dream catchers and snares

[whiporwill-o]

So, I read in a wikipedia article that to most Native Americans the use of a dream catcher is "an undesirable form of cultural appropriation" if a person is not of their culture, according to a man named Philip Jenkins. Do any of you know any Native Americans that feel this way? (It also said that many nations of natives adopted them from the Ojibwa during the Pan-Indian Movement, but I'm not sure if that appropriation would matter or not because it didn't say.)

I really like dream catchers and had plans to make on as authentically as possible, but if it would be offensive and wrong of me to do so then I will refrain. If that is the case, would there be a way for me to come up with my own charm with similar function and it not be misappropriation? I really like the idea of the "spiderweb" that catches nightmares, but as I said, I don't wish to offend any cultures.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I'd make the effort to read into what the dream catcher means in the context of whichever culture it is that uses them. (Ojubwa, you say?) Read all of the lore regarding it. What they're upset about is that it's taken from the context of their mythology and culture and everything else and sold off in new age shops.

I don't know if it's appropriate or even possible for someone not of that culture or cultures to use (or make) a dream catcher. I suppose you'll find out one way or the other when you look into them.

I had one when I was a kid. I hung it up for a month and then had a crisis of conscience about whatever poor entity might caught in it, so I destroyed and burned it.  

[whiporwill-o]

Sanguina Cruenta

I'd make the effort to read into what the dream catcher means in the context of whichever culture it is that uses them. (Ojubwa, you say?) Read all of the lore regarding it. What they're upset about is that it's taken from the context of their mythology and culture and everything else and sold off in new age shops.

I don't know if it's appropriate or even possible for someone not of that culture or cultures to use (or make) a dream catcher. I suppose you'll find out one way or the other when you look into them.

I had one when I was a kid. I hung it up for a month and then had a crisis of conscience about whatever poor entity might caught in it, so I destroyed and burned it.

do you know of any good references? also, if they are made to catch nightmares, how would an entity get caught? or is that covered in the lore?  

[Esiris]

Sanguina Cruenta

I don't know if it's appropriate or even possible for someone not of that culture or cultures to use (or make) a dream catcher. I suppose you'll find out one way or the other when you look into them.

I was taught to make them by someone from the local tribe. It was a one-on-one lesson and he was acting as a mentor to me- so I think it is possible in the same way that it's possible for someone who's white to practice Vodou.

Does that make sense?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

whiporwill-o

do you know of any good references? also, if they are made to catch nightmares, how would an entity get caught? or is that covered in the lore?

No idea. Never looked into it. Sorry.

Esiris: Oh probably. It might even be easier than that, so long as you know what you're doing and why. But I don't know, which is why I phrased it that way.  

[Esiris]

Sanguina Cruenta

Esiris: Oh probably. It might even be easier than that, so long as you know what you're doing and why. But I don't know, which is why I phrased it that way.

Yeah- that makes sense too.
I guess there are other things you could make- like maybe using a fishing net and fishing floats and hang cool drift wood and beach glass and stuff?  

[doistu]

You could just create a web entirely separately from the idea of a dream catcher?
You could create a web and infuse it with your intentions?  

[kage no neko]

I was taught that you hang it up and it catches nightmares, and then you put it in the sun for a bit and the sun releases anything in it. It'd be no good to have a net that's full and can't catch anything anymore, you know?

I don't know what the real purpose of one is, but... it makes me feel better, haha. I've been wanting to make my own also.  

[Morgandria]

They are Ojibwe in origin, but have spread through a lot of Northern and Eastern tribes as 'Native' practices began to blend in some cases. You don't see them as much in Southern or Western nations.

I haven't run into that idea of the use of dreamcatchers by non-Natives as misappropriation. It's a little different, maybe, for making them - they do have a proper method of construction, and it is really hard to do so without being a part of a Native religious culture. Which isn't to say you have to be Native - just that you should be a member of the culture in an active way.

I can see being frustrated by non-Natives making and selling dreamcatchers, but I'm having a hard time groking the 'don't use them unless you're Native' argument.

The web symbolism is deliberate. Spider Woman brought the sun back to the Anishnaabe by capturing it in her woven lodge - even now spiderwebs in the morning reflect the sun off the dew on the weave. Dreamcatchers are a symbol of how she continues to care for the People - the bad dreams are caught in her web and burn off in the morning sun. Since dreams are the way in which Spirit communicates with the Anishnaabe, and lets them know they are on the right way in life, it's important to keep that medium from being blocked or taken over by negative forces. The only things that are caught in the web are bad dreams. They are destroyed by the morning sun. Nothing stays permanently attached to the dreamcatcher itself.

I've never known or seen a negative reaction to giving a non-Native a dreamcatcher. I've made and given several as gifts to friends all over the place. They're a very identifiable symbol of Native Peoples here in Canada, at least, and something distinct they are proud to show and share with the world. The ones you can buy in shops are tricky, though - I'd want to know mine was Native-made, and not sweatshop labour from China.

I don't see why you couldn't create a webbed patterned object for similar reasons, but instead connected to a different religious path - if you could make it work within that path's lore.  

[kage no neko]

Ah. smile Yay for a history lesson. Thanks.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Morgandria

I don't see why you couldn't create a webbed patterned object for similar reasons, but instead connected to a different religious path - if you could make it work within that path's lore.

Isn't there a Native story from another culture wherein Coyote invents nets to catch a fish? Or something?

Loki invents nets too. And then gets caught in one.  

[whiporwill-o]

thanks for all the info and input, everyone heart

sorry i haven't been able to come in sooner. i live in alabama, usa. my area was hit pretty bad by some storms and we've been without power and water for a while. we finally were able to get a generator. we were really lucky with minimal damage and no deaths in my immediate family. sadly, the surrounding areas were not so fortunate sad  

[TheStarlessSkye]

There are two in the house. One in the living room hung on the knob of the cupboard above the TV and one above my bed. I don't use or work with them both at all. They're just there, really.

@Whiporwill: I'm sorry to hear that.  

[whiporwill-o]

Azareas Aquarinus

There are two in the house. One in the living room hung on the knob of the cupboard above the TV and one above my bed. I don't use or work with them both at all. They're just there, really.

why bother having them then?

Quote:

@Whiporwill: I'm sorry to hear that.

thanks, we're ok. we just got our electricity back about an hour ago.  

[TheStarlessSkye]

whiporwill-o

Azareas Aquarinus

There are two in the house. One in the living room hung on the knob of the cupboard above the TV and one above my bed. I don't use or work with them both at all. They're just there, really.

why bother having them then?

Quote:

@Whiporwill: I'm sorry to hear that.

thanks, we're ok. we just got our electricity back about an hour ago.

I feel like the one in my room has to be there. I've tried taking it down, but something's stopping me. So I don't know.

The one in the living room is useless, really. Probably just for decorative purposes.

That's good.