initiation

[12lovelikewinter21]

i know that many aspects of initiation is supposed to be kept secret but i know that there are some things that are aloud to be shared. so i was wondering what yall could tell me about what goes on in initiations without breaking any of the rules. all i know is that you have to be 18 or older and what someone else has already told me which is

Initiation involves the kissing of genitals. You are naked throughout, and you are bound and whipped. While many of the elements of ritual aren't overtly sexual, you still have to be initiated to experience those other rituals.

is there anything else yall could tell me about initiation or anything important that yall think i might need to know?  

[ncsweet]

Wicca : the old religion in the new millennium by Vivianne Crowley and A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches Handbook by Janet and Stewart Farrar are probably the two books that I can think of off the top of my head that cover the aspects of initiation the best (at least the non-oathbound parts).

.  

[Morgandria]

12lovelikewinter21

i know that many aspects of initiation is supposed to be kept secret but i know that there are some things that are aloud to be shared. so i was wondering what yall could tell me about what goes on in initiations without breaking any of the rules. all i know is that you have to be 18 or older and what someone else has already told me which is

is there anything else yall could tell me about initiation or anything important that yall think i might need to know?

There's pretty much nothing to be said about it, for me - it's oathbound for the most part, and what's not oathbound can be found in various places and sources.

My coven said nothing to me regarding initiation. It simply was not discussed, past asking me if I felt I was ready, and setting a date. I had some ideas about what to expect, but I deliberately avoided looking up any information about it. Initiation is entry into the Mysteries - an experiential event, and going into it armed with expectations and ideas and research, to me, completely misses the point. Doing too much research and prep for something like initiation may leave you feeling disappointed, or confused - it ruins the experience, which is the entire reason you're there.

You can't really prepare for it, even if you try. It is life-changing in a way - it rocks the foundations of your life, for a considerable amount of time afterwards. Even afterwards, it's hard to describe...even if you could, and it wasn't oathbound. I still have no words to describe it, myself.  

[doistu]

Morgandria, I hope this question isn't too forward or probing and I apologise if it is but,
I was wondering how you felt leading up to your initiation if you didn't prepare for it? Was it relatively informal? By this I mean, you didn't have to learn a role or structure for it?

Thank you  

[Morgandria]

doistu

Morgandria, I hope this question isn't too forward or probing and I apologise if it is but,
I was wondering how you felt leading up to your initiation if you didn't prepare for it? Was it relatively informal? By this I mean, you didn't have to learn a role or structure for it?

Thank you

I was...apphrensive, to be honest. It is frightening. You're faced with an ordeal - a test of will, strength, knowledge, and trust. You're stepping through a doorway with no knowledge of the realm beyond the threshold.

It was very formal. I fasted for three days beforehand. My role was simply to show up, properly prepared, and do as I was instructed.

The idea is that you're prepared for initiation by your studies before hand, and you're initiated when your initiator(s) think you are ready for it. Some people take longer than others.  

[doistu]

Morgandria

doistu

Morgandria, I hope this question isn't too forward or probing and I apologise if it is but,
I was wondering how you felt leading up to your initiation if you didn't prepare for it? Was it relatively informal? By this I mean, you didn't have to learn a role or structure for it?

Thank you

I was...apphrensive, to be honest. It is frightening. You're faced with an ordeal - a test of will, strength, knowledge, and trust. You're stepping through a doorway with no knowledge of the realm beyond the threshold.

It was very formal. I fasted for three days beforehand. My role was simply to show up, properly prepared, and do as I was instructed.

The idea is that you're prepared for initiation by your studies before hand, and you're initiated when your initiator(s) think you are ready for it. Some people take longer than others.

Wow. It sounds like an amazing experience. Thank you for sharing  

[Ivy_tsuki]

I have a ...interesting... opinion on initiation. I'm a very earth centered, shamanic-ish, strange, path. I don't do very much high magic at all mostly because I don't really feel the need. I have worked with two different "covens". Niether of them required any kind of initiation. One of them required a vote of the elders and agreement by all members. Both groups where chaos groups. When I am talking about chaos I am not talking about the forces of craziness and distruction. A chaos group or coven is where the members come from all different pagan backgrounds aka they are not all wiccan, shamanic, norse, celtic, hermetics, etc. etc. etc. each ritual is done by two members in the style of their path. I will note here that the wiccan members are 3 lvl initiates from other covens perviously. So if the wiccans were incharge of the ritual, it would be wiccan, shamanic guys = shamanic ritual. It was amazing because you get exposed to many many different paths and what they do. I must note here, that when in a chaos group, what ever path is doing that ritual, that is the path you are following for that night. You have to be rather flexible. Anyways, my point of this is, only trad. wiccans do initiations, many paths don't require them at all, and for the most part think them silly and are there to make things appear more mystical and magical then they really are. Its nice having to go through some crazy elaborate ritual sometimes to make you feel apart of something, but true initiations happen on their own direct from diety. As long as you are working with a good group/elders/people who know what they are doing don't worry about initiations. Like I said, many of the elders I know don't even bother with them unless their path dictates. The only path I have ever seen that requires and I would not learn with out those initiations is Santeria and Voodon. And if you are learning Santeria or Voodon by yourself, stop right now, and go find a house/family to join.  

[Ivy_tsuki]

Ivy_tsuki

I have a ...interesting... opinion on initiation. I'm a very earth centered, shamanic-ish, strange, path. I don't do very much high magic at all mostly because I don't really feel the need. I have worked with two different "covens". Niether of them required any kind of initiation. One of them required a vote of the elders and agreement by all members. Both groups where chaos groups. When I am talking about chaos I am not talking about the forces of craziness and distruction. A chaos group or coven is where the members come from all different pagan backgrounds aka they are not all wiccan, shamanic, norse, celtic, hermetics, etc. etc. etc. each ritual is done by two members in the style of their path. I will note here that the wiccan members are 3 lvl initiates from other covens perviously. So if the wiccans were incharge of the ritual, it would be wiccan, shamanic guys = shamanic ritual. It was amazing because you get exposed to many many different paths and what they do. I must note here, that when in a chaos group, what ever path is doing that ritual, that is the path you are following for that night. You have to be rather flexible. Anyways, my point of this is, only trad. wiccans do initiations, many paths don't require them at all, and for the most part think them silly and are there to make things appear more mystical and magical then they really are. Its nice having to go through some crazy elaborate ritual sometimes to make you feel apart of something, but true initiations happen on their own direct from diety. As long as you are working with a good group/elders/people who know what they are doing don't worry about initiations. Like I said, many of the elders I know don't even bother with them unless their path dictates. The only path I have ever seen that requires and I would not learn with out those initiations is Santeria and Voodon. And if you are learning Santeria or Voodon by yourself, stop right now, and go find a house/family to join.

I wanted to mention that in one of the chaos groups I was the youngest person there by a good 15yrs, in the other the members where of similar age to me and elders from the community oversaw the rituals etc. Funny enough I was moved from the younger group to the older group because (not trying to sound cocky but for the sake of my point) more advanced then the others. I never went through any initiations. The elders know by being in ritual with you, talking, etc. etc. etc. what level you are. So I was moved up with the 3rd degrees. Just because your path, or you don't have or require initiations doesn't mean that you don't know anything, or that you will remain only a low level. There are other ways of learning.  

[Morgandria]

The post is not addressing initiation in general, but rather Wiccan initiation specifically. We hold a particular view of what is legitimately Wicca here; there's a sticky at the top on the main forum about it.

I am agreed that other pagan paths do not nescessarily involve initiation, and some recognize initiation in different ways. Wicca is not one of those paths, though.  

[Ivy_tsuki]

I clearly stated that that was my own opinion and don't think I said anything about non-traditional wicca (using the definition that the group set forth in the sticky). I just said there are other paths, don't caught up in 'initiations' as most people do. I also clearly stated I follow a pagan path, not a wiccan one. Just saying.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Ivy_tsuki

Both groups where chaos groups. When I am talking about chaos I am not talking about the forces of craziness and distruction. A chaos group or coven is where the members come from all different pagan backgrounds aka they are not all wiccan, shamanic, norse, celtic, hermetics, etc. etc. etc. each ritual is done by two members in the style of their path.

"Eclectic" is the term you want here. Chaos means something rather different.  

[12lovelikewinter21]

ok i have a new question. why do people go through initiation? like what do you get, or maybe get is the wrong word, how does it change you? i know some people say you cant truly be wiccan without going through initiation, to me thats a matter of opinion, but i guess that would be one thing you would gain from it? i think you understand what im trying to ask.  

[Morgandria]

12lovelikewinter21

ok i have a new question. why do people go through initiation? like what do you get, or maybe get is the wrong word, how does it change you? i know some people say you cant truly be wiccan without going through initiation, to me thats a matter of opinion, but i guess that would be one thing you would gain from it? i think you understand what im trying to ask.

For some it's a matter of membership - something they undergo to be a full member of a group. For others, it's a calling - they are called to a certain path or vocation, and initiation is the way that they enter into answering that calling.

The experience of undergoing initiation is the actual point: it gives a person access to something new, whether that something new is a spiritual Mystery to be understood through experience, a particular type of energy attunement, or a set of instructions guiding the initiate into future practice.

I can't articulate to you how it changes a person. It is unique, and doesn't change everyone in the same way. For some people it might merely be a formality. For others it may be the catalyst of an entirely new way of understanding the world around them.  

[mechanical kitsy]

ncsweet

Wicca : the old religion in the new millennium by Vivianne Crowley and A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches Handbook by Janet and Stewart Farrar are probably the two books that I can think of off the top of my head that cover the aspects of initiation the best (at least the non-oathbound parts).

.

My uncle gave me a Buckland book that has some info on initiation. I haven't read it entirely, but I know it has a section. I think its the complete book of witchcraft or something.