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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:03 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:54 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:59 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:00 pm
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Rin Kairiu First off... only two percent of the female population thinks of themselves as truly beautiful... So of course Bella would have a problem with her looks... She's not Rosalie. Edwards was only a vision of perfection to Bella... All the vampires are beautiful and Alice was a vision of perfection to Jasper... Rosalie, even human, was a vision of perfection to any guy... Except Edward, lol. Most teens will drop everything for what they believe is true love. Edward was overprotective, not nessicarily controlling. If he was controlling in the feminist sense, he would have pushed Bella for sex or something. I do recall Bella and Edward being married while she got pregnant. It's not like they were irresponsible... though the pregnancy did come as a shock. That's just my two cents...
you tell it, sista. lol. |
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:02 pm
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Aqua Anjel Rin Kairiu First off... only two percent of the female population thinks of themselves as truly beautiful... So of course Bella would have a problem with her looks... She's not Rosalie. Edwards was only a vision of perfection to Bella... All the vampires are beautiful and Alice was a vision of perfection to Jasper... Rosalie, even human, was a vision of perfection to any guy... Except Edward, lol. Most teens will drop everything for what they believe is true love. Edward was overprotective, not nessicarily controlling. If he was controlling in the feminist sense, he would have pushed Bella for sex or something. I do recall Bella and Edward being married while she got pregnant. It's not like they were irresponsible... though the pregnancy did come as a shock. That's just my two cents... you tell it, sista. lol.
WOOT! whee |
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:12 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:15 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:36 pm
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I cannot see how this book glorifies teen pregnancy. Bella is basically killed by this baby growing inside of her. It breaks several of her ribs, her pelvis and her spine, bruises her stomach so completely it turns completely blue/black, and starves her for like three weeks . . . So that I completely disagree with.
As for her self esteem, I think it comes more from the fact that Bella has never really fit in anywhere, she has a lot of trouble relating to other human beings, never on the same page as everyone else, and I think this makes her feel like an outcast, like she some sort of freak no one wants to be around, she would probably feel somewhat abnormal. So I think that plays a pretty big part on why she doesn't feel pretty, and always feel out of place. I can't say I would have high self esteem if I always felt that way.
I'm not sure I can really comment on her willingness to drop everything for Edward. I think it comes a lot from he love for him, and as I have never felt love as strongly as that, I don't really know. But I think it's a lot like you would do anything for this one person, do anything to be with this one person, their life is higher on the list than your own. It's not about you anymore, but this other person. And she sees herself as a death magnet, so by removing herself from Charlie's life, she sees it s keeping him safe the only way she can.
Edward's controlling personality I think comes a lot from when he was raised. I don't know a lot about how family life was in that time, but I'm pretty sure men felt it kind of as their responsibility to care for the women, that's how things went, and just because it's a different time doesn't mean you can throw away all the things you where taught as a child. It doesn't work that way. Plus, I think Edward is controlling (although I don't find him that way) because he can't stand to loose Bella. He does what he does to try and keep Bella safe in his mind, not because she's the female and he's the male.
And lastly, Stephenie has always said she writes for herself. So if her religion seeps into the book, then we just have to deal with it, it wasn't written for us, it was written for her and if we want to read it we have to deal with the fact that she is indeed a follower of the mormon religion and if some of her beliefs are put into the books, that's just the way it's going to be.
I, myself, have never found these books anti feminist or religious. I don't know why people do. My dad has always said 'Human beings won't truly be happy unless there's a problem t complain about' and I think that comes into play here. I, being a female, do not see the anti feminism supposedly being shown here, I think some people are just a wee bit over sensitive. It's more anti human than anti feminism in my opinion. I mean, look at Alice, she marches to the beat of her own drum, she's beautiful, and she's got powers beyond those already powerful.
I'm not sure why people always find the need to find problems where there are none . . .
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:49 am
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Quote: I cannot see how this book glorifies teen pregnancy. Bella is basically killed by this baby growing inside of her. It breaks several of her ribs, her pelvis and her spine, bruises her stomach so completely it turns completely blue/black, and starves her for like three weeks . . . So that I completely disagree with.
I agree with every single thing that you said with the exception of this. I get that the baby wasnt born as a human baby, but the way that baby didn't cry, and the family all took care of her, and noone was up late watching over her, idk.
It sounds stupid, but I can get what whoever was writing the article was trying to say. She was saying that there are a lot of younger girls that were reading it that havent read about raising a child that now only know about Bella's experience. Even the way that the baby took commands.
That being said, I dont think that that makes the book antifeminism, and I get that it is Meyer's book. It would not have been good for the baby to be irritating because she wanted it to be a happy ending.
[Though I do think that the book kind of downplayed the pregnancy PAINS... I mean... the family was alerted by the sound of her ribs breaking, not by her complaints about the pain... realistically speaking, I don't care how self sacrificing you are, pain is pain sad ]
I do think that the people that get truly offended at the idea of raising a child as a teenager easily are women who want recognition for their struggles, which makes sense. |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:40 pm
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RisSohma Quote: Seriously, when you think of it, Bella is more realistic. I think people read too much into the book. I like how you put that =P Realistically thinking, would you stay with Edward, despite how controlling he is? I would! That doesnt make me a failure as a woman, it makes me an accepting person.
It would be a different story if he just wanted Bella to do what he wanted just and never think for herself. Edward is encouraging. The guy wanted her to have a life. He tried to steer her away from things that could potentially hurt her including himself. He did not want her to become a vampire. All he wanted was for her to be happy wheather with him or Jacob. He even says if Bella didn't love him anymore, he'd let Jacob have her if it was what she wanted. How is that controlling? Disconnecting her car to try and keep her from an unstable werewolf (which is his opinion) is not controlling.
I would stay with Edward because it's obvious even from Bella's point of veiw he just wants what's SAFE for her. You can't always look at things from a negitive prospective.....I really don't think people who call Edward controlling look at the situation at all sides. |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:21 pm
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.Bucket.of.Joy. I cannot see how this book glorifies teen pregnancy. Bella is basically killed by this baby growing inside of her. It breaks several of her ribs, her pelvis and her spine, bruises her stomach so completely it turns completely blue/black, and starves her for like three weeks . . . So that I completely disagree with.
As for her self esteem, I think it comes more from the fact that Bella has never really fit in anywhere, she has a lot of trouble relating to other human beings, never on the same page as everyone else, and I think this makes her feel like an outcast, like she some sort of freak no one wants to be around, she would probably feel somewhat abnormal. So I think that plays a pretty big part on why she doesn't feel pretty, and always feel out of place. I can't say I would have high self esteem if I always felt that way.
I'm not sure I can really comment on her willingness to drop everything for Edward. I think it comes a lot from he love for him, and as I have never felt love as strongly as that, I don't really know. But I think it's a lot like you would do anything for this one person, do anything to be with this one person, their life is higher on the list than your own. It's not about you anymore, but this other person. And she sees herself as a death magnet, so by removing herself from Charlie's life, she sees it s keeping him safe the only way she can.
Edward's controlling personality I think comes a lot from when he was raised. I don't know a lot about how family life was in that time, but I'm pretty sure men felt it kind of as their responsibility to care for the women, that's how things went, and just because it's a different time doesn't mean you can throw away all the things you where taught as a child. It doesn't work that way. Plus, I think Edward is controlling (although I don't find him that way) because he can't stand to loose Bella. He does what he does to try and keep Bella safe in his mind, not because she's the female and he's the male.
And lastly, Stephenie has always said she writes for herself. So if her religion seeps into the book, then we just have to deal with it, it wasn't written for us, it was written for her and if we want to read it we have to deal with the fact that she is indeed a follower of the mormon religion and if some of her beliefs are put into the books, that's just the way it's going to be.
I, myself, have never found these books anti feminist or religious. I don't know why people do. My dad has always said 'Human beings won't truly be happy unless there's a problem t complain about' and I think that comes into play here. I, being a female, do not see the anti feminism supposedly being shown here, I think some people are just a wee bit over sensitive. It's more anti human than anti feminism in my opinion. I mean, look at Alice, she marches to the beat of her own drum, she's beautiful, and she's got powers beyond those already powerful.
I'm not sure why people always find the need to find problems where there are none . . .
Agreed! |
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:35 am
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:06 pm
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Rin Kairiu Aqua Anjel Rin Kairiu First off... only two percent of the female population thinks of themselves as truly beautiful... So of course Bella would have a problem with her looks... She's not Rosalie. Edwards was only a vision of perfection to Bella... All the vampires are beautiful and Alice was a vision of perfection to Jasper... Rosalie, even human, was a vision of perfection to any guy... Except Edward, lol. Most teens will drop everything for what they believe is true love. Edward was overprotective, not nessicarily controlling. If he was controlling in the feminist sense, he would have pushed Bella for sex or something. I do recall Bella and Edward being married while she got pregnant. It's not like they were irresponsible... though the pregnancy did come as a shock. That's just my two cents... you tell it, sista. lol. WOOT! whee
I agree |
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:43 pm
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RisSohma Quote: I cannot see how this book glorifies teen pregnancy. Bella is basically killed by this baby growing inside of her. It breaks several of her ribs, her pelvis and her spine, bruises her stomach so completely it turns completely blue/black, and starves her for like three weeks . . . So that I completely disagree with. I agree with every single thing that you said with the exception of this. I get that the baby wasnt born as a human baby, but the way that baby didn't cry, and the family all took care of her, and noone was up late watching over her, idk. It sounds stupid, but I can get what whoever was writing the article was trying to say. She was saying that there are a lot of younger girls that were reading it that havent read about raising a child that now only know about Bella's experience. Even the way that the baby took commands. That being said, I dont think that that makes the book antifeminism, and I get that it is Meyer's book. It would not have been good for the baby to be irritating because she wanted it to be a happy ending. [Though I do think that the book kind of downplayed the pregnancy PAINS... I mean... the family was alerted by the sound of her ribs breaking, not by her complaints about the pain... realistically speaking, I don't care how self sacrificing you are, pain is pain sad ] I do think that the people that get truly offended at the idea of raising a child as a teenager easily are women who want recognition for their struggles, which makes sense.
Ahh, yes I see the point.
But! I still have a point to deflect this.
The baby is indeed inhuman. She is a half breed. She grows at a much quicker mental and physical rate (much like the wolves when the gene kicks in. Same number of chromosomes, same basic growth pattern) than humans do. That being said, it only makes sense she was no average baby. The book shows her as having coherent, intellegent thoughts before even being fully develloped. It's just a part of her general make up. The way she is. It's not because everything in the Twilight universe is perfect for Bella, the image of anti femmisnism.
We cannot compare this 24 chromosome child birth to our measly 23 chromosome child births. Can't compare oranges to apples, they're just too different. |
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:32 pm
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I can't stress the fact enough that just because Stephanie is Mormon, it doesn't mean she must feel like all women should stay at home with their kids and be submissive to their husbands. It really bugs me that people just assume things like that. It's like saying "Oh, well, she's blond, so that explains everything." It doesn't.
I don't think Bella is submissive at all, nor is Edward controlling. Wouldn't you want to keep the people you love as safe as possible? And if you were in love with someone, wouldn't you want to do whatever it took to make them happy?
And, since Bella is married when she has the baby, I don't see why people are throwing a fit. She's 18. She can make her own decisions. It's not like she got knocked up. No, she wasn't expecting it, but that doesn't make it a bad thing. |
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