Paganism under your Parent's Roof

[Morgandria]

broken_bleeding_angel

True, but it would also have to be the same from the other end. Like if said parents smoke in the house, then would it not be hypocritical of them to complain about smoke in the house?

Yes., it is hypocritical, but....being that it is the parent's home in the first place, they still have the right to set their own rules for those who live under their roof. If they do not like the sage smoke, then they have the right to ask the child not to burn sage. The child lives under their hospitality - it may suck, but until the child is legally an adult & pays for their lodging, or lives elsewhere, they don't have the right to violate the parent's wishes regarding activities in the home. To insist upon doing things you've been asked not to do when it isn't your home, is rude, and ungracious.  

[Yanueh]

Morgandria

I think if you know your parents don't want you doing something in the house, and you keep doing it behind their back, it's wrong.

What if child is looking up material on critical thinking and deprogramming oneself to free their minds from a potentially dangerous belief system?

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To insist upon doing things you've been asked not to do when it isn't your home, is rude, and ungracious.

What if it's a case where the only reason you're living with your parents is because you have nowhere else to go?  

[blindfaith^_^]

Yanueh

What if child is looking up material on critical thinking and deprogramming oneself to free their minds from a potentially dangerous belief system?

I'm not answering for Morg but I figure I'd throw in my two cents here.

Your wording "potentially dangerous" leave a lot to be desired. How is the situation dangerous? Does the child just not agree with the religion or would the faith system actually inhibit their lives? How would the faith inhibit their lives? There's a big difference between being isolated from the outside world and not being able to eat meat on Fridays. What I think is right in these situations is largely different. It seems like the potentially part makes the hypothetical a slippery slope, which may be what was intended. I think each situation would be different.

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What if it's a case where the only reason you're living with your parents is because you have nowhere else to go?

All the more reason what one is doing is ungracious. They've agreed to shelter one in a time of need and one has disrespected their requests.

I rented in an apartment that didn't allow pets. I really wanted a pet, but I didn't get one because the building owner, did not allow it. If I would do this for a stranger, then why would I not respect a request from my parents?  

[Esiris]

blindfaith^_^

I'm not answering for Morg but I figure I'd throw in my two cents here.

Your wording "potentially dangerous" leave a lot to be desired. How is the situation dangerous? Does the child just not agree with the religion or would the faith system actually inhibit their lives? How would the faith inhibit their lives? There's a big difference between being isolated from the outside world and not being able to eat meat on Fridays.

How about being raised in a household where the parent's religion is used to be verbally abusive to the kids?

It's a slight shift in topic- but religious-based bullying against the LGBT community makes the suicide rate higher for teens who are LGBT. If someone's spirituality and sexuality are linked- then it could be really hurtful to them.

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All the more reason what one is doing is ungracious. They've agreed to shelter one in a time of need and one has disrespected their requests.

I rented in an apartment that didn't allow pets. I really wanted a pet, but I didn't get one because the building owner, did not allow it. If I would do this for a stranger, then why would I not respect a request from my parents?

I think there's a difference between an adult of their free will signing a contract and being born into a situation.

It gets even more difficult depending on the kind of abuse- emotional/psychological abuse doesn't have the same resources of physical abuse.

On average- it takes an adult woman 7 times in and out of shelters before she can finally break free of an abusive partner. That's an adult with more resources and more responsibilities than a kid. The courts don't treat emotionally terrorizing your kids the same way they treat beating them- and religion can be a part of that abuse even if there aren't any physical marks.  

[Yanueh]

blindfaith^_^

Your wording "potentially dangerous" leave a lot to be desired. How is the situation dangerous? Does the child just not agree with the religion or would the faith system actually inhibit their lives?

The latter. Say a child lives with parents who believe the world is going to end in 2012, for example, and lives in constant fear and terror. The child wants to look up information that debunks it, but the parents don't want the child looking it up because they think it's all a conspiracy planted by Them. Or a child questioning his/her sexuality or gender identity desperately needs answers, but their trans/homophobic parents won't allow them to accesses the resources they need because of religious-based bigotry.

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I rented in an apartment that didn't allow pets. I really wanted a pet, but I didn't get one because the building owner, did not allow it. If I would do this for a stranger, then why would I not respect a request from my parents?

A dog could potentially damage the apartment. Practicing one's religion, if one is responsible, probably isn't going to cause any harm to the house. Of course, if you must remain hidden you should avoid using anything that could potentially draw attention. However, I have very little respect for people who interfere with a person's freedom of religion.

Also, being forbidden from practicing a religion isn't comparable to not being allowed to have a dog. It's comparable to... being forbidden to practice a religion. Last I checked, it's illegal for landlords and the like to discriminate based on religion.  

[The Starling]

My father always said as long as I live under his roof, he won't have any of 'that s**t' going on.

I still practice, I mean, it's not like he can stop me- and it's my right to practice whatever spiritual path I want.

My father is not religious, but he was raised in a 'beat the f*****t, burn the witch' sort of family, and though he doesn't think there is anything wrong with homosexuals they still make him slightly uncomfortable, and he's scared of witches and pagans- He can't help that, it's how he was raised.

I know my father loves me, Pagan or not, and when it boils down to it I don't think he cares what I do as long as I'm safe doing it.

That is my case I know- I also know that for some, hate is stronger than love, and perhaps my advise wouldn't work so well. So for those of you in that situation I offer you this-

Don't let hate and ignorance bully you into submission. Practice as you please, but think of yourself as well; do not go out of your way to prove a point by coming fully out of the broom closet to your parents. Don't try to change the ignorance in their heads just yet- for now practice in secret and when you are old enough to distance yourself, fight your battle then if you still choose to do so.  

[blindfaith^_^]

Esiris

How about being raised in a household where the parent's religion is used to be verbally abusive to the kids?

It's a slight shift in topic- but religious-based bullying against the LGBT community makes the suicide rate higher for teens who are LGBT. If someone's spirituality and sexuality are linked- then it could be really hurtful to them.

Verbal abuse, mental abuse, and spiritual abuse when done intentionally or unintentionally break one from the obligations of hospitality. If one can not leave or has taken all the measures to leave available and is waiting for income, processing, aging out I would consider that child or adult in survivor mode. What he or she needs to do to stay as whole and healthy as possible should be available to him or her. Barring very extreme actions like possibly murder of the care giver when not physically threatened, there's very little morally I can think of that I would frown on or my particular faith view would frown on.

For me we are talking about two completely different scenarios. There is one where a parent or guardian acts as they should and places down boundaries which they feel are appropriate. I don't think asking a child not to light candles, burn incense, or bring in certain kinds of books is out of a parent or guardians' rights. I don't agree with banning books, but I think people have the right to ask their child not to bring it in their house.

The other scenerio which you and Yanueh are mentioning is different. These aren't the same kind of people with the same motivations or at least their motivations are warped. They are owed different considerations, most of which are to a lesser degree.

On the LBGT tangent for the moment: I can't help but think that raising someone to believe in a soul and a good and bad place for souls and then damning a child's soul for something they can't help has to qualify as something stronger than verbal abuse. That person really believes they will suffer for all eternity and on top of that this short time they could be enjoying life is made hellish by people mocking, belittling and insulting them.

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I think there's a difference between an adult of their free will signing a contract and being born into a situation.

It gets even more difficult depending on the kind of abuse- emotional/psychological abuse doesn't have the same resources of physical abuse.

On average- it takes an adult woman 7 times in and out of shelters before she can finally break free of an abusive partner. That's an adult with more resources and more responsibilities than a kid. The courts don't treat emotionally terrorizing your kids the same way they treat beating them- and religion can be a part of that abuse even if there aren't any physical marks.

I acknowledge your points, particularly in cases of abuse of any variety.

My remarks were meant more for a more healthy living environment. People have circumstances they don't like and couldn't help/can't help/ didn't choose/wouldn't choose. It's not fair and it's not right, but it is how things are. Particularly for children, coming to terms with this is very hard. There's that first realization as one grows up and can start to look at things critically. Immediately after acknowledging this information, there's a push to deal with it. When one is a place in his or her life, where he or she questions the tools provided to his or her parents, it's not uncommon to reject them because they are part of a world and system that one has just recognized is unfair and treats people (maybe the youth in question) badly.

If the parents are not not abusing the child, then one should remain civil during this exploration and attempt to respect boundaries parents place on their exploration. No one can tell one person how another is allowed to think. Religion in particular isn't something one can force into a person's mind or heart or soul.

I just think disallowing ritual to take place in a home, reading materials in the home, or to disallow certain symbols in the home are discouraging techniques, but they don't change one's faith.

Yanueh

A dog could potentially damage the apartment. Practicing one's religion, if one is responsible, probably isn't going to cause any harm to the house. Of course, if you must remain hidden you should avoid using anything that could potentially draw attention. However, I have very little respect for people who interfere with a person's freedom of religion.

Also, being forbidden from practicing a religion isn't comparable to not being allowed to have a dog. It's comparable to... being forbidden to practice a religion. Last I checked, it's illegal for landlords and the like to discriminate based on religion.

The religion wouldn't hurt the building no. Ritual and practice might. Essential oils are hard to get off some wall paint varieties. Ritual circles depending on how they are made may damage floors. Candles are potentially dangerous. Incense when used often can leave the same kind of residue as smoking and people with asthma or other breathing problems are sensitive to them.

If your practice includes raising animals, plants, any kind of blood sacrifice, or lots of active motion: I can see how this may damage a space as much as a pet.  

[Ravynne Sidhe]

For me I never grew up in a religious environment and there really has been no actual rule against Paganism nor witchcraft. The only rule we have prohibiting a religious practice is actually against practicing Christianity. ( both my parents are atheist...more so my dad. My mom...I have no clue)

That being said I have a nice collection of witchcraft books and enp books growing in my cabinet and closet (which needs to be cleaned and organized before my grandma comes next Tuesday Dx) so even if my mom discovered them and flipped out for no apparent reason, she has no authority over what to do with them.

Yes she may be my mother but she has no jurisdiction because....her name's not on the deed. Hell her name isn't on anything that she owns. From the deed, to the clothes she buys to the car she drives, everything is under my dad's name. My own money is under my name. So really, dad has final say. And me and my dad have talked about paganism in the past, he doesn't mind it. So if he finds out I'm a practicing pagan, he won't care.

Now if I were a Christian and my mom discovered a Bible in my room, then yes my dad would tell me to throw out the Bible because Christianity isn't allowed.  

[Yanueh]

blindfaith^_^

Verbal abuse, mental abuse, and spiritual abuse when done intentionally or unintentionally break one from the obligations of hospitality. If one can not leave or has taken all the measures to leave available and is waiting for income, processing, aging out I would consider that child or adult in survivor mode. What he or she needs to do to stay as whole and healthy as possible should be available to him or her.

Exactly. And ritual can be very therapeutic and can give someone as safe haven.

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I don't think asking a child not to light candles, burn incense, or bring in certain kinds of books is out of a parent or guardians' rights.

That's fine with me, too. I'm talking about the kinds of people who put their foot down on any ritual activity whatsoever.

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I think there's a difference between an adult of their free will signing a contract and being born into a situation.

There is. When you sign a contract, you're going into it of your own free will. With the latter, you have no choice.

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It gets even more difficult depending on the kind of abuse- emotional/psychological abuse doesn't have the same resources of physical abuse.

True. And since the evidence is largely invisible, it's harder - if not impossible - to prove.

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My remarks were meant more for a more healthy living environment.

It would have been helpful if you'd specified so in the first place. confused

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The religion wouldn't hurt the building no. Ritual and practice might. Essential oils are hard to get off some wall paint varieties. Ritual circles depending on how they are made may damage floors. Candles are potentially dangerous. Incense when used often can leave the same kind of residue as smoking and people with asthma or other breathing problems are sensitive to them.

If your practice includes raising animals, plants, any kind of blood sacrifice, or lots of active motion: I can see how this may damage a space as much as a pet.

Which is why I recommend doing things that aren't going to leave any trace and are low-risk factors if you have to remain under the radar.