idea that the main cast is safe. Of couse Shikamaru can't die. Of course Sakura won't, Kakashi won't, Kiba won't. And I think that's really too bad, because a well done death can add a lot to the story. Kishimoto want me to take these Uber L337 ninja so seriously. But none of them have killed anyone who really, trully mattered. For me to actually worry and fret over the fight, they have to be given more power. They have to be allowed to kill, and kill someone important. Asuma was a nice start, let's see it go further. Let's see Chouji or Ino die, and give Shikamaru a solid, ugly dose of war. And at the same time, give the readers the heads up that yes, these guys are something to worry about.

And while I'm wishing, let's see Kakashi take permanent damage from abusing the Sharingan. And, uh, Neji. I want Neji to die in Naruto's arms. And a pony.


The problem with that is, important deaths still have to have some kind of literary significance. Asuma was an important role model for Shikamaru, and his death has acted as a catalyst for him and the others in team ten. People like Sakura or Neji won't die because it wouldn't made a lot of sense -- this is the generation that's supposed to change things; they're different from the older ninja, and having them all killed off randomly wouldn't portray that properly. Lee has something to prove, Naruto has something to prove, as do Sakura, Chouji, Hinata, etc. Killing them off would take away from that, not add to it. That's why the main cast isn't going to die.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:19 pm


mofoslotmachine

The problem with that is, important deaths still have to have some kind of literary significance. Asuma was an important role model for Shikamaru, and his death has acted as a catalyst for him and the others in team ten. People like Sakura or Neji won't die because it wouldn't made a lot of sense -- this is the generation that's supposed to change things; they're different from the older ninja, and having them all killed off randomly wouldn't portray that properly. Lee has something to prove, Naruto has something to prove, as do Sakura, Chouji, Hinata, etc. Killing them off would take away from that, not add to it. That's why the main cast isn't going to die.


It's true that the deaths have to have literay significance, but they don't necessarily have to be a kind of significance that pushed that particular character's story. The significance can simply be one of "gee, these guys are much, much stronger than we thought. Oops. We just payed the price!" Their significance would be to show that not everybody is imune, that people have to be careful, that even though these characters had hopes and dreams, they are still fragile humans who are at risk.

Of course, nothing says those deaths can't be used to help the character prove something too. Dying for someone or for a goal is a powerful thing. Sakura, for example, still has yet to find something only she can do to help Naruto. She says as much to Yamato. Giving her life for Naruto might just be the thing she, and she alone, can do.

And I think some of those charactres don't really have a point to prove any more. Chouji, Lee, Tenten, Neji, Kiba, Shino. These characters have either already proved themselves or haven't got goals. That makes them disposable.

CrabappleRed


Captain Verd

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:23 pm


CrabappleRed
mofoslotmachine

The problem with that is, important deaths still have to have some kind of literary significance. Asuma was an important role model for Shikamaru, and his death has acted as a catalyst for him and the others in team ten. People like Sakura or Neji won't die because it wouldn't made a lot of sense -- this is the generation that's supposed to change things; they're different from the older ninja, and having them all killed off randomly wouldn't portray that properly. Lee has something to prove, Naruto has something to prove, as do Sakura, Chouji, Hinata, etc. Killing them off would take away from that, not add to it. That's why the main cast isn't going to die.


It's true that the deaths have to have literay significance, but they don't necessarily have to be a kind of significance that pushed that particular character's story. The significance can simply be one of "gee, these guys are much, much stronger than we thought. Oops. We just payed the price!" Their significance would be to show that not everybody is imune, that people have to be careful, that even though these characters had hopes and dreams, they are still fragile humans who are at risk.

Of course, nothing says those deaths can't be used to help the character prove something too. Dying for someone or for a goal is a powerful thing. Sakura, for example, still has yet to find something only she can do to help Naruto. She says as much to Yamato. Giving her life for Naruto might just be the thing she, and she alone, can do.

And I think some of those charactres don't really have a point to prove any more. Chouji, Lee, Tenten, Neji, Kiba, Shino. These characters have either already proved themselves or haven't got goals. That makes them disposable.
That would go against the entire theme of the story which boils down to "We can do it!" If they can't do it, it detracts from the feeling of hope that's been built up over the entire series.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:26 pm


CrabappleRed
mofoslotmachine

The problem with that is, important deaths still have to have some kind of literary significance. Asuma was an important role model for Shikamaru, and his death has acted as a catalyst for him and the others in team ten. People like Sakura or Neji won't die because it wouldn't made a lot of sense -- this is the generation that's supposed to change things; they're different from the older ninja, and having them all killed off randomly wouldn't portray that properly. Lee has something to prove, Naruto has something to prove, as do Sakura, Chouji, Hinata, etc. Killing them off would take away from that, not add to it. That's why the main cast isn't going to die.


It's true that the deaths have to have literay significance, but they don't necessarily have to be a kind of significance that pushed that particular character's story. The significance can simply be one of "gee, these guys are much, much stronger than we thought. Oops. We just payed the price!" Their significance would be to show that not everybody is imune, that people have to be careful, that even though these characters had hopes and dreams, they are still fragile humans who are at risk.

Of course, nothing says those deaths can't be used to help the character prove something too. Dying for someone or for a goal is a powerful thing. Sakura, for example, still has yet to find something only she can do to help Naruto. She says as much to Yamato. Giving her life for Naruto might just be the thing she, and she alone, can do.

And I think some of those charactres don't really have a point to prove any more. Chouji, Lee, Tenten, Neji, Kiba, Shino. These characters have either already proved themselves or haven't got goals. That makes them disposable.


That might be more true in a more realistic series than Naruto, but like Captain Verd said, so far the whole point of the series is hope and people overcoming the odds. In real life people may die suddenly and without resolving everything (and in some other series, too), but in a series like Naruto, a death like that would be unsatisfying. If Lee died abruptly, it would be flat and have no real significance because his character arc isn't finished. If someone like Tsunade died, giving her life for the village, it would have more impact and be more likely because it ties into the character and her position and backstory.

mofoslotmachine


vampiretrees

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:06 pm


Sakrua will explode or implode in the last episode and Nauriot will marry Hinata. The end. mrgreen
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:09 pm


mofoslotmachine

That might be more true in a more realistic series than Naruto, but like Captain Verd said, so far the whole point of the series is hope and people overcoming the odds. In real life people may die suddenly and without resolving everything (and in some other series, too), but in a series like Naruto, a death like that would be unsatisfying. If Lee died abruptly, it would be flat and have no real significance because his character arc isn't finished. If someone like Tsunade died, giving her life for the village, it would have more impact and be more likely because it ties into the character and her position and backstory.


I know, I know. At it's heart, Naruto is a happy series. But . . I guess I'm just holding out for how far it could go. Haku, and Haku's death, opened the door to the posibility of dying for those you care about most. I'd like to see more of that. To see more characters forced to the edge, forced to make the biggest sacrafices they can. *sigh*

But then, I'm kinda sadistic that way. whee

CrabappleRed


mofoslotmachine

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:24 pm


vampiretrees
Sakrua will explode or implode in the last episode and Nauriot will marry Hinata. The end. mrgreen


neutral
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:02 am


CrabappleRed
Shikalee
This last chapter had me worried, though. He's practically ASKING to get killed. >O<;;

@ CrabappleRed: You haven't seen character growth? Ouch. What about Gaara? Naruto? Shikamaru? Those 3 off the top of my head went through some serious change.

We all think Shikamaru can't die but... it's becoming more and more likely. It's about time we have a surprising death. Even Asuma's was foreseen by many fans.


It's not that I havn't seen character growth, it's that it doesn't seen to be as big a deal as in the first half of Naruto. In the first half, the main focus was on people discovering themselves, and in the backgrond, you had Plot going on, with Orochimaru and then the first hints of Akatsuki. People's growth would push the plot forward. For example, because of Sasuke's decent into jelousy and rage, he runs off with Orochimaru.

In the second arc, though, it's mostly all about Akatsuki, about stoping them, and about running after Sasuke. Though we have had moments of character growth, they aren't the center of what's going on. In this half, it's the plot that pushes people's growth. A good example of this would be that Gaara gets killed, and his death pushes people into action and we get a chance to see how he's managed to form bonds with people around him, and that he now has people who care about him. It's a different story telling style.
I think that can easily be explained by observations made in real life. It is said the most mental and physical growth occurs during a child's adolescent years. Our Shinobi are becoming mid teens, which is considered a stage for discovery, learning, and self-awareness. Their growth will be gradual, but very enriching. They will go through sacrifice and pain, but experience large heaps of experience in return, because they are more independent and have to handle more adult situations.
People discover themselves their whole lives. Gaara especially didn't "discover" who he was until this part 2, when he was saved by Naruto. But even after that, even though he was nice, a lot of thoughts are still running through his head.
Sakura has been going through some small, but serious changes. It was in one chapter she was "randomly crying." As insignificant and forgotten this part was, it showed us that Sakura is actually thinking about the situation between Sasuke and Naruto. Sakura, who was once weak and useless, has trained herself to become a very independent young woman.
The growth of Team 10 is our current topic. Ino and Chouji were sad, yeah. But it was obvious that this really tore Shikamaru apart inside. He's been making some really quick decisions, which he will hopefully learn is not all that beneficial to him. A lot of fans expect him to go through some serious growth soon (if he doesn't die, that is). His father always gives him that weird "I'm proud of you" grin, knowing that his son is getting closer and closer. I also notice that Chouji's eating habits have gotten better... Ino still shows a lot of room for improvement, I think. But she's settled down a bit.
Sasuke has also gone through serious change. Over the last few years, he has become far stronger, and his goal far more serious. It isn't necessarily, good, but it is a very evident growth.
I think you're ignoring the past 100 chapters. See, maybe for the past 25 it's been way on to Akatsuki. Before that it was on Orochimaru's group, Sai, and all that. Though there was Sasori and all that, these fights were not the same focus we have on Akatsuki now.

I don't think a good story HAS to CONSTANTLY be about character growth. Our characters need to stop growing, settle down, and have a good backbone to stop their enemies.

Syndactyly


Syndactyly

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:03 am


I don't think the story needs to have a point. I think you guys are reading into this a little too deeply. It's a comic book for kid's for christ's sake.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:29 pm


Shikalee
I don't think the story needs to have a point. I think you guys are reading into this a little too deeply. It's a comic book for kid's for christ's sake.


Probably Kishimoto isn't writing it with a "point" in mind; he's just writing and that's the way it comes out; it's only the point (at least in my opinion) because practically everyone in the comic overcomes adversity like...all the time. Kishimoto makes a big deal out of it. Then, when he rushes it, as it seems like he's doing now, the adversities get compacted and it's fight fight fight BLAH BLAH BLAH and it becomes a mushy, nasty cold oatmeal casserole of no character development unless it will help him FIGHT TEH BAD GUYZ.

Exception being Shikamaru's boring, predictable 'I am now super-serious' reaction to Asuma's death. But I guess I wouldn't really call that character growth.

edited because I forgot to say things. xd

attila the fun


CrabappleRed

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:34 pm


attilathefun

Probably Kishimoto isn't writing it with a "point" in mind; he's just writing and that's the way it comes out; it's only the point (at least in my opinion) because practically everyone in the comic overcomes adversity like...all the time. Kishimoto makes a big deal out of it.


True. The over all work might not have a message, but the stories of the characters involved can. For instance, Kishimoto has said that he deliberatly set up Neji as a story about overcoming destiny blahdy blahdy blah. So while Naruto might not be aming to be some great literary work, I think Kishimoto diliberatly sets things up to show certain themes and messages. Hell, he's not even subtle about it! "Hard work can over come genius", "don't let others dictate who you are", "stick by your friends", "fangirls love teh hott emo bishis" . . .
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Recent Translated Manga Discussion - For those who have read the newest translations!

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