The Imperial War Room

[Nelowulf]

But, against the CIS, just because you've got power doesn't mean you can necessarily beat the numbers. The droid carriers held well over 200 fighters, which if not watched very carefully, could easily make life a nightmare for any clone.

The rebels sadly were never designed, equipted, or needing to fight a full one-to-one battle, so they never really required the need to stack the odds against the SSDs.  

[Anna Sachae]

True, but the clones never used ISDs. For clones, they relied on having large numbers of average or just-above-average soldiers and pilots to counter the CIS's immense numbers of below-average droids. The Empire never really fought the CIS, since the leaders of the Federation were destroyed as the first act of the Empire. Comparing the ISD's to the Lucrehulk battleships is a bit awkward.

Still, I hold by the fact that the ISD would come out on top in a fight, though possibly only with a bit of support from smaller ships. Remember that Empire philosophy was quantity over quality as well, so they had plenty of TIE's on station. A human pilot will almost always beat a droid pilot, as was sadly proven by way of the TIE/d droid starfighters. Even if each TIE pilot was only worth two droid starfighters, the other 50 wouldn't do enough to cripple an ISD beyond its abilities to thoroughly trounce that inflated ring of a "battleship".

Sorry. I've got a thing against the Trade Federation. They had the biggest, baddest ship in the galaxy, and they still managed to lose every important battle of the war. The lesson? Droid pilots suck.  

[Rodyn]

Anna Sachae

True, but the clones never used ISDs. For clones, they relied on having large numbers of average or just-above-average soldiers and pilots to counter the CIS's immense numbers of below-average droids. The Empire never really fought the CIS, since the leaders of the Federation were destroyed as the first act of the Empire. Comparing the ISD's to the Lucrehulk battleships is a bit awkward.

Still, I hold by the fact that the ISD would come out on top in a fight, though possibly only with a bit of support from smaller ships. Remember that Empire philosophy was quantity over quality as well, so they had plenty of TIE's on station. A human pilot will almost always beat a droid pilot, as was sadly proven by way of the TIE/d droid starfighters. Even if each TIE pilot was only worth two droid starfighters, the other 50 wouldn't do enough to cripple an ISD beyond its abilities to thoroughly trounce that inflated ring of a "battleship".

Sorry. I've got a thing against the Trade Federation. They had the biggest, baddest ship in the galaxy, and they still managed to lose every important battle of the war. The lesson? Droid pilots suck.

Well, I think depending on droids for 90% of battles in general is the lesson.  

[Nelowulf]

That's why I split the two into differnt' paragraphs, identifying the cis then the rebels.


But Partly, I think the droid issue happens to be because droid pilots are limited. The leaders would never get a heuristic droid pilot brain that coudl backfire on them...  

[Sol Walker]

Anna Sachae

True, but the clones never used ISDs. For clones, they relied on having large numbers of average or just-above-average soldiers and pilots to counter the CIS's immense numbers of below-average droids. The Empire never really fought the CIS, since the leaders of the Federation were destroyed as the first act of the Empire. Comparing the ISD's to the Lucrehulk battleships is a bit awkward.

Still, I hold by the fact that the ISD would come out on top in a fight, though possibly only with a bit of support from smaller ships. Remember that Empire philosophy was quantity over quality as well, so they had plenty of TIE's on station. A human pilot will almost always beat a droid pilot, as was sadly proven by way of the TIE/d droid starfighters. Even if each TIE pilot was only worth two droid starfighters, the other 50 wouldn't do enough to cripple an ISD beyond its abilities to thoroughly trounce that inflated ring of a "battleship".

Sorry. I've got a thing against the Trade Federation. They had the biggest, baddest ship in the galaxy, and they still managed to lose every important battle of the war. The lesson? Droid pilots suck.

Wasn't just droid pilots. 00M-9 actually was just on the verge of beating the gungan army, which shows he was actually a competant general, until Anakin Skywalker activated the failsafe that the Paranoid Neimodians installed in their army, shuting them down at the moment of success.
If anyone is to blame for the failure of the Trade Federation's army, its the Neimodians themselves.
The Real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge don't let bean counters run your army.  

[Sol Walker]

ElladanKenet

According to Wookieepedia, an Imperial Squadron at most had one Imperial Star Destroyer, perhaps a few smaller variants like Victories and Venators, and 14-60 support craft, depending on configuration.

As for the Vicroty-Venator-Acclamantor squadron you proposed, that's the kind of thing to be used only on minimal threats (no more than 2 CIS Destroyers). As Stellar pointed out, fire brigade duties only.

For space superiority, I'd go with 3 Vics and 3 Venators.

For troop transfer, 1 Vic, 2 Venators, and 3 Acclamantors.

Also, to note, Venators were serious lacking in ship-to-ship weaponry, especially against CIS ships of the same designation. It was Anakin Skywalker who came up with adding SPHA artilleries into the ventral hangars to protect the hangars.

You misread that. It says that the Imperial Battle Squadron has an average of 18 ships, including a Star Destroyer where as a squadron itself can be from between 12-60 ships.  

[Darth Fury]

Anna Sachae

Sorry. I've got a thing against the Trade Federation. They had the biggest, baddest ship in the galaxy, and they still managed to lose every important battle of the war. The lesson? Droid pilots suck.

I think that the droids' failures have more to do with the fact that they were going up against the heroes of the story more than anything else. If it was just generic CIS against generic Republic, than the Republic would have gotten trounced by sheer numbers alone.  

[lady_skuld]

Note the what, 24 piltos of the Naboo Royal Air Force versus the entire blockade of droid starfighters?  

[Darkened Angel]

It's the standard law of ninjitsu/awesomeness/skill. The more there are on one team, the less skill each member of it has.

Hell, if the virtually endless supply of B1s the CIS could crank out actually had any real combat abilities, the Republic would've been thoroughly beaten in a matter of days or so.  

[Anna Sachae]

Which we can attribute once again to the Empire. Movie Empire is a bit different from EU Empire in that they use ridiculous numbers of weak troops. The only times they won were when they used something too big to be damaged, like an ISD or AT-AT. EU had the Empire winning a whole lot more, and using a lot less "mass attack" strategy. TIE/d Defenders, Dark Troopers (which own my soul), the Imperial Royal Guard, the 181st TIE squadron...

Yeah, I really think the movies were unfair to the Empire, but I'm insanely biased against the terrorist insurgents that threaten the stability of the galaxy simply because they don't like their leader.  

[Rodyn]

Anna Sachae

Yeah, I really think the movies were unfair to the Empire, but I'm insanely biased against the terrorist insurgents that threaten the stability of the galaxy simply because they don't like their leader.

I like her.  

[Sol Walker]

The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots.

It wasnt just because of the Emperor that the Rebellion started up. It was his policies and the actions of his oppressive military.  

[Anna Sachae]

Hey, I'm not defending Palpatine. I personally think he was a pretty immature "leader". He liked to stroke his ego by making the biggest, baddest toys around and telling people who had lifetimes of experience in their fields that he knew their jobs better than they did. However, the Empire isn't just Palpatine.

The Republic was decaying from within. Nute Gunray and Palpatine's actions prove this better than anything else. The democracy that they used was undermining itself with the corruption of those that had enough lip to get crazy, treasonous ideas past the "government" in the Senate. It was time to rework the way things were done, and the conflict provided with the war with the Separatists was just what was needed to reassert real authority, real order to the galaxy.

Palpatine couldn't have been expected to do anything other than take over, but he wasn't the best guy for the job. Thrawn would've been a great choice, and even (I speak the heresy and shudder) Tarkin would've been a better Emperor than Palpatine was. The system was fine, with a strong military to maintain galactic safety and order while most people don't even have to look at the Stormtroopers or hear the TIEs. It was a much better government than the Rebel propaganda put it off as.

But the Rebels didn't want to oust Palpatine from his throne. They wanted to destroy the throne altogether. More war, more death and carnage. Palpatine made mistakes and needed to be replaced, but the Empire was doing its best to keep the struggling galaxy afloat. Instead of a coup, they staged a total revolution? Bad move.

Alright, rant over. Sorry about that. sweatdrop  

[Rodyn]

Nah, I'd rather have Pellaeon at the throne, or Soontir Fel.  

[Nelowulf]

The issue wasn't so much as 'keeping the galaxy afloat' as it was the fact that the cost was a total destruction of anything non-humanoid and imperial. If palps had just taken control and swept things up and stepped down, or at least hadn't implemented things like the Tarkin doctrine which relied on total fear of the government to quell idiotic uprisings, or the endorsed enslavement and degredation of many of the alien races which it 'protected', the rebels wouldn't have much ground. But eh.