Death and Self

[sex.drugs.and.rock]

I just finished reading a book with a "A Practical Guide to Buddhism" in the back of it. It was more of a question-answer format and I read it, and thought something very odd.

Mainly, the author was talking about the self, and detaching from the self. But if death is part of the human self, why did Buddha die if he was completely detached from the self? Or am I taking the very mystical approach to this?


Are you still attached to the self while being detached from it? You give up the suffering of the self, but death is still part of you, part of the self. I know death is not necessarily suffering, but if Buddha attained the non-self state of Nirvana, why was he still tied down to death? It's said that he was not a person anymore when he attained enlightenment. Was he still a person and he didn't feel that way?


Do you think death is part of the self or not? Is it escapable, or merely acceptable? Can you be part of the self and non-self at the same time, having no need to remind yourself who you are, but still having the humanly experience of death?  

[ZelRyu]

"The body, monks, is not self." The Buddha explained in his discourse on no-self that since the body is subject to disease and death, it cannot be the true self.

The detachment from self means realizing that no part of human existence (body, feeling, consciousness) is constant. Attachment to inconstant things brings suffering.

So, really, though detachment can't prevent the death of the body, the realization that death is inevitable is a step toward detachment from the self.  

[sex.drugs.and.rock]

So, one cannot be fully "detached," just detached from suffering. And the detachment from suffering is enlightenment, but not escaping one's immunity.

I guess I was thinking of a more literal detachment. I don't mean having a new body or anything, but overcoming the humanly figure. Sure, The Buddha still looked human, but he felt something very different.

So is it a state of mind or a state of being? Because it seems like just a state of mind.  

[Jungle Boots]

well, the buddha died while enlightened, and when he died while enlightened he attained nirvana. he was detached from samsara the reincarnation cycle.

essentially once he died his physical body and mind no longer existed so for all intents and purposes that death was the last and final detachment.  

[sex.drugs.and.rock]

I thought enlightenment was nirvana? Or can one only attain nirvana upon death?

Once he died his body was detached from the earth, breaking samsara, but where does his enlightened being go?  

[Chieftain Twilight]

well, i watched a Swedish film called "The Seventh Seal", which was of course christian-based... it was about a Swedish Knight who came back from the crusades to find the Black Plague ravaging Sweden. he encounters Death, and chalenges him to a game of Chess, saying that if he wins he can live. his reason for this is because he hasn't made Peace with himself yet, on the matter of God, Heaven, and Death.

well, near the end of the film, a family of performers who was traveling with the Knight and his friends, their names Joseph, Mary and baby son Michael (i know, fnny! xd ), decided to try to leave because Joseph could see Death playing with the Knight.

so, at one move till Mate, the Knight knocks over the pieces and says he doesn't remember where the were. Death says he remembers, and sets the pieces back up. this awards Joseph and Mary enough time to escape. Death Checkmates the Knight, and asks him if he gained by the delay. the Knight says he did, and Death is glad.

the moral of that story is that we cannot defeat Death, but we CAN defeat the FEAR of Death, and that the struggle that is Life can be justified by even just one act of Kindness in our lives. smile

as for Nirvana, and Enlightenment, i can't be certain. but i would venture to say that realizations such as Self-Given Purpose are a step in the right direction to Enlightenment, and that you cannot avoid Death. Buddhism never seemed to be about avoiding Death, in fact the concept of Death was found heavily throughout the religion. Buddhism is about ending Suffering, and releasing oneself from Samsara. accepting Death of the Body is an important part of that. smile