So, I held an AR-15 tonight.

[Valkyrie Hatter]

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n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

Recon_Ninja_985

n-n-Dimethyltryptamine

don't worry, it's not your fault.

the ar-15 is just a shitty rifle.

which is opinion based....


people who actually use them and it's record prove otherwise.

not opinion, fact.

awkward, fragile, inaccurate, unbalanced... the 'people' who use them outside of the country that derives massive funding from its use are rarely considered effective fighting forces, and those that do have a decent record are usually still tied up with the military industrial complex anyway.

I'm getting really damn sick of the "you only like it because you're American" line of bullshit. There's plenty of American weapons I hate, and several of them were frontline military weapons in their day. That said, the AR-15 gets a severely bum rap. They're accurate as ********. No mainline infantry weapon is more accurate than an M16. Every competition shooter worth his salt is shooting an AR-15 to win, an antique gun for the fun of it, or a $3000 custom bolt-action job because he's a sadistic ******** who loves the kind of competition that comes from being in the match rifle class. By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.
They're balanced quite well, if you get one with a reasonable, gov't-profile barrel. Mine's a match HBAR, it's a full three pounds heavier than the standard, and it's actually not bad for competition-style shooting, but it's s**t for fast target switching and run-and-gun like you'd find in combat or a 3-gun match.

It's not as fragile as most people think. I've been negligent with mine, not cleaning it for months on end and firing hundreds of rounds every week. I've never had a jam that wasn't the fault of a bad hand-load or my $10 magazines. Hell, I can't even remember the last time I cleaned it, and my last few hundred rounds have all been Wolf, and Wolf is notoriously dirty. Aside from a funny smell and unusually heavy recoil, there's been no change in operation. My gun will gobble any bullet you care to feed it (within weight restrictions for a 1:7 barrel) and not think twice about it.

Awkward is most certainly an opinion. I find them less awkward than most other rifles, and I've never handled one that felt notably better. I find all long guns to be inherently slightly awkward in that they need two hands, and I don't have a very strong support hand, but the AR is no worse than any other. Some people find it quite comfortable, others not so much. I'm just closer to the first group than the second. The buttstock is fantastic, however, as is the pistol grip. They both revolutionized the industry. All the controls are right where you need them, except the bolt release, but the workaround for that is to just slap the entire side of the receiver when you need it, and that works just fine. It's not ambidextrous standard, but it was designed fifty years ago, in the days of "7% of the market share? ******** 'em." To be honest, I have no idea what you're complaining about.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.  

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

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By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

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Valkyrie Hatter

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By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.  

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.  

[Valkyrie Hatter]

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?  

[Fresnel]

Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

The truly impressive part was that the kill was his SECOND shot. The first round crippled the bicycle the guy was riding on. He was only shot after he fell off the bike and picked up a rifle. xd

I've never heard that story before, so I can't say.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

The truly impressive part was that the kill was his SECOND shot. The first round crippled the bicycle the guy was riding on. He was only shot after he fell off the bike and picked up a rifle. xd

I've never heard that story before, so I can't say.

speaking of mounting long range s**t on m2's or otherwise putting s**t on stuff in which it's normally not originally intended.

I should probably mention some retarded s**t my platoon sergeant pulled just to see if it could be done. we took a gigantic as ******** thermal optic meant for a M2 machine gun and put it onto the top rail of an m4. the ******** took up almost the entire rail and added like 6 pounds to it. gonk  

[Fresnel]

Recon_Ninja_985

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

The truly impressive part was that the kill was his SECOND shot. The first round crippled the bicycle the guy was riding on. He was only shot after he fell off the bike and picked up a rifle. xd

I've never heard that story before, so I can't say.

speaking of mounting long range s**t on m2's or otherwise putting s**t on stuff in which it's normally not originally intended.

I should probably mention some retarded s**t my platoon sergeant pulled just to see if it could be done. we took a gigantic as ******** thermal optic meant for a M2 machine gun and put it onto the top rail of an m4. the ******** took up almost the entire rail and added like 6 pounds to it. gonk

HERP DURR.

Actually, have you seen the EOTech meant for the M2? The thing is so laughably small in scale with the giant ******** gun...  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

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Recon_Ninja_985

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

The truly impressive part was that the kill was his SECOND shot. The first round crippled the bicycle the guy was riding on. He was only shot after he fell off the bike and picked up a rifle. xd

I've never heard that story before, so I can't say.

speaking of mounting long range s**t on m2's or otherwise putting s**t on stuff in which it's normally not originally intended.

I should probably mention some retarded s**t my platoon sergeant pulled just to see if it could be done. we took a gigantic as ******** thermal optic meant for a M2 machine gun and put it onto the top rail of an m4. the ******** took up almost the entire rail and added like 6 pounds to it. gonk

HERP DURR.

Actually, have you seen the EOTech meant for the M2? The thing is so laughably small in scale with the giant ******** gun...

yep, I've seen red jacket's eotech mounted browning .30, .50BMG zip gun and i've seen an eotech mounted m2 somewhere else though.

it looks tiny on all of them  

[Whence it Flows]

Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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By NRA match rules, you could bring any standard issue military weapon or civilian counterpart. AK-47/74's, AUGs, SA-80s, FAMAS's, even Garands and M1903s (which are popular in the "******** it, I'mma just have fun today" crowd), any one of them is legal. The winner always has an AR.

Right up till someone brings out an M14 variant.

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

Yes, because you disable the full automatic function, mount a scope, and then use the hand wheels on the T&E assembly of the tripod to make minute adjustments to the shot, which is then unaffected by breathing, trigger squeeze, heartbeat, or any number of things that could happen with the shooter.  

[Fresnel]

Pripyat Dawn

Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

Yes, because you disable the full automatic function, mount a scope, and then use the hand wheels on the T&E assembly of the tripod to make minute adjustments to the shot, which is then unaffected by breathing, trigger squeeze, heartbeat, or any number of things that could happen with the shooter.

...and hit a moving target with it.  

[Recon_Ninja_985]

Fresnel

Pripyat Dawn

Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

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Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

Yes, because you disable the full automatic function, mount a scope, and then use the hand wheels on the T&E assembly of the tripod to make minute adjustments to the shot, which is then unaffected by breathing, trigger squeeze, heartbeat, or any number of things that could happen with the shooter.

...and hit a moving target with it.

not to mention the courier was 12 yrs old or so, so the target was probably a bit under 2/3 of an adult's size  

[Whence it Flows]

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Pripyat Dawn

Valkyrie Hatter

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Valkyrie Hatter

Fresnel

Also completely legal, and surprisingly, .308 has inferior ballistics at range. The heavier weight doesn't offset the larger cross-section, and it's affected more by wind than a .223. I had a friend who brought a brand new M1A National Match to the range for several months. It was no better a rifle than anything else we had, it had a slower mag change time, and it exploded spectacularly one day. The first shot sounded like a ten pounder sounding off. The second shot cracked the stock in half, jammed the mechanism with the bolt locked open, and flowered the magazine. Apparently, he'd been mixing powders, and loaded those two with fast-burning pistol flake.

Yet I've never heard of anyone popping off a VC's head from over a mile away with an M16 rifle.

The champion Marine sniper and his M21 along with his comemorative featherweight M1A rifle still stands.

His shot was only beaten about 35 years later by a guy with a McMillian TAC-50 and that guy was succeeded by a man with an Accuracy International .338 Lapua rifle.

Umm... Hathcock made his record shot with a Ma Deuce. The commemorative is the "whitefeather", it was his nickname. He generally used an M21, but he knew he needed the range for that mission, so be brought an M2 with a custom scope mount on it.

I'm speechless. He sniped a guy from a mile away with a ******** 90 pound heavy machine gun? Only a champ could that.

I stand corrected and that amount of epicness is too awesome for words.

Didn't he also kill 18 VC with one magazine's worth of ammo with an M21 while they were crossing some shallow river with him hiding behind a dirt embankment or was that someone else?

Yes, because you disable the full automatic function, mount a scope, and then use the hand wheels on the T&E assembly of the tripod to make minute adjustments to the shot, which is then unaffected by breathing, trigger squeeze, heartbeat, or any number of things that could happen with the shooter.

...and hit a moving target with it.

I'm just saying that it's not like he free-gunned the s**t.