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 Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:38 pm
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That seems alot of homework. I'm sorry I might not be able to read all of the things you gave me. I'm a little busy.
But I'm going to tell you to do this. Try to look into this world, regardless of what Islam says. Those sky, as wide as they can get, this planet, as big as it gets. Someone created them. And we are brought into here for a reason. It's a matter of believing. Maybe I can't convince you, because I lack of information.
Let's put this aside. Maybe Quran doesn't have your full scripts. If you don't believe that Allah sent Quran to Prophet Muhammad, then, how could've Prophet Muhammad know how is the baby created in his mother womb? There wasn't any kind of technology that allowed Prophet Muhammad to study those conditions!
(O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). ) Al Hajj - Verse 5.
Source: http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation22.php
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:15 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 That seems alot of homework. I'm sorry I might not be able to read all of the things you gave me. I'm a little busy.
Mini_Angel_1994 Let's put this aside. Maybe Quran doesn't have your full scripts.
Mini_Angel_1994 If you don't believe that Allah sent Quran to Prophet Muhammad, then, how could've Prophet Muhammad know how is the baby created in his mother womb? There wasn't any kind of technology that allowed Prophet Muhammad to study those conditions!
Sorry, honey, the Israelites beat him by a long run.
Pslam 139:13-16 You created my inmost self, knit me together in my mother's womb. For so many marvels I thank you; a wonder am I, and all your works are wonders. You knew me through and through, my being held no secrets from you, when I was being formed in secret, textured in the depths of the earth. Your eyes could see my embryo. In your book all my days were inscribed, every one that was fixed is there.
These were written from around 1000 B.C.E. until 400 B.C.E.
Judaism had a head start on Muhammad on this conception (pardon the pun).
You don't need to have an ultrasound to know that something is alive inside of you when you're pregnant. neutral
Mini_Angel_1994 (O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). ) Al Hajj - Verse 5. Source: http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation22.php
Quote: that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm,
Genesis But Onan, knowing that the line would not count as his, spilt his seed on the ground every time he slept with his brother's wife, to avoid providing offspring for his brother. What he did was offensive to Yahweh, who killed him too.
This is ancient information, known by the people of the time. It's not really unique, nor is Muhammad that privileged.
Quote: then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you
Aristotle beat Muhammad on embryology by at least 1,000 years
The concept of formation in the womb and where babies come from, is not that divinely inspired as you might think. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:28 am
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Uhmmm, so you're saying that, rather so many thoughts are rushing throughout my mind. I'm going to try to simplify them.
So you're saying that Torah beated Quran? Ok! But let me tell you, it's the same God who sent both. It doesn't make any difference! But the deal is that Allah when he sent each and every prophet, he sent them with a miracle that matches the people he's sending. Let's take Salih for an example, Salih's people ( Thamood ) were so good in buildings, they used to carve castles out of rock mountains. So Salih's miracle was to get a pregnant camel out of a rock. So that made people surprised, that Salih was able to do that. ( To the Thamud people (We sent) Salih, one of their own brethren: He said: "O my people! worship Allah. ye have no other god but Him. Now hath come unto you a clear (Sign) from your Lord! This she-camel of Allah is a Sign unto you: So leave her to graze in Allah.s earth, and let her come to no harm, or ye shall be seized with a grievous punishment. ) Al A'raf Verse 73
The same thing goes for Muhammad (PBUH), Allah sent him the Quran, as nobody can get something like it. Arabs were so intelligent in poetry, their Arabic was so nice and what we call ( faseeh ) That means very fluent. So Allah came up with Quran that is more fluent than them, that they can't bring up something like it. So they can believe that Muhammad isn't making it up. As Salih didn't make up his religon.
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:04 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 So you're saying that Torah beated Quran?
History says so...it's a no brain matter, even for someone such as me, who doesn't know too much of the Koran, that this is a logical statement. The Pentateuch was already very familiar in the eyes of Jews and the rest of the world.
How do you even know that your prophet wasn't ripping off of other religions? Mecca was an extremely important trading center. Such places are sources of ideas from ideals to religious concepts to sciences and knowledge.
Mini_Angel_1994 The same thing goes for Muhammad (PBUH), Allah sent him the Quran, as nobody can get something like it.
What makes you so sure? Besides eloquent speech?
Mini_Angel_1994 Arabs were so intelligent in poetry,
What makes Arabs the sole exception? The Greeks were known for their spectacular epic poems. Have you heard African tribal songs? They're amazing. The japanese have beautiful poems. So did the Aztec as well as the Canaanites.
Mini_Angel_1994 So Allah came up with Quran that is more fluent than them, that they can't bring up something like it. So they can believe that Muhammad isn't making it up. As Salih didn't make up his religon.
Or he's just an eloquent speaker.
Speaking beautifully is a talent, not a divine attribute, nor is it designated to social status. You have people like Martin Luther King, Hitler, Ghandi, and many other kinds of people that are very influential in their words. These people made huge impacts in the world, for good or evil, but majority of people don't believe they're prophets or magical or something like that. Hitler, for example, managed to convince people that those who were blond and blue eyed (or fit the description extremely well) were descended from the Aryan...or rather his understanding of it....a god-like race once endowed with superpowers that lost their superiority through mixing with imperfect blood. Some people still believe in this today. What makes you sure that this isn't just another cult? You already have indicated your preference to Arabic and the Arabs. And I have seen and heard Arabs that say they are better than anyone else. I understand that not all Arabs are like it, but a good majority of them seem to act in that way, and make it a point to those who are non Arabs and especially to non-Muslims.
oh, i wanted to ask, what translation did you use? Is it available online? |
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:26 am
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:41 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:47 am
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Ok! Let's get relaxed, Zaaki is someone who acts on the hurry. But we should teach him how to talk and teach people his ideas.
Zaaki, you need to be patient, and teach your ideas in a calm way, and in a humble way. So, give facts, not opinions!
And - Can I call you thought? - thought, you really won't understand, because you're not an arabic speaker. Quran is something that every arabian that reads it, knows that it's something ubnormal, something special, something not made by human. Quran is a book that is from Allah. And nobody, can bring up something like it.
Like, you can imitate certain ways of really good speaking, you can imitate it. But Quran, you can't even imitate it. I really think that you should learn Arabic to understand this fact.
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:56 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 And - Can I call you thought? - thought, you really won't understand, because you're not an arabic speaker. Quran is something that every arabian that reads it, knows that it's something ubnormal, something special, something not made by human. Quran is a book that is from Allah. And nobody, can bring up something like it.
I perfer Absurd, but it's okay.
How do you know it cannot be made by humans?
There are lots of special things in this world. What gives yours superiority?
Mini_Angel_1994 Like, you can imitate certain ways of really good speaking, you can imitate it. But Quran, you can't even imitate it. I really think that you should learn Arabic to understand this fact.
If you can't even imitate it, why do you follow it then? Why do you believe in it? |
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:07 pm
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I think I should speak better English, because you keep misunderstanding me!
I'm a writer ok, I love writing stories, (etc.). So I'm reading this book, and I think that the author presented his thought very well. Oh, I think this would be good for my new story, oh I'm going to imitate the way he presented his thought.
Ok, so if you want to write kind of poem, you want to imitate how Allah presented his orders, you can't even do that, because it's so fluent, and ( Faseeh ). It's too dificult for you to imitate it.
I told you that if you find that the way this author writes is very good, he's good. No matter how difficult it is, you're still going to learn how to imitate his way of speaking. But with Quran, it's different, you can't bring up something like it.
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:36 pm
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Mini_Angel_1994 I think I should speak better English, because you keep misunderstanding me! I'm a writer ok, I love writing stories, (etc.). So I'm reading this book, and I think that the author presented his thought very well. Oh, I think this would be good for my new story, oh I'm going to imitate the way he presented his thought. Ok, so if you want to write kind of poem, you want to imitate how Allah presented his orders, you can't even do that, because it's so fluent, and ( Faseeh ). It's too dificult for you to imitate it.
Why is it so difficult to imitate?
because it is in a foreign language? There are epic poems that people have tried to imitate but never mastered...are you going to start bowing before those words as well?
Mini_Angel_1994 I told you that if you find that the way this author writes is very good, he's good. No matter how difficult it is, you're still going to learn how to imitate his way of speaking. But with Quran, it's different, you can't bring up something like it.
because...? |
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