Bad Garb

[Divash]

Kittywitch

While that time period is not my area of expertise; in many time periods in question marrying someone from a different religion wasn't treated anything like it is now. It was not a question of talking to your parents, it was a question of killing everyone involved; and it may have been handled differently than most other examples in period. Like I said, this particular culture is not my area of expertise.

I don't think I ever mentioned cross-religion marriages, only cross-nationalities. Let me be more clear now: My rabbi's heritage is Egyptian Jew, Arab Jew, Moroccan Jew, Tunisian Jew (I've asked again since we last spoke). His wife's family are French Jew and Italian Jew. Many, many nationalities; one religion. You're very correct, marrying outside the faith (for any faith) was taken as a very serious offense, back in the day, and among some of us it still is (albeit not a killing offense, G*D forbid, at least not with Jews -- we mourned then, as now, as if the person were dead, but we don't hasten death itself, because we hope they'll both come to their senses and return to the faith of their ancestors... but I digress).

Also, regarding time periods:

* Not all of us are historical scholars, so we don't always know we're mixing time periods. The point of the SCA, as I understand it by reading the mission statement on the SCA website, is entertaining education -- we come to learn, not just to show off what we're already experts in.

* Not all of us can afford to be that historically accurate when it comes to being able to buy the fully-historically-appropriate garb.

* Not all of us have the skills to construct historically appropriate garb, much as we'd like to do so, once we've learned what the appropriate garb would be.

* Not all of us are in good enough health to use perfectly accurate items. For instance, my flatmate narrowly avoided knee surgery, and therefore probably won't be buying or making perfectly historically accurate footwear, but rather, footwear that will help maintain proper foot and leg positioning/alignment. I've had nearly a dozen foot surgeries myself, so I'll be going for comfort over accuracy, too, especially since I recently fractured the same dratted foot (you're hearing my frustration, right?) while stepping off a curb, and my foot's all swollen now.

* For Europe, time period mattered a great deal. Things changed a lot in Europe over short amounts of time, in quick bursts. Fashions, technology, culture -- all have an impact on what a European persona would wear. In non-Europe, time period mattered a little bit less. It wasn't entirely inconsequential, of course, but fashions changed very slowly. How long has the sari been worn in India? How long has the abaya been worn in most of Africa and the Middle East? Those really don't change much at all. Those styles are at least two thousand years old, and people are still wearing them. So as you see, mixing time periods isn't as crucial for a Middle Eastern, North African, or Indian persona as it would be for, say, a Norse, Dutch, English, Irish, French, et cetera persona.

* If something is still usable, even a little bit, people in the Middle Ages tended to keep using it rather than toss it away. The same is true of not-so-wealthy folks here and now. My grandmother's got a sugaring kettle that she isn't strong enough to lift anymore, and because I'm the oldest granddaughter, I'll probably be the one to whom she leaves it when she dies. Doesn't matter to me that the thing was old in 1932 when my grandmother was born. If someone's using something too 'new' for them in Period, yeah, that's a problem. But if they're using something too 'old' for them, maybe it was passed down -- or maybe they just make it "the way their family passed down the design," or something.

I'm not making excuses for anyone or saying that this SHOULD always happen, of course. I'm just saying that it's possible to judge our neighbor with kindness, giving the benefit of the doubt.  

[Dragostae]

Divash

Kittywitch

While that time period is not my area of expertise; in many time periods in question marrying someone from a different religion wasn't treated anything like it is now. It was not a question of talking to your parents, it was a question of killing everyone involved; and it may have been handled differently than most other examples in period. Like I said, this particular culture is not my area of expertise.

I don't think I ever mentioned cross-religion marriages, only cross-nationalities. Let me be more clear now: My rabbi's heritage is Egyptian Jew, Arab Jew, Moroccan Jew, Tunisian Jew (I've asked again since we last spoke). His wife's family are French Jew and Italian Jew. Many, many nationalities; one religion. You're very correct, marrying outside the faith (for any faith) was taken as a very serious offense, back in the day, and among some of us it still is (albeit not a killing offense, G*D forbid, at least not with Jews -- we mourned then, as now, as if the person were dead, but we don't hasten death itself, because we hope they'll both come to their senses and return to the faith of their ancestors... but I digress).

Also, regarding time periods:

* Not all of us are historical scholars, so we don't always know we're mixing time periods. The point of the SCA, as I understand it by reading the mission statement on the SCA website, is entertaining education -- we come to learn, not just to show off what we're already experts in.

* Not all of us can afford to be that historically accurate when it comes to being able to buy the fully-historically-appropriate garb.

* Not all of us have the skills to construct historically appropriate garb, much as we'd like to do so, once we've learned what the appropriate garb would be.

* Not all of us are in good enough health to use perfectly accurate items. For instance, my flatmate narrowly avoided knee surgery, and therefore probably won't be buying or making perfectly historically accurate footwear, but rather, footwear that will help maintain proper foot and leg positioning/alignment. I've had nearly a dozen foot surgeries myself, so I'll be going for comfort over accuracy, too, especially since I recently fractured the same dratted foot (you're hearing my frustration, right?) while stepping off a curb, and my foot's all swollen now.

* For Europe, time period mattered a great deal. Things changed a lot in Europe over short amounts of time, in quick bursts. Fashions, technology, culture -- all have an impact on what a European persona would wear. In non-Europe, time period mattered a little bit less. It wasn't entirely inconsequential, of course, but fashions changed very slowly. How long has the sari been worn in India? How long has the abaya been worn in most of Africa and the Middle East? Those really don't change much at all. Those styles are at least two thousand years old, and people are still wearing them. So as you see, mixing time periods isn't as crucial for a Middle Eastern, North African, or Indian persona as it would be for, say, a Norse, Dutch, English, Irish, French, et cetera persona.

* If something is still usable, even a little bit, people in the Middle Ages tended to keep using it rather than toss it away. The same is true of not-so-wealthy folks here and now. My grandmother's got a sugaring kettle that she isn't strong enough to lift anymore, and because I'm the oldest granddaughter, I'll probably be the one to whom she leaves it when she dies. Doesn't matter to me that the thing was old in 1932 when my grandmother was born. If someone's using something too 'new' for them in Period, yeah, that's a problem. But if they're using something too 'old' for them, maybe it was passed down -- or maybe they just make it "the way their family passed down the design," or something.

I'm not making excuses for anyone or saying that this SHOULD always happen, of course. I'm just saying that it's possible to judge our neighbor with kindness, giving the benefit of the doubt.

This.

I wear Birkenstocks and NAOTs a lot, mostly because I have knee issues. They pass the ten foot rule, but the reason I don't have period shoes is because I need more than good sproing in my shoes. My NAOTs have buckles on them in Mary Jane style, and probably aren't as period as I'd like, but for my health and safety's sake, I'm going to wear them until I can get around to having boots/shoes with proper support and shocks made for me. Plus, y'know, I'm also half-blind and a poor college-type person, so my plastic frames aren't going anywhere for a while.

I do, however, take off my watch at events unless it's absolutely direly necessary, and if push comes to shove, I try to hand sew as much as humanly possible (despite the fact I hate sewing).  

[KariudoMegami]

Civilian13

hellogoodbyetoday

ok the people try as much as they can its not perfect so get over it the only thing that bothers me is the pirates (non sca members who come to one event dressed in halloween costumes)

i'm mildly offended by that (not in a snippy way, but in a jesting way)
i AM a pirate and i try very hard to put together a really cool outfit.
if your reffering to the artificially tattered black and white/red striped capris with a parrot attached to your shoulder then i agree with you.
i actually saw at an even someone dressed EXACTLY like capt jack sparrow right down to the beard braids...it made me twitch so bad.

You find those fellows everywhere, actually. Believe it or not, one showed up to the Ball at the last Civil War re-enactment I went to. (He made a good Jack Sparrow, admittedly, I was just wondering what on earth made him decide to dress like that for a re-enactor's ball.)  

[Sir_Catherine]

I don't know enough to spot period vs non-period when it comes to types of fabric, colors or cuts. Obvious exceptions to that being colors such as neons, cuts such as the various "whore" looks common at Ren fests and fabrics that truly look like plastic. Beyond those glaringly obvious non-period items I'm pretty much oblivious when judging other's garb.

My pet peeves are the pirates and dancing girls because very, very few do either correctly and yet most claim that they are being authentic. Dancing girls that are fanciful in a Ren Fest setting certainly are not SCA authentic, however popular they might be to look at. Chainmail is not underwear and corsets are. All the SCA 'pirates' I've seen use this claim as an excuse to drink to excess, wear fantasy swords, watch the dancing girls and ignore all SCA chivalry.

If you have a dancing girl persona and are making an effort not to simply look like a whore or if you have a pirate persona and actually care about authenticity, more power to you.  

[Dragostae]

Kittywitch

Personally, I think it would be kickass if someone had a whore for a persona. There's some really interesting ways to mark one's self as that and different behaviors, depending on the period.

One of my best friends insisted on possibly taking that route (her persona story is weeeeeeird - illegitimate daughter of a pope and then somehow ending up in the courtesan department), but she hasn't done much in terms of persona play. Then again, Calontir's weird about period play anyway.  

[Dragostae]

We don't have a lot of high persona events. We also don't have a lot of events with Enchanted Ground, either.

That being said, there is a place for them, but most of the circles I hang out with, we don't really do a lot of persona play.  

[Out to the Black]

Umm..What's Enchanted Ground? I have never heard this term at any event I have attended.  

[Dragostae]

Kittywitch

It's probably regional.
But from context, I'm guessing it's a place where you're asked to stay in persona.

Enchanted Ground is a concept that Duke Cariadoc of the Bow came up with. You are right, in that it's about staying in persona.

More can be found in this article.  

[Sir_Catherine]

First I've heard of Enchanted Ground either. It sounds like the Order of the Pixis. Does that Order exist outside of Northshield? If not, this might be another regions variation.

I agree, a truly done 'whore' persona could be a different twist. I know someone who got a kick out of having a red lantern as a part of her (registered) device. t's the dancing girls who don't intend to look or be like such that I was speaking of. You probably already figured that out though. smile  

[Dragostae]

Sir_Catherine

First I've heard of Enchanted Ground either. It sounds like the Order of the Pixis. Does that Order exist outside of Northshield? If not, this might be another regions variation.

I agree, a truly done 'whore' persona could be a different twist. I know someone who got a kick out of having a red lantern as a part of her (registered) device. t's the dancing girls who don't intend to look or be like such that I was speaking of. You probably already figured that out though. smile

You'll have to tell me about the Order, because I don't think it does exist outside Northshield. The closest we have here in Calontir is the Keeper of the Flame, I think.

"Order of the Keeper of the Flame: given to those who through their appearance, actions, and deeds demonstrate an exceptional amount of honor and courtesy, and exemplify themselves in efforts to create a medieval aura. This award may be bestowed only once per reign. Companions of the order may place 'Keeper of the Flame' after their name, and may bear the order's badge: Or, a flame purpure."  

[Sir_Catherine]

I spent time trying to pull up info on the order, but I must not have the name spelled right as nothing I tried worked. I just know that our Shire's seneschal is a member of the order and they near always have an encampment at Autumn Rose which consists of period tenting, cooking and crafting.