|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:22 am
 |
|
|
 |
black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM. That murderer made himself to be no better than Tiller himself was. What Tiller did, was perfectly legal, what his killer did, was not. And there's a difference between a potential life, and one already in progress. Just saying... So if you'd shot Hitler in 1940, knowing full well what was coming in the next five years... Except that, in 1940, you WOULDN'T know. Hypothetical fail. It'd still be "wrong". You're not guilty of a crime, until you've committed it. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:30 pm
|
|
|
|
Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM. That murderer made himself to be no better than Tiller himself was. What Tiller did, was perfectly legal, what his killer did, was not. And there's a difference between a potential life, and one already in progress. Just saying... So if you'd shot Hitler in 1940, knowing full well what was coming in the next five years... Except that, in 1940, you WOULDN'T know. Hypothetical fail. It'd still be "wrong". You're not guilty of a crime, until you've committed it. And that's why attempted murder and conspiracy to commit are illegal.
Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one.
Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:12 pm
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Except that, in 1940, you WOULDN'T know. Hypothetical fail. It'd still be "wrong". You're not guilty of a crime, until you've committed it. And that's why attempted murder and conspiracy to commit are illegal. Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one. Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:50 pm
|
|
|
|
Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Except that, in 1940, you WOULDN'T know. Hypothetical fail. It'd still be "wrong". You're not guilty of a crime, until you've committed it. And that's why attempted murder and conspiracy to commit are illegal. Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one. Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. You're saying the words, but I don't think you get that that's exactly my point. You don't have to DO a bad act to be a bad person, you have to plan to or to try. Assuming fate (which is safe to say in a time-travel scenario), Hitler was evil from the moment he was born.
I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't evil from the womb. I think something had traumatized him, or something like that. I don't know, I'm just of the mind that no one is ever born evil, they BECOME evil. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:30 am
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel It'd still be "wrong". You're not guilty of a crime, until you've committed it. And that's why attempted murder and conspiracy to commit are illegal. Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one. Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. You're saying the words, but I don't think you get that that's exactly my point. You don't have to DO a bad act to be a bad person, you have to plan to or to try. Assuming fate (which is safe to say in a time-travel scenario), Hitler was evil from the moment he was born. I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't evil from the womb. I think something had traumatized him, or something like that. I don't know, I'm just of the mind that no one is ever born evil, they BECOME evil.
Quote: Quote: Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before. Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:37 pm
|
|
|
|
For mister Tiller, I'm upset about his death. If a political view leads to people needing to kill, blow s**t up, etc. then they are most likely wrong. Let alone people calling it "justifiable homocide" and the opposing party a Nazi. :/
But abortion is not the best thing in my books either. I admit, I'd love for a world without a need for abortions, but that will never happen in my life time. So, although I don't like it, I am perfectly fine with others getting one.
If you don't know, I'm strongly against circumcision, so abortion is like, a big pain for me. Especially since the child never had and never will have a say in the abortion. But the mother really is, sadly, more valued. And if birth means the mothers mental or physical health is in danger, than I'll support it.
I just can't bare the thought of a mother dying with her baby in her arms (in some cases, baby is also dying) than just the baby in a late term abortion... Call it emotions, if you want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Vice Captain
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:48 pm
|
|
|
|
Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel And that's why attempted murder and conspiracy to commit are illegal. Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one. Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. You're saying the words, but I don't think you get that that's exactly my point. You don't have to DO a bad act to be a bad person, you have to plan to or to try. Assuming fate (which is safe to say in a time-travel scenario), Hitler was evil from the moment he was born. I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't evil from the womb. I think something had traumatized him, or something like that. I don't know, I'm just of the mind that no one is ever born evil, they BECOME evil. This has gotten horribly off-track. Let's throw back a few posts. Quote: Quote: Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before. Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM. Why not?
Because TILLER had a legal right to life. A fetus does not. His killing of fetuses, is perfectly legal, but the other guy killing HIM is not.
Morally justifiable? I'll grant you that. But, as we've both made perfectly clear, many, many times, morals are not laws. "Morals" don't come into play, when dealing with legal justice. And LEGAL justice, is what matters, most. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:48 pm
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Because TILLER had a legal right to life. A fetus does not. His killing of fetuses, is perfectly legal, but the other guy killing HIM is not. Morally justifiable? I'll grant you that. But, as we've both made perfectly clear, many, many times, morals are not laws. "Morals" don't come into play, when dealing with legal justice. And LEGAL justice, is what matters, most.
It'll be useful to me in the future. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:19 am
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Fresnel black_wing_angel Those are classified as their own individual crimes. You're not really a murderer just because you TRIED to be one, or conspired to become one. Basically, you can't be arrested for murder, if you didn't commit one. That's why they created laws against attempting, or even conspiring to murder, so that you wouldn't have to succeed, to be in trouble. You're saying the words, but I don't think you get that that's exactly my point. You don't have to DO a bad act to be a bad person, you have to plan to or to try. Assuming fate (which is safe to say in a time-travel scenario), Hitler was evil from the moment he was born. I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't evil from the womb. I think something had traumatized him, or something like that. I don't know, I'm just of the mind that no one is ever born evil, they BECOME evil. This has gotten horribly off-track. Let's throw back a few posts. Quote: Quote: Most likely, Tiller would have left that church and gone right back to doing exactly what he was doing before. Most likely, sure. But that's still no justification for killing HIM. Why not? Because TILLER had a legal right to life. A fetus does not. His killing of fetuses, is perfectly legal, but the other guy killing HIM is not. Morally justifiable? I'll grant you that. But, as we've both made perfectly clear, many, many times, morals are not laws. "Morals" don't come into play, when dealing with legal justice. And LEGAL justice, is what matters, most.
@Brinks: Abortion is legal in that state, ergo fetuses have no inalienable right to live, only a privilege which can be revoked by a handful of people, most notably the mother. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:31 pm
|
|
|
|
Misses Brinks black_wing_angel Because TILLER had a legal right to life. A fetus does not. His killing of fetuses, is perfectly legal, but the other guy killing HIM is not. Morally justifiable? I'll grant you that. But, as we've both made perfectly clear, many, many times, morals are not laws. "Morals" don't come into play, when dealing with legal justice. And LEGAL justice, is what matters, most. Just for the ******** of it, source on fetuses not having legal right to live. It'll be useful to me in the future.
Well, the fact that abortion is legal in that state, serves as proof enough. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
black_wing_angel Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
