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kyndryana3

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:21 am
I wasn't aware that the date for Samhain changed, I thought only the solstices and equinoxes were variable (beyond the preference among some groups for celebrating the eve of a Sabbat and not the day of). What calendar are you using?  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:49 am
Archaeoastronomy.  

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:21 am
Basically because the Sabbats are observed on a Solar calendar, you have different dates every year.

Samhain happens when the sun reaches 15­° Scorpio every year. Imbolc is 15° Aquarius, Beltaine is 15° Taurus, and Lammas at 15° Leo.

Equinoxes and Solstices are measured by the Sun at 0° in their particular sign; Yule is 0° Capricorn, Spring Equinox is 0° Aries, Litha is 0° Cancer, and Autumn Equinox at 0° Libra.

So major Sabbat dates are not traditionally on a fixed calendar any more than the minor ones are.

Some groups do use fixed dates rather than observing astrologically. I'm not really sure how they've determined the 'traditional' fixed dates for the major Sabbats, other than they seem to be close to some Christian observances, some of which may now be secular observances, such as Hallowe'en.  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:38 am
Again, sorry I'm about to have another major "duh" moment, So, the Sabbats, or atleast major ones like Samhain and Yule, do not have a "set date"? I'm just re-clarifying just, because I always thought those dates were October 31st which did correlate with other beliefs or holidays following Christianity and then I thought Yule was always on the winter solstice which was either December 21st-22nd.

Where is this calendar?! Are there calendars that actually have the Sabbats on them that can be found in stores or are they actually online and you have to order them? (Sorry this is totally off candle magick sweatdrop )  

Mnemosyne-rae

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Morgandria

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:22 pm
Mnemosyne-rae
Again, sorry I'm about to have another major "duh" moment, So, the Sabbats, or atleast major ones like Samhain and Yule, do not have a "set date"? I'm just re-clarifying just, because I always thought those dates were October 31st which did correlate with other beliefs or holidays following Christianity and then I thought Yule was always on the winter solstice which was either December 21st-22nd.

Where is this calendar?! Are there calendars that actually have the Sabbats on them that can be found in stores or are they actually online and you have to order them? (Sorry this is totally off candle magick sweatdrop )


It's, as San said, ancient. Many cultures used various types of calendar devices - stone circles and various types of henge, in many places - to track the movement of the sun and moon, and use them for the basis of their sacred days. Those days would have been the same every year in an ancient society, but because of the way the sun and moon move compared to the modern Gregorian calendar's structure means that dates calculated astrologically move around a bit. So you can say that a date is generally within a few days range of a certain time every year, with some days more likely than others, but the date will not always be the same.

I'm sure you can buy astrological calendars that will tell you the degree of the Sun on a particular day, but as for specifically Pagan calendars that do so I couldn't tell you.

Modern neo-pagans who can't be arsed with trying to figure out an astrologically-based holiday structure tend to use fixed dates, that they make up for themselves with various reasonings and rationales. Bear in mind that the 'Wheel of the Year' as we know it now is essentially a modern construct that came about when Gardner created Wicca - and it was quickly co-opted by various forms of eclectic neo-pagan witchcrafts. The Sabbats are a blend of different cultural holidays that were brought to Britain by multiple waves of invaders, and have a basis in Britain's agricultural cycles. None of these individual ancient peoples would have celebrated all of the Sabbats - most cultures had 3 or 4 major holidays based on the changing seasons. Other holidays for these cultures depended on cultural values and practices.  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:54 pm
Here's the linky to the site that San mentioned - Archaeoastronomy  

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